Author Topic: IET DE-5000 LCR Meter in UK  (Read 45534 times)

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Offline jpbTopic starter

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IET DE-5000 LCR Meter in UK
« on: February 25, 2013, 09:57:45 am »
I've just received a quote from IET for their DE-5000 (I asked if it was available in the UK).
The meter costs $335 but the postage is $140 so the total is $475 and of course there would be VAT (import duty) to pay on top making it $570 or £376. This makes it a lot more than
the Agilent U1733C which is £284 from Conrad.

Is there a European distributer? I would have thought that IET would have told me in their e-mail if there was, but I thought I'd ask anyway.

The Agilent meter is not 4 wire and also applies 0.7Vrms so is not really suitable for in-circuit ESR tests.

Other ESR meters discussed on these forums all seem to have issues (like dodgy power supplies) or else are even more expensive.

Any recommendations from UK/Europe based people?
 

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Re: IET DE-5000 LCR Meter in UK
« Reply #1 on: February 25, 2013, 12:01:46 pm »
I'd go for the Agilent, and get a separate cheap ESR meter.

Dave.
 

Offline mzzj

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Re: IET DE-5000 LCR Meter in UK
« Reply #2 on: February 25, 2013, 01:06:01 pm »
I just ordered this http://www.reichelt.de/Induktivitaets-Kapazitaetsmesser/PEAKTECH-2170/3/index.html?;ACTION=3;LA=446;ARTICLE=113035;GROUPID=4060;artnr=PEAKTECH+2170;SID=13USNyKX8AAAIAAFVJPZYbc2f1faa3fc35d8d1c4071db95628b4c

Based on the same chipset as IET and has 4-wire measurement.
Can't comment yet about quality. Hopefully tomorrow I will get my hands on this meter.

 

Offline Wytnucls

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Re: IET DE-5000 LCR Meter in UK
« Reply #3 on: February 25, 2013, 01:09:15 pm »

You should also consider the cheaper CEM DT-9935, if you can live without data-logging and 4-wire resistance measurement.
4-wire measurement on a 200 Ohm range is a bit of a joke anyway. Rather get a microOhm meter, if this is important to you.
It has the Cyrustek chipset, but quoted accuracy is not as good as the DE-5000, but in most cases, it will get the job done.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/CEM-9935-Professional-LCR-Digital-Multimeter-Safety-10-100KHz-L-C-R-D-Q-/300847805113?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item460bed32b9
« Last Edit: March 02, 2013, 11:49:03 am by Wytnucls »
 

Online mikeselectricstuff

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Re: IET DE-5000 LCR Meter in UK
« Reply #4 on: February 25, 2013, 01:17:30 pm »
I just got one of these :
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Handheld-LCR-L-C-R-Meter-Tester-Touch-Screen-LCD-mini-USB-10KHz-10K-Hz-0-20-/130677788621?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item1e6d00cfcd
Made by
http://www.applent.com/


first impressions - build quality good (but mains adapter marginal), UI a but messy as you'd expect from China.
Will do a review when I get a chance.
 It is 4-wire.
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Offline jpbTopic starter

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Re: IET DE-5000 LCR Meter in UK
« Reply #5 on: February 25, 2013, 01:42:48 pm »
A lot of people seem to be acquiring new LCR meters - it will be very interesting to get some feedback when you've had a chance to use them.
 

Offline BravoV

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Re: IET DE-5000 LCR Meter in UK
« Reply #6 on: February 25, 2013, 01:51:59 pm »
Although not all, just wonder why a lot of LCR meter designers didn't think of or put in the 100Khz measurement range ?

C'mon, its not like they never read capacitor's datasheet that today mostly are specified tested at 100Khz as standard right ?

Is there any big technical challenges or a brick wall that might made these type of design cost a lot more once reaching 100Khz threshold ?  :-//

Offline Wytnucls

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Re: IET DE-5000 LCR Meter in UK
« Reply #7 on: February 25, 2013, 02:17:55 pm »
Actually, most electrolytic and tantalum caps are rated at 120Hz on datasheets. DF (tan d) is also quoted at 120Hz.
1KHz, 10KHz and 100KHz frequencies are normally used to quote the dissipation factor (tan d) for film capacitors.
Ceramic caps parameters are quoted at a frequency of 1KHz.
While on the subject, I don't understand why people are so fixated on ESR. I would argue that D (Dissipation factor) is the better parameter to use, as it is usually quoted on datasheets, not ESR. LCR meters normally give D as the default value on the secondary display, with the measured capacitance on primary.
« Last Edit: February 26, 2013, 12:03:45 am by Wytnucls »
 

Online mikeselectricstuff

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Re: IET DE-5000 LCR Meter in UK
« Reply #8 on: February 25, 2013, 02:21:17 pm »
Although not all, just wonder why a lot of LCR meter designers didn't think of or put in the 100Khz measurement range ?

C'mon, its not like they never read capacitor's datasheet that today mostly are specified tested at 100Khz as standard right ?

Is there any big technical challenges or a brick wall that might made these type of design cost a lot more once reaching 100Khz threshold ?  :-//
There is a 100K version of the Applent, but much more expensive
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Handheld-LCR-L-C-R-Meter-Tester-Touch-Screen-LCD-mini-USB-100KHz-100K-Hz-0-20-/130677789098?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item1e6d00d1aa
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Offline robrenz

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Re: IET DE-5000 LCR Meter in UK
« Reply #9 on: February 25, 2013, 02:23:34 pm »
DE-5000 is 100kHz

Offline kripton2035

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Re: IET DE-5000 LCR Meter in UK
« Reply #10 on: February 25, 2013, 02:48:41 pm »
I've just received a quote from IET for their DE-5000 (I asked if it was available in the UK).
The meter costs $335 but the postage is $140 so the total is $475 and of course there would be VAT (import duty) to pay on top making it $570 or £376. This makes it a lot more than
Any recommendations from UK/Europe based people?
ask them if they do send via USPS it will be cheaper, and who knows sometimes (often) with usps you dont get VAT ...
 

Offline chickenHeadKnob

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Re: IET DE-5000 LCR Meter in UK
« Reply #11 on: February 25, 2013, 07:18:05 pm »

While on the subject, I don't understand why people are so fixated on ESR. I would argue that D (Dissipation factor) is the better parameter to use, as it is usually quoted on datasheets, not ESR. LCR meters normally give D as the default value on the secondary display, with the measured capacitance on primary.

I don't think most  that want an ESR meter have a fetish for ESR, it just that there are so many failing crap caps out there, some which don't exhibit obvious signs of failure. So they want in circuit testing. A kind of magic wand which will point out the baddies. Wether an ESR meter can actually do this effectively could be the subject of a whole 'nother thread.
 

Offline c4757p

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Re: IET DE-5000 LCR Meter in UK
« Reply #12 on: February 25, 2013, 07:42:21 pm »
I don't really think ESR vs D matters for most people. ESR = D XC. My LCR bridge has two scales on the dissipation factor dial: D and D/(2 pi f). Just divide by C to get ESR. I really couldn't care less which one a meter gives as long as it gives one of them.

The only time I can see it actually being important is if you repair a huge number of power supplies - then you would want something with a low enough test voltage for in-circuit tests. But do most of us really spend that much time repairing power supplies? For the rare times I do it, I can desolder one side of the cap.
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Offline BravoV

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Re: IET DE-5000 LCR Meter in UK
« Reply #13 on: February 26, 2013, 03:01:52 am »
Wytnucls, as c4757p summed up, these are just two sides of the same coin.

My question is just simply why they didn't include 100 KHz while designing the circuit or chipset at the 1st place ? Is that because of technical constraint that might inflict higher cost ?

The 100Khz standard is pretty aged in the industry, especially at power cap datasheets.
« Last Edit: February 26, 2013, 03:04:55 am by BravoV »
 


Offline c4757p

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Re: IET DE-5000 LCR Meter in UK
« Reply #15 on: February 26, 2013, 03:20:55 am »
Because shiny.
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Offline grenert

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Re: IET DE-5000 LCR Meter in UK
« Reply #16 on: February 26, 2013, 04:00:12 am »
For me, I care about ESR when I am putting together a (linear) power supply.  I don't care what the absolute ESR of a cap is, but if one cap measures lower ESR than another, I know it will be better at reducing ripple and will likely last longer.
 

Online mikeselectricstuff

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Re: IET DE-5000 LCR Meter in UK
« Reply #17 on: February 26, 2013, 09:20:50 am »
I just got one of these :
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Handheld-LCR-L-C-R-Meter-Tester-Touch-Screen-LCD-mini-USB-10KHz-10K-Hz-0-20-/130677788621?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item1e6d00cfcd
Made by
http://www.applent.com/

OMG, touch screen, why?  :-//

Dave.
Pretty pointless, but you can just ignore it. On an LCR meter I sort of just want 3 buttons marked L C and R.
The UI is a mess - despite all the buttons, and the touchscreen, it still takes several presses to get to what you want.
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Offline BravoV

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Re: IET DE-5000 LCR Meter in UK
« Reply #18 on: February 26, 2013, 09:23:19 am »
Mike, I assume you're going to make a teardown video on this right ?

Online mikeselectricstuff

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Re: IET DE-5000 LCR Meter in UK
« Reply #19 on: February 26, 2013, 03:59:33 pm »
Mike, I assume you're going to make a teardown video on this right ?
Obviously. Bit busy atm though. Insides look pretty OK
« Last Edit: February 26, 2013, 04:19:46 pm by mikeselectricstuff »
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Offline BravoV

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Re: IET DE-5000 LCR Meter in UK
« Reply #20 on: February 26, 2013, 04:49:06 pm »
Mike, I assume you're going to make a teardown video on this right ?
Obviously. Bit busy atm though. Insides look pretty OK
Thanks, thats enough for me to hear, looking forward to watch your video.  :-+

And strangely, I was dreaming somehow you will make a miraculous discovery to hack it easily into 100Khz capable unit and better news, that the firmware hacking is so easy so you can tweak the damn UI you've been cursing.  :-DD  .. j/k

Offline Wytnucls

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Re: IET DE-5000 LCR Meter in UK
« Reply #21 on: February 26, 2013, 06:46:17 pm »
Wytnucls, as c4757p summed up, these are just two sides of the same coin.

My question is just simply why they didn't include 100 KHz while designing the circuit or chipset at the 1st place ? Is that because of technical constraint that might inflict higher cost ?

The 100Khz standard is pretty aged in the industry, especially at power cap datasheets.
There are not 2 sides of the same coin. D is a direct indication of the healthy state of the capacitor. ESR doesn't tell you anything by itself. You have to consult approximate reference tables to find out if the cap is perhaps out of specs. Alternatively, you'd have to work out D anyway, to crosscheck with the published datasheet (D= ESR x 2 x Pi x f x C). Cumbersome calculations if many different caps have to be checked in turn.
In my experience, a good indication to watch for is that any electrolytic cap with a D of 25% or more (0.25) needs to be replaced, especially if the initial rated capacitance has dropped by more than 25%.
If the caps are rated low ESR, a D of more than 10% (0.10) would indicate a failed or failing capacitor.
A capacitance meter with just 2 frequencies would suffice for most testing. All caps datasheets will reference values for either 120Hz or 1 KHz testing frequencies. There are special circumstances though, where testing caps at a higher frequency would be beneficial.
« Last Edit: February 27, 2013, 02:54:24 am by Wytnucls »
 

Offline robrenz

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Re: IET DE-5000 LCR Meter in UK
« Reply #22 on: February 26, 2013, 07:06:19 pm »
If you plan to measure very low inductances with 0.001µH resolution on a 20µH range some meters only give you that at 100kHz.

Offline PA4TIM

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Re: IET DE-5000 LCR Meter in UK
« Reply #23 on: February 26, 2013, 11:20:53 pm »
Wytnucles, finaly some one who understands, i totally agree  :-+
I have several bridges, always use D too.

On topic, i bought a IET DE-5000 recently. It has 100 KHz and gives D, phase, ESR and you can measure Rac that gives you ESR too because it measures Rs and not Z
100 KHz, see Robrenz reaction
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Offline robrenz

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Re: IET DE-5000 LCR Meter in UK
« Reply #24 on: February 27, 2013, 12:07:22 am »
Everybody already knows I am a DE-5000 fanboy  ;D  From what I have seen on the forum so far my enthusiasm is justified %-B 


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