Keysight Scary Letter

[bd139]

No different here. If keysight turned up and personally gave me a VNA it would be a taxable gain.

[mikeselectricstuff]

No different here. If keysight turned up and personally gave me a VNA it would be a taxable gain.

How would HMRC find out that Keysight gave you a VNA?

[vtwin@cox.net]

your not pablo escobar man, thats what I mean they are harassing you to make you feel like your a criminal if you don't comply with some ridiclous shit. Nothing is gonna happen like that, you just tell the sheriff I never checked my mail sorry be polite.. its not the gestapo.

Don't be so scared of law enforcement. And that won't happen. That's serious methhead thinking man. You think some guy is gonna get info off ebay to deal with some crazy shit to make the police come to your house?? 

This methhead is a constable who has served his fair share of summons, subpoenas, notices of summary judgement, and "escorted" numerous "guests of the court" from their homes to a holding cell on a bench warrant.

The sheriff doesn't care if you checked your mail or not. You may think you're being creative, coming up with a unique excuse. We've heard them all before.

So, go ahead and play ostrich. Just don't drop the soap.

[bd139]

No different here. If keysight turned up and personally gave me a VNA it would be a taxable gain.

How would HMRC find out that Keysight gave you a VNA?

I got a tax audit a couple of years back. They will ask what it is when they turn up and where the receipt is.

[mikeselectricstuff]

No different here. If keysight turned up and personally gave me a VNA it would be a taxable gain.

How would HMRC find out that Keysight gave you a VNA?

I got a tax audit a couple of years back. They will ask what it is when they turn up and where the receipt is.

So make sure it's not there when they show up.

[bd139]

They are psychic. They'll ask what was there and where did you hide it and where the receipt is. 

I get your point but it only takes one mistake to get thoroughly reamed.

[mikeselectricstuff]

They are psychic. They'll ask what was there and where did you hide it and where the receipt is. 

I get your point but it only takes one mistake to get thoroughly reamed.

"On loan from client..."

[Mr. Scram]

I got a tax audit a couple of years back. They will ask what it is when they turn up and where the receipt is.

Sorry, what? They go through your house, point out various items you own and you have to produce a watertight paper trail for it?

[Mr. Scram]

Most probably the lot should have been destroyed, but instead it was sold at an action, by mistake.

The bureaucracy still need the "destroyed" confirmation papers, so that's why the letters.  The instruments are needed in order to be destroyed, in order to stamp some papers, in order to store the stamped papers in a nice file, in order to be there just in case someone will ever bother to check those papers.  There is no secret "Recipe of Immortality" in those instruments' firmware, or something.

IMO, blanket national security laws (combined with bureaucracy) is the only explanation that makes sense.

If it's a matter of paperwork, simply write a note stating "the device has been disposed of in suitable manner" and everyone can live on happily ever after.

[bd139]

I got a tax audit a couple of years back. They will ask what it is when they turn up and where the receipt is.

Sorry, what? They go through your house, point out various items you own and you have to produce a watertight paper trail for it?

Apparently they can choose to do it at the registered business address or the auditors office. When they got me in 2011 (sorry was a few years earlier than I remembered it) it was done at the business address which was my home. My business address is now the accountant so I’m fine 

Had an on site interview and then I was sent a letter a month later asking for receipts for the equipment I had that wasn’t on account (it was my own). They had written everything down in the room that didn’t look like it was household.

Imagine my workbench now...

[Yansi]

No different here. If keysight turned up and personally gave me a VNA it would be a taxable gain.

How would HMRC find out that Keysight gave you a VNA?

Quite easily here, in fact. Anything that crosses a border and has your address written on it is a taxable item. 

[bd139]

We have a keysight office here so it'd be internal. However if it was imported, it is tied directly to you: https://www.gov.uk/guidance/chief-trader-import-and-export-processing-system

[rsjsouza]

I don't know how it is in the UK, but if it comes from a company, they must declare it to the IRS as a gift with some sort of value. They can cross check with the recipient and see if it was declared in the person's tax return.

[glarsson]

But it's not a gift. It's just swapped with a similar thing with equal values.

[chriswebb]

Yea I am not exactly willing to have the extra tax liability from a new piece of gear, nor lose the options that the item was sent came with.

The newest comparable model of the piece of gear that keysight wants doesn't even have a price listed on their site, and I am fairly confident that I got a pretty good deal on my item. It is not a spectrum analyzer or a simple DMM. So they are in quite a pickle if they really want to make me whole.  As I said before, the item that I have is worth much more to me than the money that I paid for it, and if I were to respond, it wouldn't be without getting in touch with a lawyer on my side, because I don't really care for the legal advice offered by those in this thread.

[Yansi]

Not that sure, but I think that would not prevent them from making you paying the taxes for the replacement.  Simple rules? Yes.Stupid rules? Also, probably. But that's how it is. Gift or not, both are taxable (VAT). Not sure about additional import fees, but I think it will be the same anyway.

And yes, contacting local lawyer would be a wise thing - if you can afford one. I can't and neither could many others.

[bd139]

But it's not a gift. It's just swapped with a similar thing with equal values.

They don’t care the nature of the transaction but your capital gain. If you went “hey thanks”, sold it, pocketed the difference then you’re liable for the gain.

And yes it sucks. This is one reason I use old crap. My gains are wedged with share income already. Have to cram excess is SIPP.

[tggzzz]

But it's not a gift. It's just swapped with a similar thing with equal values.

They don’t care the nature of the transaction but your capital gain. If you went “hey thanks”, sold it, pocketed the difference then you’re liable for the gain.

And yes it sucks. This is one reason I use old crap. My gains are wedged with share income already. Have to cram excess is SIPP.

HP, for it was them, once gave many of their UK employees a very large CGT bill despite their not having made a capital gain. Most tax inspectors thought that was impossible.

My suspicion is that there were high level negotiations between HP and HMRC as to whether it would be CGT liability or an income tax liability. CGT was preferable.

[bd139]

Saved HP a lot of money that did. What wankers.

CGT should be eliminated TBH. Those who can afford to pay it don’t care or know a workaround. Those who can’t it hurts.

[tggzzz]

Saved HP a lot of money that did. What wankers.

No, it didn't save them a penny, neither in the UK nor in the US.

They split the company but split the shares at a different time. Timing was irrelevant in the US, but not here.

[Gregg]

If Keysight is really serious about getting devices returned, they should issue an “Extended Warranty” for certain models with certain serial numbers.  Then replace them with similar and/or better “Under Warranty” because of a “Defect”.  The defect being that they shouldn’t have been sold to the general public. 
If you send a kitchen appliance back to the manufacturer under warranty and they replace it with a slightly newer model are you on the hook for added tax? You have the same functionality with the new appliance and you haven’t spent more money and you aren’t in the business of reselling the replacement appliance for profit; in common law parlance, you have been made whole.   

[bd139]

Saved HP a lot of money that did. What wankers.

No, it didn't save them a penny, neither in the UK nor in the US.

They split the company but split the shares at a different time. Timing was irrelevant in the US, but not here.

Gotcha. That makes sense now.

Incidentally the only time I’ve actually ever got tax right is immediately after I got it wrong (usually after hiring a supposedly reputable tax advisor). Whole shebang is a joke here. Same is true in US.

[bd139]

If Keysight is really serious about getting devices returned, they should issue an “Extended Warranty” for certain models with certain serial numbers.  Then replace them with similar and/or better “Under Warranty” because of a “Defect”.  The defect being that they shouldn’t have been sold to the general public. 
If you send a kitchen appliance back to the manufacturer under warranty and they replace it with a slightly newer model are you on the hook for added tax? You have the same functionality with the new appliance and you haven’t spent more money and you aren’t in the business of reselling the replacement appliance for profit; in common law parlance, you have been made whole.

As mentioned earlier the method of obtaining the asset doesn’t change the asset class or the liability. Think that applies both in UK and US.

This comes from the old “back of a lorry” transactions being audited.

[mikeselectricstuff]

But cgt is only payable as & when you sell. And you can write down the value every year you own it.

[tggzzz]

But cgt is only payable as & when you sell. And you can write down the value every year you own it.

Does depreciation matter if you sell it? In my innocence I'd have thought the CGT payable was based on (sale-purchase) price (modulo the standard frig factors).