Keysight Scary Letter

[coppercone2]

yo just say you sold it out of a van in some bad neighborhood close to your house

I have 0 understanding why you people did not delete the inane emails immediately without even reading them ?

even if someone came to my house I would just claim I was john magnamus or something unless it was some serious FBI shit. Like if they ambushed me going to take out the trash or something. Otherwise why open the door or letter?

none of the middle men care either, the postal service wants the business and so does eBay.

[Brumby]

I can just see your reaction when everyone who cooperated got brand new kit as compensation (if that is something they would do) - and you got stuck with a second hand unit you couldn't tell anyone about or even send it out for calibration or repair.

This "up yours" attitude seem so unnecessary - and silly.

[coppercone2]

what are they gonna do, buy everything on eBay? just sell it as normal.

good hunting

you wanna risk being on corporate 'good will' compensation lol??

[Electro Detective]

Is there anyone here who wouldn't accept new or factory refurb equipment with a current cal certificate in exchange for whatever random level of functionality is characterized by a typical auction purchase? 

Hey Keysight, I've got 3 3458As, 2 3456s, and a couple of 34401As that just might be part of this Area 51 operation. You're more than invited to replace them with new if you like. 

I find it hard to digest why this has not happened already 

is it too simply complicated ?   

or is it some bully boy corporat b!tchiness or buck stop denial game at play here ?

 
Another option is to roll with advice from the The King 

[Jwalling]

If you have some of it and received a letter/correspondence, please respond. We're not going to do anything crazy or insane.

Thanks for your patience!

I have, and yet I received no response at all from Mr. Harrington.
Looking through my sent emails, there were two; On 12/20/18 and 12/26/2018. I only got read receipts from his email client (which I saved just in case.)

I'm going to send a third email to him this morning.

Another email, and another read receipt with no response. I guess they're not that serious about resolving their issue.
I wrote:

Mr. Harrington,

It's now been over a month since I responded to this issue and yet I've received nothing back from you other than your email clients read receipt, which means you probably read them.
Why no response?

Can you tell me more about this issue?
Apparently, this is not the only equipment that Keysight is trying to retrieve. This is causing quite a stir on EEVblog:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/keysight-ip-intimidation/

I guess the cat's out of the bag...

[mikeselectricstuff]

It seems pretty stupid that nobody has done a formal categorisation of equipment types to seperate things that can contain sensitive info from those that can't.
There is no way that a few stored setups or readings in a DMM could be any use to anyone, as there would be no context to interpret what the data represented.

[Jwalling]

It seems pretty stupid that nobody has done a formal categorisation of equipment types to seperate things that can contain sensitive info from those that can't.
There is no way that a few stored setups or readings in a DMM could be any use to anyone, as there would be no context to interpret what the data represented.

Somebody mentioned custom firmware, which could be a possibility.

[Brumby]

It seems pretty stupid that nobody has done a formal categorisation of equipment types to seperate things that can contain sensitive info from those that can't.
There is no way that a few stored setups or readings in a DMM could be any use to anyone, as there would be no context to interpret what the data represented.

Somebody mentioned custom firmware, which could be a possibility.

I don't think there is any real issue with there being some "secret sauce" or confidential data involved here.  Certainly, it may be possible - but my money is on something much more mundane.  As I said elsewhere...

Look - I and others have described a much more plausible scenario ... that the equipment being chased down was under some contractual requirement that expressly forbade any of it from getting out in the wild.

Simple.  No conspiracy.  No special versions of equipment.  Nothing that would compromise national security.  Just a clause in a contract - and if that clause required a perfectly good, stock standard 34401A to be ground into dust, then it has to be ground into dust.

[CJay]

It seems pretty stupid that nobody has done a formal categorisation of equipment types to seperate things that can contain sensitive info from those that can't.
There is no way that a few stored setups or readings in a DMM could be any use to anyone, as there would be no context to interpret what the data represented.

Somebody mentioned custom firmware, which could be a possibility.

I don't think there is any real issue with there being some "secret sauce" or confidential data involved here.  Certainly, it may be possible - but my money is on something much more mundane.  As I said elsewhere...

Look - I and others have described a much more plausible scenario ... that the equipment being chased down was under some contractual requirement that expressly forbade any of it from getting out in the wild.

Simple.  No conspiracy.  No special versions of equipment.  Nothing that would compromise national security.  Just a clause in a contract - and if that clause required a perfectly good, stock standard 34401A to be ground into dust, then it has to be ground into dust.

That's where my money goes too, one site has certain kit here that has to be shredded, we aren't allowed to recycle components from it, it doesn't matter that the RAM or CPUs have been powered off for months, it gets shredded.

[Top Gun]

I thought it would be illegal to contact EBAY customers offline . So If you bought something off EBAY your info cannot be used off EBAY .
 So since Keysight and Outback are threatening EBAY customers without EBAYS authority EBAY will step in . Its really seems that Keysight and Outback
 do not understand the use of EBAY's policys and legal stipulations . So Ebay might be telling Keysight and Outback to stop this . HUMM the Big Boys get in trouble
 with the BIGGER BOY !!! This will be very interesting to see what happens .
 Just my Humble observation on this .   

[Towger]

In the outside world, eBay's rules are not worth the paper they are written on.  Now European data protection laws are another story and sharing personal data with another 3rd party can get a company in a whole load of expensive trouble.

[LapTop006]

It seems pretty stupid that nobody has done a formal categorisation of equipment types to seperate things that can contain sensitive info from those that can't.
There is no way that a few stored setups or readings in a DMM could be any use to anyone, as there would be no context to interpret what the data represented.

Even if that were the case, assuming it's a known leaky firmware or custom mods on *some* of the instruments in the batch perhaps Keysight simply don't want to leak which ones should get a deeper look?

I'm almost disappointed that the only thing I've bought from Outback in the last few years was a BROWN-era Keithley DMM.

[nctnico]

It seems pretty stupid that nobody has done a formal categorisation of equipment types to seperate things that can contain sensitive info from those that can't.
There is no way that a few stored setups or readings in a DMM could be any use to anyone, as there would be no context to interpret what the data represented.

That is not how it works. In a distant past I also worked in a secure environment. Simple stuff like a pipe fitting had to be destroyed because it was used in conjuction with a military vehicle. The combination of equipment used can hint towards what was done with it.

[KaneTW]

I thought it would be illegal to contact EBAY customers offline . So If you bought something off EBAY your info cannot be used off EBAY .
 So since Keysight and Outback are threatening EBAY customers without EBAYS authority EBAY will step in . Its really seems that Keysight and Outback
 do not understand the use of EBAY's policys and legal stipulations . So Ebay might be telling Keysight and Outback to stop this . HUMM the Big Boys get in trouble
 with the BIGGER BOY !!! This will be very interesting to see what happens .
 Just my Humble observation on this .

It's neither illegal nor a breach of eBay's policy. And if you seriously think eBay's policies matter, I have a bridge to sell you.

[Johnboy]

At the point of nine pages of this, my observation is that much has been made of whether these companies can force a buyer to return equipment purchased from them, not whether it's advantageous to the buyer to do so. Regardless of the reasons for wanting the return of the gear, it seems fairly obvious that the companies have no real incentive to genuinely chase the buyer around with threats of legal action, nor would they fail to compensate the buyer for a mistake made by someone else. Either path would be a public relations nightmare for such companies.

While I wholly understand why the OP posted this for the eevblog forum community to raise awareness of unusual activity, I don't see anything particularly scary about the correspondence we've seen here. It's obviously a form letter, and it's just as obvious that the equipment they want back isn't special in its own right but the serial number attached to it is. This prolonged speculation regarding potentially nefarious motivations (or "super-meters" available for purchase only by shadowy figures) is just the sort of embarrassment most companies would prefer to avoid. I think the wording of the form letter tends to obfuscate this, and I also believe it's intentional. Lawyers tend to just allege things, and broadly, to get stuff done; they don't have to offer details that could potentially put their client at a disadvantage in some way.

I'd just give it back. You'd likely be better off in the long run, as has been broadly hinted. The David vs. Goliath approach seems sort of over the top to me. I just don't see a credible "threat" here.

[bd139]

I think the credible threat is a forced reduction in buying power. If you have purchased something in good faith and it is taken from you and only the initial capital returned then the replacement may cost more.

[Johnboy]

I think the credible threat is a forced reduction in buying power. If you have purchased something in good faith and it is taken from you and only the initial capital returned then the replacement may cost more.

Yes, if only the initial capital is returned... and especially so in the case of what feels like an involuntary surrender of property.

Yet the gamble one takes by voluntarily helping one entity to clean up another entity's mess is just that, a gamble. Good faith tends to reward good faith. It is no guarantee of anything, of course.

[KaneTW]

It's your decision as to what's sufficient compensation to return the device. Talking with them certainly won't hurt.

[mikeselectricstuff]

I'd just give it back. You'd li4kely be better off in the long run, as has been broadly hinted. The David vs. Goliath approach seems sort of over the top to me. I just don't see a credible "threat" here.

Why would you just give it back if you see no credible threat?
You have nothing to lose and everything to gain by asking them what they will offer in exchange.

Worst case you are in the same position

[KaneTW]

Don't just give it back, that's silly. You have a device and it has a specific worth to you, either in functional requirements or money. If you get those fulfilled by whatever you get back, sure, go for it.

[vtwin@cox.net]

This "up yours" attitude seem so unnecessary - and silly.

I agree.

Sadly, I really have to question the intellect of some of these posters. It seems they live for unnecessary drama. It isn't as if Keysight is telling them "you have to give us the equipment back and we're not giving you anything in return, tough luck".

I just do not get people. Granted, we do not know what Keysight is offering yet (and in all probability we will never know, they will likely require some form of non-disclosure agreement under terms of their settlements) but if I could get a newer, better, more modern piece of equipment out of the deal that is worth more money, why the hell wouldn't I?

[ataradov]

Sadly, I really have to question the intellect of some of these posters. It seems they live for unnecessary drama. It isn't as if Keysight is telling them "you have to give us the equipment back and we're not giving you anything in return, tough luck".

That comes from the expectation to be screwed by corporations. Unfortunately it is the reality here.

but if I could get a newer, better, more modern piece of equipment out of the deal that is worth more money, why the hell wouldn't I?

Because that is not the expectation of what will happen. The reality is that they will unleash the lawyers and you will either loose the property, or will be in for a legal battle.

Remember, they have started the conversation with lawyers, not offers to replace the equipment. This kind of sets the tone of the conversation.

[bd139]

Indeed.

Personally I wouldn't even respond until I've seen an outcome from someone else. You have no obligation to do so.

[vtwin@cox.net]

That comes from the expectation to be screwed by corporations. Unfortunately it is the reality here.

Because that is not the expectation of what will happen. The reality is that they will unleash the lawyers and you will either loose the property, or will be in for a legal battle.

Acting like a jackass is far more likely to cause the scenario you suggest. Or, as my parents taught be... you catch more flies with honey than vinegar.


By all means, tell Keysight "up yours!" Just do not be surprised to find yourself on the receiving end of a subpoena or a summary judgement, and a lot of unnecessary expensive legal costs. They have much deeper pockets.


And all this over a piece of equipment older than my children.

*shrug*

[ataradov]

There is no need to be confrontational, for sure, I agree here.

But not responding at all is a valid course of action. Especially given that they don't seem to respond back.