Keysight Scopmonth, Taxes when winning. Marketing-Bullshit?

[zapta]

Companies send me free gear all the time, why Keysight can't do that to with the winners?, one word, lawyers.

More accurately, governments and legislators in certain countries.

[Towger]

Looking through all the documentation I can certainly see why it looks as if the OP has to pay US tax and German VAT.

Why would an EU citizen need to fill in multiple US tax documents.

At previous pointed out, there would be no problem if the scopes here sent from within the EC or from local distributors in other countries.

If this cannot be done, can winners pick up the scopes directly from Keysight in Malaysia, or get them sent to a friend there?

[rx8pilot]

Unless we offered everyone a $1 scope... 

Sales will certainly go up. Profits will likely suffer a bit, diminishing the ability and need for any future promotions.

[nctnico]

A simple way around it is to sell a scope for $1 to the winners.

I have a number of customers in Germany and many other countries. They laugh at this, hold the package and investigate. When they find that you are a fraud, you get in big trouble, one of which is an immediate band on your shipments. Somehow, I don't think Keysight is willing to throw legitimate German business down the drain for a freebie promotional scope.

Please keep paying attention! VAT and customs charges are not a problem because those can be handled by importing through a local dealer or office. Once imported  there are the income and gambling taxes which may need to be dealt with. Since it is a free market companies are free to price their gear however they want or offer discounts the way they like. Many products have student, hobbiest, university, etc pricing.

[Howardlong]

What do I have to enter in the 1099-MISC when I take it?
What is "line 21 of your 1040"?
How High will the tax be(percentage), how can I calculate it?

You don't owe the IRS a penny, you won't need to fill out those forms. You are not a US citizen, you don't live in the US, you don't have a US passport, you were not born in the US, the scope is not going to be in the US. The IRS is completely irrelevant to you. Forget the form.

[Towger]

Keysight will not send the scope until he sends them the completed forms back. Have a read of the document they sent him.

[Howardlong]

A simple way around it is to sell a scope for $1 to the winners.

I have a number of customers in Germany and many other countries. They laugh at this, hold the package and investigate. When they find that you are a fraud, you get in big trouble, one of which is an immediate band on your shipments. Somehow, I don't think Keysight is willing to throw legitimate German business down the drain for a freebie promotional scope.

That's correct, while it may be de rigeur for Chinese sellers to falsify commercial invoices, it's not helpful to presume a seller will be willing to falsify a declaration. You might think you're getting away with it, but the last thing any company wants, big or small, is a tax investigation.

[mos6502]

Keysight will not send the scope until he sends them the completed forms back. Have a read of the document they sent him.

That's ... kafkaesque.

[Armxnian]

If you have to pay income tax, then you have to include income on your tax return. That's actually bad if you receive financial aid for school. So you will get less, if any aid from the gov. even though you didn't actually make any more money. The only thing that should really count as income is if you win the lottery. I don't see how a scope helps you pay for rent or food. You are still as financially dependent on the gov. to pay some of your tuition as before. To get the scope you have to pay taxes to get it, so you lose value there. Plus if you sell it, there is potential to lose further money on the actual value of the scope. If you receive significant aid for two semesters, winning the scope can actually cause you to lose money. The amount of loans you can take can also be affected.

I'd love to win the scope, but there seems to be risk involved. Risk that cannot be fully calculated from a FAFSA perspective.

[Howardlong]

Keysight will not send the scope until he sends them the completed forms back. Have a read of the document they sent him.

W8BEN is the only form for him to fill out as a non-Us cotizen residing outside the US.
https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/fw8ben.pdf

That's ... kafkaesque.

Indeed.

[nctnico]

Keysight will not send the scope until he sends them the completed forms back. Have a read of the document they sent him.

That's ... kafkaesque.

I agree. It doesn't make sense to ship from a different country (VAT area) because of the VAT and customs charges private persons are subjected to.

[joesixpack]

Hello,

What do I have to enter in the 1099-MISC when I take it?
What is "line 21 of your 1040"?
How High will the tax be(percentage), how can I calculate it?

I called Keysight-US 3 times, they never talked about these forms, they did not help at all. I know they do not have to, but for sure they have people who know about that and could give me some advice, at least via phone.

Thank you very much.

Sebastian

Did you win a scope or are you just curious? 

The above is only applicable to a US citizen.  I'm not sure what the tax ramifications would be for you.  I could only find one article on the subject, where a business in the US ran a sweepstakes on Facebook and was giving away a $19.95 product.  A person in Germany won, and the package got held by customs.  The business paid the $300 tax to keep the winner happy. 

I would suspect that if you won, someone at Keysight would contact you directly and answer your questions. 

[rfeecs]

Hello,

What do I have to enter in the 1099-MISC when I take it?
What is "line 21 of your 1040"?
How High will the tax be(percentage), how can I calculate it?

I called Keysight-US 3 times, they never talked about these forms, they did not help at all. I know they do not have to, but for sure they have people who know about that and could give me some advice, at least via phone.

Thank you very much.

Sebastian

Welcome to the nightmare of US tax bureaucracy.

You don't fill out a 1099 form. 

According the your instructions, you fill out W-8BEN.  That's where you certify you are a resident of Germany and therefore do not have any US tax withheld.

There is enough money involved here that you might want to consult a professional if you have questions.

The forms are mainly so KeySight can cover their ass with the IRS.

[Keysight DanielBogdanoff]

Hello,

What do I have to enter in the 1099-MISC when I take it?
What is "line 21 of your 1040"?
How High will the tax be(percentage), how can I calculate it?

I called Keysight-US 3 times, they never talked about these forms, they did not help at all. I know they do not have to, but for sure they have people who know about that and could give me some advice, at least via phone.

Thank you very much.

Sebastian

Hi Sebastian, you have our number and our e-mail. If you have any questions about forms, etc., please follow up on those communications.  Thanks!

[Macbeth]

With the extreme level of whinging and playing the race card, I suspect "Sebastian" is nothing more than a 13 year old script kiddie who hit the jackpot by easily scripting plenty of applications in numerous names and easy throwaway email addresses. He didn't count on having to give a real ID and having more than his pocket money allowance to temporarily pay the import VAT while his full intention, not being an electronics engineer, was to flip it on ebay and come out with $10,000+ pure profit.

Of course I may be wrong, but his tantrums are ridiculous. Surely Keysight can simply ban him (like check for a few duplicate IP addresses, or known TOR/VPN exit nodes?) for entering the comp in bad faith.

[hendorog]

meh. He just freaked out when he saw the legal docco he had to sign as well as the required US tax document.
Which is understandable as it is not clear exactly what he is committing to when he signs it.

Obviously talking to Keysight and doing some research/seeking advice is all he needs to do.

[joeybagodonuts]

I read somewhere recently that they send the prizes from the local representatives, so may be no tax ?
would like to know if it is true !
that's why only countries where they have representatives are allowed to play the game.

Daniel has said it time and time again: prize winner is ONLY responsible for their state/country of origin's taxes, so ONLY if you live in the USA do you have to deal with US taxes.

http://www.ey.com/GL/en/Services/Tax/Worldwide-VAT--GST-and-Sales-Tax-Guide---Rates
Isreal- 18%, Denmark- 25%, Finland- 24%--- so by golly, Germany's 19% doesn't seem all that bad!

So Sebastian, it's not just you. Every single winner will have to deal with taxes, and you aren't alone in that. The taxes are still FAR less than what you'd pay for a new scope.

[FlyingHacker]

This whole tax thing is pretty normal for winning prizes. It does become difficult when you win an item vs cash. Winning cash you just give half of it (or whatever) to the overlords. Winning an item you end up having to pay the taxes yourself.

Many people winning many types of gifts are unable to keep the item due to taxes.

[rx8pilot]

Ill pay the VAT, fly to Germany and bring it back in my checked luggage with fingers crossed.

[TheSteve]

Hello,

@ Daniel, why do think I called three times in the US Headquarter? I wait for your email or call from a Keysight specialist on taxes. I hope the germans (Keysight Stuttgart) help me on monday. If you have a “Dave style solution”, you can call me 24/7, I also have a “dumpster”, I unlock it for you any time. I have a very nice dumpster. ;-)

@Macbeth, I got two patents on my name,... .

I hope someone has more knowledge about the taxes, or knows a friend I can call, please post it. Thank you very much.

Sebastian

P.S. 19% is still 3382€, I think I may find an arrangement with someone who is interested, but no one confirmed the 19%. Under no circumstances I let Keysight ruin my financial situation.

If you refuse the package and send it back you won't owe anything, so there is no way they can ruin your financial situation.

[hendorog]

Ill pay the VAT, fly to Germany and bring it back in my checked luggage with fingers crossed.

If you were able to get a tax invoice and a receipt for the VAT you should be able to claim it back at the border.

[ProBang2]

This whole tax thing is pretty normal for winning prizes. It does become difficult when you win an item vs cash. Winning cash you just give half of it (or whatever) to the overlords. Winning an item you end up having to pay the taxes yourself.

Not here. In Germany is not such thing like tax on winning prizes. Example:
You win 10 000 000 € in a lottery. You get the whole 10 millions. Giving to the overlords: NOTHING.
In the next years you make interest income, let´s say 400 000 € a year. On this you have to pay tax (25%), never for the 10 milion of the winning.
For winning an item it is the same.
Paying somewhat for a winning prize is absolute uncommon in Germany.

[FlyingHacker]

Not here. In Germany is not such thing like tax on winning prizes. Example:
You win 10 000 000 € in a lottery. You get the whole 10 millions. Giving to the overlords: NOTHING.
In the next years you make interest income, let´s say 400 000 € a year. On this you have to pay tax (25%), never for the 10 milion of the winning.
For winning an item it is the same.
Paying somewhat for a winning prize is absolute uncommon in Germany.

Very interesting indeed. I did not know that.

It is sadly par for the course here in the U.S..

[TheSteve]

There is no tax paid on lotteries in Canada either. However if I enter a contest that is based outside of Canada and I win something that will need to be imported into the country it will be taxable.

[CustomEngineerer]

This thread reminds me of the fun that was https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/my-ebay-hantek-buying-hell/