is Saleae logic analyzer still worth it nowadays?

[Porama6400]

็Hello,

I was wondering whether if Saleae Logic Pro 16 LA worth it.
with the student discount, it would cost about 600 USD after shipping.
 
At the moment, I'm only doing basic FPGA stuff at only a few MHz, but I hope I could get something that which can be used in a long run.

[coromonadalix]

Send them an email to see if they are still giving support for their products ??

[Porama6400]

Their support team is pretty responsive.

I've applied for student discount few days ago. I've put in my personal email, they contact me back to ask for my university email.
I provide them the email and they sent me the discount code shortly after.
The entire process completed in like half a day.

on their website, they claimed 3 years warrantee, 180 days return policy.

They software seems to get update periodically too -> https://ideas.saleae.com/f/changelog/

[gussy]

I've bought a lot of Saleae's over the years, since the very first version came out. It's one of the first pieces of equipment I buy when starting at a new job and is part of the on-boarding kit I put together for new members of my team.

If you're spending someone else's money it's a no-brainer. The new alpha software is a few orders of magnitudes better than their original software. The hardware is solid and their support if you ever need it is very responsive.

If you're spending you own money then I would say it depends on your budget. If you can afford it then it's definitely a great tool to have, but there's also a large range of other options out there from <$20 to something like a DSView Logic for $150. Many of those options use Sigrok which isn't as nice as the newer Saleae software, but it gets the job done.

I've said this to the folks at Saleae a few times now, but it would be really nice to see a USB-C connector instead USB 3.0 Type B that almost nothing else uses. It seems like swapping out the connector and modifying the enclosure would be a fairly low effort project, but it still hasn't happened yet. My concern is that they have been working on the "next product" or "next gen logic analyzer" and don't want to spend resources to update the existing hardware, but it's been at least 4-5 years since the "next thing" has been teased so at this point not updating the hardware to a more modern connector just looks a bit complacent from the outside, but maybe there's a good technical reason for why it hasn't been updated, building and selling hardware is hard.

[larsdenmark]

If you just need the 8 port version you can get it really cheap if you are not using the thing professionally:
https://blog.saleae.com/saleae-discounts/

The new software looks very nice, is very responsive and they are adding new things to it very frequently.

[Porama6400]

Logic 8 will run at only 25 Msps at full 8 port though. That won't be enough for long, sadly.

[cgroen]

I have 2 Saleae Pro 16 here. It is the most used test equipment I have and I could not imagine doing my work without it.
I can do 500 MS/s on  3 digital pins and at the same time do 50 MS/s analog sampling on two channels.
One of them I broke the USB connector a little so it would only work sometimes. I wrote to them on their chat function on their web to ask if they could fix it. No problem they said, we will just send you a new one including a shipping label for my own. Thats what I call service!

[rstofer]

Given that Xilinx Vivado now has an Internal Logic Analyzer (ILA) IP, the need for an external unit is somewhat diminished.

https://www.xilinx.com/products/intellectual-property/ila.html

You can build a decent LA from another FPGA like https://www.sump.org/projects/analyzer/

The question is whether the LA board has enough IO and whether it needs level shifting.  I used the Digilent Spartan 3 Starter Board and it had 3 50-pin headers.  I dedicated one to the LA outputs on the target and one to the LA inputs on the LA board.  200 MHz sampling is possible.

The Digilent Digital Discovery is out of stock at the moment but it is a pretty useful tool and can sample at up to 600 MHz.  At least on 24 channels.

https://store.digilentinc.com/digital-discovery-portable-usb-logic-analyzer-and-digital-pattern-generator/

The Digilent Analog Discovery is also out of stock but it is limited to 100 MS/s.  It is my absolute favorite tool

https://store-7gavg.mybigcommerce.com/analog-discovery-2-100msps-usb-oscilloscope-logic-analyzer-and-variable-power-supply/

I also bought one of the cheapo LAs from eBay and it works quite well.  Maybe not for fast FPGA projects but certainly for Pi and Arduino projects.  Something like this:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/USB-Logic-Analyzer-24MHZ-8-Channel-12C-UART-SPI-IIC-CAN-1Wire-Debug-For-ARM-FPGA/124238666414

[Porama6400]

Given that Xilinx Vivado now has an Internal Logic Analyzer (ILA) IP, the need for an external unit is somewhat diminished.

https://www.xilinx.com/products/intellectual-property/ila.html

You can build a decent LA from another FPGA like https://www.sump.org/projects/analyzer/

The question is whether the LA board has enough IO and whether it needs level shifting.  I used the Digilent Spartan 3 Starter Board and it had 3 50-pin headers.  I dedicated one to the LA outputs on the target and one to the LA inputs on the LA board.  200 MHz sampling is possible.

The Digilent Digital Discovery is out of stock at the moment but it is a pretty useful tool and can sample at up to 600 MHz.  At least on 24 channels.

https://store.digilentinc.com/digital-discovery-portable-usb-logic-analyzer-and-digital-pattern-generator/

The Digilent Analog Discovery is also out of stock but it is limited to 100 MS/s.  It is my absolute favorite tool

https://store-7gavg.mybigcommerce.com/analog-discovery-2-100msps-usb-oscilloscope-logic-analyzer-and-variable-power-supply/

I also bought one of the cheapo LAs from eBay and it works quite well.  Maybe not for fast FPGA projects but certainly for Pi and Arduino projects.  Something like this:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/USB-Logic-Analyzer-24MHZ-8-Channel-12C-UART-SPI-IIC-CAN-1Wire-Debug-For-ARM-FPGA/124238666414

It seems like Xilinx ILA only do 12 Msps unfortunately

How is digilent software for Digital Discovery? How often do they release software update?

[Mark19960]

I personally still use one despite having several MSOs sitting here.
If I need to use the MSO (to grab something analog at the time time) then I use one.

That said, I still use the older logic 1.2 software because the newer 2.x stuff .... yeah it has a lot of neat new features but I can't get used to it.

I bought mine years and years ago..... and it still works with the newest software.
And for that reason I am really considering buying the latest and greatest logic 16 pro to replace my really old non-pro logic.

I can't see myself using another tool. Worth every penny to me.

[cgroen]

I personally still use one despite having several MSOs sitting here.
If I need to use the MSO (to grab something analog at the time time) then I use one.

That said, I still use the older logic 1.2 software because the newer 2.x stuff .... yeah it has a lot of neat new features but I can't get used to it.

I bought mine years and years ago..... and it still works with the newest software.
And for that reason I am really considering buying the latest and greatest logic 16 pro to replace my really old non-pro logic.

I can't see myself using another tool. Worth every penny to me.

Welcome to the club, I never understood the 2.x, it is slow and bloated. I run 1.2.29 and will probably do forever

[Porama6400]

I personally still use one despite having several MSOs sitting here.
If I need to use the MSO (to grab something analog at the time time) then I use one.

That said, I still use the older logic 1.2 software because the newer 2.x stuff .... yeah it has a lot of neat new features but I can't get used to it.

I bought mine years and years ago..... and it still works with the newest software.
And for that reason I am really considering buying the latest and greatest logic 16 pro to replace my really old non-pro logic.

I can't see myself using another tool. Worth every penny to me.

Welcome to the club, I never understood the 2.x, it is slow and bloated. I run 1.2.29 and will probably do forever

2.X is still on alpha stage, isn't it?

[gussy]

2.X is still on alpha stage, isn't it?

It is, although it's been in alpha for quite a while. Version 2 is based on web technologies, it's basically a stripped down chrome browser (aka. electron) just like many other popular apps these days. I haven't had any performance issues on 1-2 year old hardware, it feels snappy and more responsive than the the old version (mostly from the updated UI interactions), but if you're on an older PC then you will probably notice a performance hit over the original native C# based v1 software.

[RoGeorge]

็Hello,

I was wondering whether if Saleae Logic Pro 16 LA worth it.
with the student discount, it would cost about 600 USD after shipping.
 
At the moment, I'm only doing basic FPGA stuff at only a few MHz, but I hope I could get something that which can be used in a long run.

No it doesn't worth the money.

Then, you'll never need one.  Certainly not for high speed FPGA designs.  This is not the way to debug an FPGA design.  Either use a simulation, or use ChipScope https://www.xilinx.com/products/intellectual-property/chipscope_ila.html or something similar.

Nobody in the industry is using a logic analyzer for debugging, and if it were to work at high speed, the reflections alone will render any logic analyzer useless.  I'm seeing logic analyzers rather as a didactic toy.

Use those money for an oscilloscope that can software decode serial protocols.  You'll never need more.  If you don't believe you'll never need more, that's fine, but just postpone the buy until there will be no way for you to progress without buying one.  I made the mistake buying a DSlogic a few years ago, thinking I'll need it one day.  Tested it once, and never used it since.  It would be just a waste of time, and at high speed is misleading because of reflections and changes in impedance inflicted on the circuit you want to test.

If you insist to have a logic analyzer, then a DSlogic is much cheaper, about $50..100 USD.

[voltsandjolts]

just postpone the buy until there will be no way for you to progress without buying one

 

[ebclr]

Consider  this one as a second option

https://www.dreamsourcelab.com/

[cgroen]

Consider  this one as a second option

https://www.dreamsourcelab.com/

I had just a look at the DSLogic (and DSScope), the DSLogic it says that it can (max) do 16G/channels in stream mode. Does this mean that it can not stream "forever" to the connected PC ?
I use this feature on Saleae a lot where I collect data for many seconds or minutes. I would be tempted though to get both a DSLogic and DSScope in the near future, seems to be not too bad!

[Porama6400]

็Hello,

I was wondering whether if Saleae Logic Pro 16 LA worth it.
with the student discount, it would cost about 600 USD after shipping.
 
At the moment, I'm only doing basic FPGA stuff at only a few MHz, but I hope I could get something that which can be used in a long run.

No it doesn't worth the money.

Then, you'll never need one.  Certainly not for high speed FPGA designs.  This is not the way to debug an FPGA design.  Either use a simulation, or use ChipScope https://www.xilinx.com/products/intellectual-property/chipscope_ila.html or something similar.

Nobody in the industry is using a logic analyzer for debugging, and if it were to work at high speed, the reflections alone will render any logic analyzer useless.  I'm seeing logic analyzers rather as a didactic toy.

Use those money for an oscilloscope that can software decode serial protocols.  You'll never need more.  If you don't believe you'll never need more, that's fine, but just postpone the buy until there will be no way for you to progress without buying one.  I made the mistake buying a DSlogic a few years ago, thinking I'll need it one day.  Tested it once, and never used it since.  It would be just a waste of time, and at high speed is misleading because of reflections and changes in impedance inflicted on the circuit you want to test.

If you insist to have a logic analyzer, then a DSlogic is much cheaper, about $50..100 USD.

That's a very interesting point

Consider  this one as a second option

https://www.dreamsourcelab.com/

I had just a look at the DSLogic (and DSScope), the DSLogic it says that it can (max) do 16G/channels in stream mode. Does this mean that it can not stream "forever" to the connected PC ?
I use this feature on Saleae a lot where I collect data for many seconds or minutes. I would be tempted though to get both a DSLogic and DSScope in the near future, seems to be not too bad!

I've also been considering DSLogic
max 16G per channel in streaming mode would be a no from me though
also, I've just notice that DSLogic input impedance is only 250Kohm?!

[Elasia]

Completely depends on what you are doing, I actually have a https://www.ikalogic.com/sp209-logic-analyzer/ with its triggers paired with my scope

If you are actively involved with com protocols and any form of mechatronics then its pretty handy to have one you can timebase sync

[Porama6400]

Consider  this one as a second option

https://www.dreamsourcelab.com/

I had just a look at the DSLogic (and DSScope), the DSLogic it says that it can (max) do 16G/channels in stream mode. Does this mean that it can not stream "forever" to the connected PC ?
I use this feature on Saleae a lot where I collect data for many seconds or minutes. I would be tempted though to get both a DSLogic and DSScope in the near future, seems to be not too bad!

I've contacted them, they've confirmed that it won't stream forever unfortunately

"In stream mode, you can only use 1Gsps for 3 channels.
So it can stream 3 channel at full 1Gsps for more than 5 second."

I assume "more than 5 second." means 16G/3G = 5.3333 seconds
that ruins the point of streaming though

I've bought a lot of Saleae's over the years, since the very first version came out. It's one of the first pieces of equipment I buy when starting at a new job and is part of the on-boarding kit I put together for new members of my team.

If you're spending someone else's money it's a no-brainer. The new alpha software is a few orders of magnitudes better than their original software. The hardware is solid and their support if you ever need it is very responsive.

If you're spending you own money then I would say it depends on your budget. If you can afford it then it's definitely a great tool to have, but there's also a large range of other options out there from <$20 to something like a DSView Logic for $150. Many of those options use Sigrok which isn't as nice as the newer Saleae software, but it gets the job done.

I've said this to the folks at Saleae a few times now, but it would be really nice to see a USB-C connector instead USB 3.0 Type B that almost nothing else uses. It seems like swapping out the connector and modifying the enclosure would be a fairly low effort project, but it still hasn't happened yet. My concern is that they have been working on the "next product" or "next gen logic analyzer" and don't want to spend resources to update the existing hardware, but it's been at least 4-5 years since the "next thing" has been teased so at this point not updating the hardware to a more modern connector just looks a bit complacent from the outside, but maybe there's a good technical reason for why it hasn't been updated, building and selling hardware is hard.

I've contacted Saleae. The guy who answers me said as far as he knows, there's no upcoming hardware and they are focusing at Logic 2 software at the moment.

[Psi]

Their support team is pretty responsive.

I can second this, they were awesome when i emailed them a few years back with an issue  (my fault).

[alank2]

Saleae is definitely my "go to" device for projects.  I've got or had most of their products (I think I just love messing around with logic analyzers).  The Pro 16 is my favorite because it has USB3 bandwidth and plenty of channels.  I'm still getting used to the V2 software, and I will admit to feeling some hesitation about performance when I found out it would be browser based, but my experience with the V2 has been snappy and fast so my fears were unfounded.  The best thing about Saleae though is their attitude and support - they are definitely a company that will go the distance on trying to solve any problem you come up with.  My only gripe is the price, but when you look at the overall picture of hardware and software support, very worthwhile to me.  Also, they have special pricing depending on your situation.

Here is a picture of what I've been messing with - a parallel port to microSD project for older computers.  I'm actually using a couple of older Logic16 first generation Saleae's and if you notice, I made a custom pcb to adapt the 1st generation port on it to use 2nd generation wiring harnesses.  The bottom project is an Enigma M4 emulation - using 5 LED's and 6 buttons - it is binary!

[alank2]

By the way everyone, if you haven't checked out their new Logic 2 software, it is very polished.  I've been using it on a floppy drive project on a reproduction Altair 8800 I've been messing with.  At first I didn't think anything could pry the Logic 1 software from my fingers, but I was wrong.

[rsjsouza]

Lots of people at work have one - company money, of course.

A few years ago I was looking for LA options and, despite the Saleae was quite impressive, the price steered me out of it (my own money). I just didn't want to buy a clone and rip off their software, so I looked around and found out the Kingst LA2016, which was a good compromise.