Keysight refusing warranty - DSOX3014A bought less than one month ago

[Mr. Scram]

The OP stated a couple of times that the self-cal wasn't the issue and that the Warranty is the important thing to him.  Not everyone can spend a couple of G's on something , have it fail and then go spend a couple more on something else.  You might take a chance on something for a really good price, if you know you can work around a failure.  Not everyone is in that kind of a financial position.  Warranties have saved my but a couple of times, and that's not a rosy view talking.

If warranty is that important take it up with the person who sold the device to you or don't take a chance on a heavily discounted NOS unit. So far OP has refused to press the issue with Nortron "because they don't have another one". Which happens to also point towards something rather different than worry about warranty. However, it'd be better to have OP do his own talking.

[maginnovision]

It also doesn't matter. If he does a self cal and it comes good(99% chance) what are the odds he'll have an issue in a year(original warranty)? If he updates the firmware I'd bet it's pretty low. These were not high failure rate scopes, if they were they never would have made a 3000T because nobody would pay that kind of money when the heritage is garbage. Run self cal and stop worrying about a warranty that'd likely do nothing for you even if you had it.

[Brumby]

It also doesn't matter. If he does a self cal and it comes good(99% chance) what are the odds he'll have an issue in a year(original warranty)? If he updates the firmware I'd bet it's pretty low. These were not high failure rate scopes, if they were they never would have made a 3000T because nobody would pay that kind of money when the heritage is garbage. Run self cal and stop worrying about a warranty that'd likely do nothing for you even if you had it.

This is why I suggested he deal with Nortron - they are the ones who are the weak link in this story.  Let them do the self-cal and underwrite a 12 month warranty.  With a scope that has a good track record it's highly likely that the only thing which will happen is that the Op stops worrying.

[bdunham7]

Tell Norton you want a full refund and you'll go buy a scope from a vendor who sells new stock with full warranty.
End of Story.

Seriously; you pay that kind of money - you should have full MFG warranty. Given the scope is already 8 years old; just return it as it's clear KS won't warranty the scope.

To be fair, if I could get the scope I wanted NIB NOS but without a warranty (or actually, with a 90 day warranty) for half price or better, I think I'd go that route.  And it isn't totally clear that KS is totally disowning any warranty, although that may be the case.  So far they've only declined to recalibrate a decade old instrument for free.

[Jay_Diddy_B]

Hi!

I bought a brand new DSOX3014A and it seems defective, presenting a negative DC offset in all ranges, and it is not constant along the ranges.

Snip ..
 
Regards,
Rodrigo.

To the OP can you tell us how big the offsets are?

I suspect that some offsets are normal. I am very familiar with Tektronix TDS7xx and TDS5xx scope.

Tektronix says:



How do I run a Signal Path Compensation (SPC) on an DPO/MSO/MDO4000 Series oscilloscope?




Question:


How do I run a Signal Path Compensation (SPC) on an DPO/MSO/MDO4000 Series oscilloscope?

Answer:


Signal Path Compensation (SPC) should be run anytime you are getting DC offsets in your signals, or your scope has moved locations and might have changed temperature, or if it's been more then a month since your last SPC. This is a standard procedure, kind of like mantinance on your car. The following video demonstrates this procedure on the MDO4000 Series scope and also shows the difference of the RF channel.

NOTE: This procedure is the same for all MSO/DPO3000 and MSO/DPO2000 Series oscilloscopes.

 



I suspect that User Cal on Agilent scope is the same as SPC on a Tektronix scope.

In fact Keysight has a video about this:




I would run the User Cal and see if it fixes the offsets.

Regards,

Jay_Diddy_B

[Brumby]

He paid half the money for a NOS,

True.

and he demands full warranty

I haven't seen that.  Yes, he wants some sort of warranty, but I didn't read "full" into it anywhere.

and refuses to do a self cal.

No he hasn't.  Besides, the self-cal isn't going to address the bigger question as to what the situation would be if a real fault develops ... a point that the Op has made quite clearly.

I bet he wants a new Keysight branded replacement unit for the price of a NOS.

Now you are being dramatic.

[TiN]

Brumby

So I bought the scope as brand new expecting full warranty

OP does expect full warranty for 8 year old NOS, which he bought from non-authorized supplier.
At same pace one could go buy "new" scope from ebay and start asking manufacturer about official service at manufacturers cost. Slippery road right there.

[NoisyBoy]

Guys, notice we are all bickering amongst ourselves to keep this thread at the top while the OP stays quiet and watch.  I think we are doing exactly what he wanted, let’s move on to other more interesting discussions and stop wasting our time.  He doesn’t want our help, just the publicity.

[BravoV]

Once Keysight official starting to give even a hint that they will provide the warranty as op wants, I guess I will start to purchase items from my NOS NIB items listing that I've been salivating for years, as they are still available at local here with heavy discounted price too, which was a former HP/Agilent (not Keysight) legit distributor. 

Few interesting items from my wanted shopping list .. signal analyzer, spectrum analyzer, VNA , 8.5 digits bench DMM, impedance analyzer and hell ... Agilent spectrometer similar to the one used in CSI TV series ... and many more ...

PS : For others that have similar situation as me, get ready guys, and be prepare to pull the trigger, as its all legit, and instant profit, yayyy ... 

[Brumby]

Brumby

So I bought the scope as brand new expecting full warranty

OP does expect full warranty for 8 year old NOS, which he bought from non-authorized supplier.
At same pace one could go buy "new" scope from ebay and start asking manufacturer about official service at manufacturers cost. Slippery road right there.

 

Sorry.  Mea culpa.


Edit:  Just re-read the posts.  He said he was expecting full warranty - and although it would have been wise for him to ask about it, this points to a clear failure on the part of Nortron (in my book).  If nothing was stated to the contrary, his expectation is reasonable.

[JxR]

Once Keysight official starting to give even a hint that they will provide the warranty as op wants, I guess I will start to purchase items from my NOS NIB items listing that I've been salivating for years, as they are still available at local here with heavy discounted price too, which was a former HP/Agilent (not Keysight) legit distributor. 

Few interesting items from my wanted shopping list .. signal analyzer, spectrum analyzer, VNA , 8.5 digits bench DMM, impedance analyzer and hell ... Agilent spectrometer similar to the one used in CSI TV series ... and many more ...

PS : For others that have similar situation as me, get ready guys, and be prepare to pull the trigger, as its all legit, and instant profit, yayyy ... 

Keysight already responded to the OP in this thread....

It seemed pretty clear to me that the answer was no warranty for this scope.  Daniel recommended he return the scope and repurchase from an authorized dealer.  So there doesn't seem to be anything to get excited about.

[BravoV]

Once Keysight official starting to give even a hint that they will provide the warranty as op wants, I guess I will start to purchase items from my NOS NIB items listing that I've been salivating for years, as they are still available at local here with heavy discounted price too, which was a former HP/Agilent (not Keysight) legit distributor. 

Few interesting items from my wanted shopping list .. signal analyzer, spectrum analyzer, VNA , 8.5 digits bench DMM, impedance analyzer and hell ... Agilent spectrometer similar to the one used in CSI TV series ... and many more ...

PS : For others that have similar situation as me, get ready guys, and be prepare to pull the trigger, as its all legit, and instant profit, yayyy ... 

Keysight already responded to the OP in this thread....

It seemed pretty clear to me that the answer was no warranty for this scope.  Daniel recommended he return the scope and repurchase from an authorized dealer.  So there doesn't seem to be anything to get excited about.

Well, keep pretending to be naive, innocent, ignorance on many suggestions already posted here, and at the same time as opportunist and wishful thinking too, whats wrong with that ? Beside there are handful of persistence supporters too.

Isn't this worth pursuing ? 

[JxR]

Well, keep pretending to be naive, innocent, ignorance on many suggestions already posted here, and at the same time as opportunist and wishful thinking too, whats wrong with that ? Beside there are handful of persistence supporters too.

Isn't this worth pursuing ? 

Sorry.  You did such a great job on summing up why Keysight folding and providing a full warranty on this purchase would set a terrible precedence, that I took the comment at face value. 

I'll let you get back to stirring the pot....enjoy 

[rodpp]

Hi,

I would like to leave here a feedback regarding this case.

Today I talked with a director of Nortron store, regarding the scope warranty. To sumarize:

1- Nortron was an Agilent authorized dealer in Brazil;
2- When Keysight was created, Nortron did not signed a contract with them. So Nortron never was an Keysight authorized dealer;
3- In that time, Nortron asked Agilent if they should return the Nortron stock to Agilent (as they were not authorized dealer anymore) or if they could sell the equipments to final customers and Keysight would honor the warranty;
4- According with the Nortron director, Agilent answered saying that the stock could be sold by Nortron to final customers and the warranty should be honored by Keysight;
5- The Nortron understandment, and it is the norm here in Brazil, is that the warranty period starts at the final sale invoice date;
6- Now, after Keysight refused the warranty for this scope, Nortron contacted Keysight trying to have the scope covered by the warranty. Nortron understandment is that the warranty starts at the final customer sale date, it is how it works in Brazil;
7- After some days, Keysight returned to Nortron saying that the warranty counter started when Nortron bought the equipment from Agilent (not in the final customer sale date), so the warranty was expired. And Keysight refused to reset the warranty period to the final sale date;
8- After that explanation, the Nortron director said that Nortron will honor the warrant itself.
9- Then I asked if I could try a self cal before send it to repair, as that probably should fix the DC offset problem. And if another problem occur in the warranty period, I will contact Nortron to fix it.
10- The Nortron director agreed, and said that if the self cal did not fix the problem, that I should contact the Nortron salesman to send the equipment to repair.
11- I just did the self cal, and as expected, the DC offset problem was fixed.
12- Now everything is ok, and the scope is covered by (Nortron, not Keysight) warranty.

I learn from this case, reading the comments in this thread, that each country can have very different pratices (and laws) regarding customer relationship.

Here in Brazil, always the manufacturer is in charge of the warranty. And it is enough to have a valid invoice to claim your warranty. If the seller is an authorized dealer, he can handle better the case with the manufacturer. But if he is not an authorized dealer, the manufacturer must honor the warranty anyway. In fact, in the Brazilian consumer law there is no thing like "authorized dealer". So, considering that the item is genuine, you have the invoice with all tax paid, etc, you are good and have all rights, regardless if you bought it from an authorized dealer or from any other dealer.

Thanks to all contributions and opinions!

Regards,
Rodrigo.

[sokoloff]

Great outcome Rodrigo and sincere thanks for following up with the outcome.

One question remains though. Suppose you kept the item in the box for another 2 years and then sold it to the next buyer, call him "C", on date "D" in 2021.

Does Keysight need to warranty the device from the sales date of "D"? After all, you're just as much an authorized dealer as Norton was...

Suppose instead you come up with a broken scope down the road after the warranty would have expired. Can you sell it to "C", buy it back from them on date "E", get an invoice from them, and use that invoice (dated "E") to claim a warranty from Keysight? After all, "C" is just as much an authorized dealer as you and Norton are...

[rodpp]

Great outcome Rodrigo and sincere thanks for following up with the outcome.

One question remains though. Suppose you kept the item in the box for another 2 years and then sold it to the next buyer, call him "C", on date "D" in 2021.

Does Keysight need to warranty the device from the sales date of "D"? After all, you're just as much an authorized dealer as Norton was...

Suppose instead you come up with a broken scope down the road after the warranty would have expired. Can you sell it to "C", buy it back from them on date "E", get an invoice from them, and use that invoice (dated "E") to claim a warranty from Keysight? After all, "C" is just as much an authorized dealer as you and Norton are...

Hi,

When Nortron bought it from Agilent, it was not a final user sale. There is fiscal differences, the sale nature is different, the tax is different too, and that commercial transaction must be between two companies. Because this, some distributors do not sell to final customers, for example.

When I bought it from Nortron, this sale was a final consumer sale. That sale date is the milestone for the warrant period.

So the answer is NO, Keysight do not need to honor the warranty to C starting at D date, because I bought it as a final consumer and the warranty counter was started.

The second question is NO too, same reason.

[Mr. Scram]

At least your confidence in your own assessment of your situation hasn't suffered. Not that it matters because it's all academic when Keysight says no, regardless of your actual or perceived rights.

[TheSteve]

I am glad it is working.

Next time, perhaps try the "usercal" before the "user rant."

edit - if you haven't installed the newest firmware I highly recommend you do.

[ogden]

Next time, perhaps try the usercal before the rant.

Also read Brazilian Consumer Defense Code. Manufacturer, importer, assembler together with supplier all are liable when product causes harm, but quality and warranty claims have to be handled by Supplier, in this case Norton (Article 18): "Suppliers of durable or nondurable consumer goods will answer for any quality or quantity deffects".

[rodpp]

Next time, perhaps try the usercal before the rant.

Also read Brazilian Consumer Defense Code. Manufacturer, importer, assembler together with supplier all are liable when product causes harm, but quality and warranty claims have to be handled by Supplier, in this case Norton (Article 18): "Suppliers of durable or nondurable consumer goods will answer for any quality or quantity deffects".

Please, pay attention in the Supplier definition by that law:

Art. 3. A supplier is any physical person or corporate entity, of a public or private nature, domestic or foreign, as well as other involved in the activities of production, assembly, creation, construction, transformation, importing, exporting, distribution, or commercialization of products or services.

[Mr. Scram]

Please, pay attention in the Supplier definition by that law:

Art. 3. A supplier is any physical person or corporate entity, of a public or private nature, domestic or foreign, as well as other involved in the activities of production, assembly, creation, construction, transformation, importing, exporting, distribution, or commercialization of products or services.

Until it's confirmed in court it's just an opinion. Keysight has another opinion so the answer is no.

[ogden]

Please, pay attention in the Supplier definition by that law:

Art. 3. A supplier is any physical person or corporate entity, of a public or private nature, domestic or foreign, as well as other involved in the activities of production, assembly, creation, construction, transformation, importing, exporting, distribution, or commercialization of products or services.

LOL BS. Vague definition which actually does not do any good for consumers. Try to claim your warranty in OEM factory where Keysight instruments are assembled Also read Articles 12 and 13 where Manufacturer miraculously is not Supplier anymore.

[rodpp]

Please, pay attention in the Supplier definition by that law:

Art. 3. A supplier is any physical person or corporate entity, of a public or private nature, domestic or foreign, as well as other involved in the activities of production, assembly, creation, construction, transformation, importing, exporting, distribution, or commercialization of products or services.

LOL BS. Vague definition which actually does not do any good for consumers. Try to claim your warranty in OEM factory where Keysight instruments are assembled Also read Articles 12 and 13 where Manufacturer miraculously is not Supplier anymore.

There is jurisprudence here indicating that clauses will be interpreted in the way that is most favorable to the consumer.

But, as Mr. Scram said, all that is just an opinion until it's confirmed in court...

Fortunately, it will not be necessary in this case.

Keysight refused to honor the warranty, but Nortron assumed the warranty and everything is fine now.

[2N3055]

Please, pay attention in the Supplier definition by that law:

Art. 3. A supplier is any physical person or corporate entity, of a public or private nature, domestic or foreign, as well as other involved in the activities of production, assembly, creation, construction, transformation, importing, exporting, distribution, or commercialization of products or services.

LOL BS. Vague definition which actually does not do any good for consumers. Try to claim your warranty in OEM factory where Keysight instruments are assembled Also read Articles 12 and 13 where Manufacturer miraculously is not Supplier anymore.

There is jurisprudence here indicating that clauses will be interpreted in the way that is most favorable to the consumer.

But, as Mr. Scram said, all that is just an opinion until it's confirmed in court...

Fortunately, it will not be necessary in this case.

Keysight refused to honor the warranty, but Nortron assumed the warranty and everything is fine now.

I'm glad it all ended well. And as Steve said, put new firmware ASAP, so you don't get firmware corruption and get new features..

[rsjsouza]

Rodrigo, thanks for reporting back the ourcome of this scenario and  I am glad that Nortron did a respectable thing.

My tip now: unsubscribe from this thread as people will restart the discussion and rehash all the tired points.