Keysight Scopmonth, Taxes when winning. Marketing-Bullshit?

[mstoer]

In Canada the law requires that all contests include a skill testing question. This has something to do with gaming laws:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skill_testing_question

Often the company holding the contest will even give you the answer or hint you to it if it isn't already obvious enough.  The questions are often something like  what is  30/5 + 4  ... yes, that simple.

they could make the question "Work out how much tax you have to pay" that way killing two birds with one stone.

That would be easy, since in Canada there are no taxes on winnings

[Keysight DanielBogdanoff]

This is a challenge any time something expensive is given away. It's cool of Keysight to do this but maybe they should have targeted a slightly lower end scope to give away 30 of?

This is a big learning for us, we didn't realize it would be so tough!  Also, we're offering to substitute a lower cost scope to winners if they want.

[firworks]

This is a challenge any time something expensive is given away. It's cool of Keysight to do this but maybe they should have targeted a slightly lower end scope to give away 30 of?

This is a big learning for us, we didn't realize it would be so tough!  Also, we're offering to substitute a lower cost scope to winners if they want.

Very understandable, giveaways especially when you include multiple states and countries can be incredibly complicated. I've been researching it to do some simple low $ tool giveaways and even that's not a small task. There are some companies out there who specialize in managing giveaways that you can work with who will know the laws and how to manage things. It might be a good idea if you do giveaways in the future to consider working with them. I've been contemplating giving Rafflecopter a try since I see them used a lot on internet giveaways.

Still, thanks for doing it though! Scope month was an incredibly ambitious and generous thing to jump head first into. I'm still holding out hope for the last few drawings. 

[Brumby]

This is a challenge any time something expensive is given away. It's cool of Keysight to do this but maybe they should have targeted a slightly lower end scope to give away 30 of?

This is a big learning for us, we didn't realize it would be so tough!  Also, we're offering to substitute a lower cost scope to winners if they want.

Winning in Australia isn't a problem at all!  (Hint)

... but I don't know what the problems are that the promoter needs to deal with.

[HackedFridgeMagnet]

Winning in Australia isn't a problem at all!  (Hint)

... but I don't know what the problems are that the promoter needs to deal with.

Yeah would be interested to know.

[Keysight DanielBogdanoff]

Winning in Australia isn't a problem at all!  (Hint)

... but I don't know what the problems are that the promoter needs to deal with.

Yeah would be interested to know.

Australia is pretty stringent about how you run and register the program in each territory/state (not country, blarg). That's about all I know other than it's a major hassle and it's possible other countries would be excluded just to include a specific territory. I pushed back on our team to get Australia included, but it wasn't possible for this year.

[Howardlong]

but it wasn't possible for this year.

Whoa, someone's got thick skin!

[Brumby]

... but it wasn't possible for this year.

There's a light of hope in that statement...... 

[SkyMaster]

... and it's possible other countries would be excluded just to include a specific territory...

I read that Canadians could participate, except for the people living in the province of Quebec   

[Keysight DanielBogdanoff]

... and it's possible other countries would be excluded just to include a specific territory...

I read that Canadians could participate, except for the people living in the province of Quebec   

Quebec is just crazy...

[AwArD_RzD]

... and it's possible other countries would be excluded just to include a specific territory...

I read that Canadians could participate, except for the people living in the province of Quebec   

Quebec is just crazy...

I live in Quebec and i can confirm... Crazy crazy. One of my friend who lived in the USA did a contest with is business 9-10 year ago, when he tried to comply with the Quebec law he said he needed another lawyer only to be sure to comply at 100% with the law and i think he said he needed to pay like 30% of the total prize only to register (even if there no winner there), don't know if that changed over the year but every time i see a contest Quebec is excluded..... the weird thing is, if there a contest in Quebec any province can participate... i can say our Loto-quebec lottery winner are always in the other province too ...

Edit: http://contests.about.com/od/sweepstakes101/f/VoidinQuebec.htm this explain the situation and it's 10% of the total prize so 50 000$ (maybe more since it's US dollar)  only to register the contest....

[Steve Wayne]

I'm not  a tax lawyer, but in the USA, aren't prize winnings taxed as regular income?

So if you are in a 40% tax bracket (Federal + State income tax), then if you win a $30,000 scope, you owe $12,000 in taxes.

Still a bargain for a $30,000 scope if you were ever willing to pay that much in the first place.

If you're in the 30-40% tax bracket, you sure as hell should to be able to afford the tax on this windfall. 

[Howardlong]

I'm not  a tax lawyer, but in the USA, aren't prize winnings taxed as regular income?

So if you are in a 40% tax bracket (Federal + State income tax), then if you win a $30,000 scope, you owe $12,000 in taxes.

Still a bargain for a $30,000 scope if you were ever willing to pay that much in the first place.

If you're in the 30-40% tax bracket, you sure as hell should to be able to afford the tax on this windfall.

As a matter of idle interest, if this is going to a bona fide business, would it not be tax deductible in the US?

[Flanbix]

I received an email from Keysight telling me that I won a MSOX3104T (because it was turned down).
I will try to post the development. I am a bit like nihtila, not willing to pay the full TAX on the scope but happy to pay for a lower end scope if possible.
I contacted KS, will see what they say, ideally if there is no taxes and I can pick it up from Farnell it will be great. 

[Brumby]

I'm not  a tax lawyer, but in the USA, aren't prize winnings taxed as regular income?

So if you are in a 40% tax bracket (Federal + State income tax), then if you win a $30,000 scope, you owe $12,000 in taxes.

Still a bargain for a $30,000 scope if you were ever willing to pay that much in the first place.

If you're in the 30-40% tax bracket, you sure as hell should to be able to afford the tax on this windfall.

As a matter of idle interest, if this is going to a bona fide business, would it not be tax deductible in the US?

Hmmm.... I'm no tax accountant - and I'm in Australia, but I'll take a punt and say .... No.

Tax deductions are for expenses - that is money you paid to buy stuff that enables you to generate taxable income.  Nothing was paid for the scope.

If, however, you wished to take the approach of 'Well, I had to pay tax to get this thing!  Doesn't that count as an expense?' - then my answer is unchanged.  Why?  Because the scope (value) is counted as income and tax is payable on that.  To then try and claim that tax as an expense would mean that EVERY business (and possibly every individual) could claim that income tax is a necessary expense in the business of generating income and therefore count it as a deduction.

I can't see that flying with any country's tax department.

[fanOfeeDIY]

I received an email from Keysight telling me that I won a MSOX3104T (because it was turned down).
I will try to post the development. I am a bit like nihtila, not willing to pay the full TAX on the scope but happy to pay for a lower end scope if possible.
I contacted KS, will see what they say, ideally if there is no taxes and I can pick it up from Farnell it will be great. 

Great to win

If it ends up not receiving the 3104T because of the TAX and if the Keysight is flexible,
I would like to receive it with paying the TAX.

If that really happens please send PM to me

[continuo]

Aaaaaaaand... We have another winner here on the forums... 


PeterEE  -  US
shplatt  -  US
nihtila  -  UK
Fanbix  -  UK
ela-ela  -  GER
raupi  -  GER
(SebW  -  GER)  <-  not sure what happened to him   


So that's 7 out of 35 winners here on Dave's EEVBlog forum, 20% of all winners! Impressive! 

[rrinker]

(SebW  -  GER)  <-  not sure what happened to him   

 He declined and they drew another name for the 4000 he won.

[jc101]

I received an email from Keysight telling me that I won a MSOX3104T (because it was turned down).
I will try to post the development. I am a bit like nihtila, not willing to pay the full TAX on the scope but happy to pay for a lower end scope if possible.
I contacted KS, will see what they say, ideally if there is no taxes and I can pick it up from Farnell it will be great. 

I won a DSOX3014T scope in the touch challenge last year, I nominated Microlease as my distributer (I had already ordered other items from them, so it was just easy) and the scope arrived with an invoice for £0.00, with the certificate for all the software options too.  As it was delivered and invoiced from a UK company, nothing additional to pay.

Took a few weeks to sort out but can't complain over that!

[rfeecs]

I'm not  a tax lawyer, but in the USA, aren't prize winnings taxed as regular income?

So if you are in a 40% tax bracket (Federal + State income tax), then if you win a $30,000 scope, you owe $12,000 in taxes.

Still a bargain for a $30,000 scope if you were ever willing to pay that much in the first place.

If you're in the 30-40% tax bracket, you sure as hell should to be able to afford the tax on this windfall.

If you live in California, are single, make the median personal income and have few deductions, then your tax brackets are 25% for Federal and 9.3% for state.  That's 34.3%.  So quite easy to end up in the 30-40% bracket.

...
As a matter of idle interest, if this is going to a bona fide business, would it not be tax deductible in the US?

No, but you can deduct state and local taxes from income for figuring Federal tax.  A few states allow deducting Federal tax when figuring state tax.  Makes my head hurt. 

[rx8pilot]

In California (Los Angeles) it is easy to be in the 40% bracket, make 'a lot' of money but somehow live a modest life in a small house in a neighborhood that has so much gunfire at night you no longer flinch.

Small house in slightly above a gang-infested area is $500k+. After taxes and house payment you have to be making a LOT of dough.

[ProBang2]

So, there is no unified tax system in the US? Different from state to state?

BTW: What´s about Tennessee? Why has a winner in Tennessee not to fill the form from KS?
Is KS (or the US-Government) expecting that in tennessee is no one able to read and write?

And last: About "SebastianW", our new iconic german hero (no, that´s just not enough. He is - I must say it - simply "the Man").
He declined? Really? For sure? I have serious doubts.

Why should "the man" delete his Postings at Monday evening (08:00 PM german time) after the contact with Keysight Germany?
(Receiving the same message as ela-ela. Look in the other scopemonth thread.)
Except three: The first posting can´t be deleted, in the other two he looks fine (relativly).
The 15 postings were he is gone nuts are vanished.
I give you four options (feel free to add more, please):

1) He was a troll. In no way related to the real winner.
(A troll delete his postings?)

2) He declined the scope before he knows that he hasn´t to pay VAT.
(And stopped suddenly the whining about his bad fate?)

3) He declined the scope after he knows that he hasn´t to pay VAT. (WTF? Seriously?)

4) After receiving the message from KS Germany he was embarrassed and ashamed.
(And he hasn´t the balls to tell, what´s then going on with the winning.)

Guess, which is my favourite?    

[Howardlong]

So, there is no unified tax system in the US? Different from state to state?

BTW: What´s about Tennessee? Why has a winner in Tennessee not to fill the form from KS?
Is KS (or the US-Government) expecting that in tennessee is no one able to read and write?

And last: About "SebastianW", our new iconic german hero (no, that´s just not enough. He is - I must say it - simply "the Man").
He declined? Really? For sure? I have serious doubts.

Why should "the man" delete his Postings at Monday evening (08:00 PM german time) after the contact with Keysight Germany?
(Receiving the same message as ela-ela. Look in the other scopemonth thread.)
Except three: The first posting can´t be deleted, in the other two he looks fine (relativly).
The 15 postings were he is gone nuts are vanished.
I give you four options (feel free to add more, please):

1) He was a troll. In no way related to the real winner.
(A troll delete his postings?)

2) He declined the scope before he knows that he hasn´t to pay VAT.
(And stopped suddenly the whining about his bad fate?)

3) He declined the scope after he knows that he hasn´t to pay VAT. (WTF? Seriously?)

4) After receiving the message from KS Germany he was embarrassed and ashamed.
(And he hasn´t the balls to tell, what´s then going on with the winning.)

Guess, which is my favourite?    

Or, he was under 18 and therefore ineligible to enter. My favourite, and the only way I can explain the bizarre episode.

[bson]

As a matter of idle interest, if this is going to a bona fide business, would it not be tax deductible in the US?

Not as an expense, but as a capital investment it can be put on a schedule and depreciated over a certain number of years (depending on what bucket IRS places it in), so each future year there is a deduction.  This is actually problematic and frankly sucks if you have a business and leads to preposterous situations: say you earn $1M, invest the $1M in equipment and other capital expenses and you have a net $0 in the bank, but you still owe taxes on $1M.  And the IRS sure isn't going to accept getting paid in installments.  (Of course, if you borrow to make the investment you don't have a taxable profit, which leads to insane arrangements where businesses lease all their equipment, including airlines leasing their own aircraft engines...)

[CustomEngineerer]

As someone who wasn't lucky enough to win one of the scopes I still had fun entering and hoping each day to see my name drawn. To give away 30+ quality scopes is truly awesome. Many thanks to Keysight for going to all this trouble, and especially working with the winners to help them be able to accept the scope. Hopefully this experience hasn't turned Keysight off from wanting to do more contests in the future.