How much noise floor and other things matter in oscilloscope usability

[Fungus]

Thanks. Till you liberate it is still an option. However, you are right too. Most probably it is not a big issue if you are not afraid of warranty validity risks.

The hacks can be easily removed, leaving no trace.

[ozkarah]

Thanks. Till you liberate it is still an option. However, you are right too. Most probably it is not a big issue if you are not afraid of warranty validity risks.

The hacks can be easily removed, leaving no trace.

 
That's good to know. I read a lot of discussions about that but not a clear answer or description.
Can you pls elaborate on how it is done for Siglent SDS2000X Plus series?

I have an SDS2104X Plus and I didn't hack any option yet.
I succeeded in backing up all configuration files from the scope. Is that enough? 

[Fungus]

Can you pls elaborate on how it is done for Siglent SDS2000X Plus series?

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sds2000x-plus-hack/msg3526524/#msg3526524

[ozkarah]

Can you pls elaborate on how it is done for Siglent SDS2000X Plus series?

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sds2000x-plus-hack/msg3526524/#msg3526524

Couldn't find any info on reaching that menu. Does anyone know?

[2N3055]

Can you pls elaborate on how it is done for Siglent SDS2000X Plus series?

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sds2000x-plus-hack/msg3526524/#msg3526524

Couldn't find any info on reaching that menu. Does anyone know?

It's in a Utility menu. Download the manual and spend some time just browsing around on the scope. It will help you remember where things are. It is like music, you need to play basic scales first to memorize where things are...

EDIT: Wasn't paying attention. I thought it was normal info menu.. Sorry..

[tautech]

Can you pls elaborate on how it is done for Siglent SDS2000X Plus series?

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sds2000x-plus-hack/msg3526524/#msg3526524

Couldn't find any info on reaching that menu. Does anyone know?

It's in a Utility menu. Download the manual and spend some time just browsing around on the scope. It will help you remember where things are. It is like music, you need to play basic scales first to memorize where things are...

Well not quite.
The menu shown is added to with a magic USB stick that permits resetall options to Nil and resettimes of free option uses to the standard 30.
This is distributor only stuff and from those that discovered it buried deep in Siglent code.
Even the Siglent scope product manager was quite shocked I had a copy as it's reserved for EU and NA service centers. 

However for those that buy these scopes and plan to hack them the Python code is the simplest way to get all the options and BW upgrades.

[Fungus]

Couldn't find any info on reaching that menu. Does anyone know?

Just be happy that it can be done!

(and cross fingers that you never need to...)

[cdev]

That "noise" may be naturally present and you may simply not be used to having instruments with high input impedance's.

Roll that around a bit in your mind, and experimentally, determine if its the case.

Don't sour on a perfectly good instrument because its input is showing you occasional high voltages present in your environment. The fact is, often, they are there.

On the other hand, sometimes noise isnt there and if an instrument shows annoying amounts of noise, obscuring real measurements then its a problem. How to differentiate? Dave or others here who have lots of experience testing instruments should answer that.

I could show you however that when turned on my (quite decent) Uni-T multimeter set to voltage or the input on my Tek scope, both show lots of voltage is present when the input is not connected to anything. I.e. floating. In my kitchen for some reason, there always is a lot. It just varies, randomly. I could make a video to show how nuts it acts.

Whats cooking? Nothing, right now. I actually often use my kitchen table as a workbench. The situation is never a problem for me.

Hello,
I am in the process to "buy" an oscilloscope and I really need some clarification because, even if I've read almost everything I have been able to find on the web and on this forum, there are some technical things I cannot sort out by my self.

For example the noise floor:
In what situation really matter to have an oscilloscope with a "low" noise floor?

I am going to use It for many different things, I am a "begginer" but I do digital stuff with embedded electronics and I also aim to learn more things as possible about analog electronics starting from working on an old valve radio that i would like to repair and experiment with.

Actually I bought few days ago a Rigol mso5000 and I did not be aware about its noisy front end.
After a lot of searching on the web and experimenting with such instrument It seem to me that It is at least 3 times more noisy than other comparabile oscilloscopes.

So how much this matter in electronics? How this could preclude its usability?

I have still about 30 days to give It back for free to Amazon but only one week to decide if I want to buy its direct competitor siglent "sds2000x plus" that now Is on offer with the LA probe discount bundle until 30dicember.

The Siglent appear to have a low noise front end but a different way to handle signal recording in its internal memory that i don't understand if it Is bad due to the fact that It cannot "zoom out"...

Also the Rigol has a very fast ADC when working in interleaved mode but at the same time I still don't understand if 8 Gsa/s are really needed with frequency up to 500Mhz and maybe the Siglent with Its 2Gsa/s is enough.... I don't find clear infos on the web apart the nyquist theorem.

I would be gratefull if someone with experience could help me because all this matter a lot for me, electronics has been in my heart from when I was young and I am keen to improve as best as possible day after day....

Thank you

I have a bitscope with an MSO function. Here at my workbench, plugging it in, you might think it was defective.

But if I connect it to electronics, usually the measurements make sense.

its actually just what it picks up normally.

They all only pick up this stuff when a probe is connected to the input and extended out a bit. Yes, that kind of is noise, as I complain about it with reason when I am trying to receive radio signals. It is noisy.

I live in New Jersey, near all sorts of activities. My fellow residents, industrial activities. Lots of people have wifi. Internet. various appliances, home workshops.

[2N3055]

That "noise" may be naturally present and you may simply not be used to having instruments with high input impedance's.

Roll that around a bit in your mind, and experimentally, determine if its the case.

Don't sour on a perfectly good instrument because its input is showing you occasional high voltages present in your environment. The fact is, often, they are there.

On the other hand, sometimes noise isnt there and if an instrument shows annoying amounts of noise, obscuring real measurements then its a problem. How to differentiate? Dave or others here who have lots of experience testing instruments should answer that.

I could show you however that when turned on my (quite decent) Uni-T multimeter set to voltage or the input on my Tek scope, both show lots of voltage is present when the input is not connected to anything. I.e. floating. In my kitchen for some reason, there always is a lot. It just varies, randomly. I could make a video to show how nuts it acts.

Whats cooking? Nothing, right now. I actually often use my kitchen table as a workbench. The situation is never a problem for me.

Hello,
I am in the process to "buy" an oscilloscope and I really need some clarification because, even if I've read almost everything I have been able to find on the web and on this forum, there are some technical things I cannot sort out by my self.

For example the noise floor:
In what situation really matter to have an oscilloscope with a "low" noise floor?

I am going to use It for many different things, I am a "begginer" but I do digital stuff with embedded electronics and I also aim to learn more things as possible about analog electronics starting from working on an old valve radio that i would like to repair and experiment with.

Actually I bought few days ago a Rigol mso5000 and I did not be aware about its noisy front end.
After a lot of searching on the web and experimenting with such instrument It seem to me that It is at least 3 times more noisy than other comparabile oscilloscopes.

So how much this matter in electronics? How this could preclude its usability?

I have still about 30 days to give It back for free to Amazon but only one week to decide if I want to buy its direct competitor siglent "sds2000x plus" that now Is on offer with the LA probe discount bundle until 30dicember.

The Siglent appear to have a low noise front end but a different way to handle signal recording in its internal memory that i don't understand if it Is bad due to the fact that It cannot "zoom out"...

Also the Rigol has a very fast ADC when working in interleaved mode but at the same time I still don't understand if 8 Gsa/s are really needed with frequency up to 500Mhz and maybe the Siglent with Its 2Gsa/s is enough.... I don't find clear infos on the web apart the nyquist theorem.

I would be gratefull if someone with experience could help me because all this matter a lot for me, electronics has been in my heart from when I was young and I am keen to improve as best as possible day after day....

Thank you

I have a bitscope with an MSO function. Here at my workbench, plugging it in, you might think it was defective.

But if I connect it to electronics, usually the measurements make sense.

its actually just what it picks up normally.

They all only pick up this stuff when a probe is connected to the input and extended out a bit. Yes, that kind of is noise, as I complain about it with reason when I am trying to receive radio signals. It is noisy.

I live in New Jersey, near all sorts of activities. My fellow residents, industrial activities. Lots of people have wifi. Internet. various appliances, home workshops.

Nope, not that kind of "noise".
We are talking about noise inherent into scope, that will show even if you put a short BNC plug right at the BNC input.

Not the work environment noise.. That is a whole different can of worms...

[tautech]

I have a bitscope with an MSO function. Here at my workbench, plugging it in, you might think it was defective.

But if I connect it to electronics, usually the measurements make sense.

its actually just what it picks up normally.

They all only pick up this stuff when a probe is connected to the input and extended out a bit. Yes, that kind of is noise, as I complain about it with reason when I am trying to receive radio signals. It is noisy.

I live in New Jersey, near all sorts of activities. My fellow residents, industrial activities. Lots of people have wifi. Internet. various appliances, home workshops.

Nope, not that kind of "noise".
We are talking about noise inherent into scope, that will show even if you put a short BNC plug right at the BNC input.

Not the work environment noise.. That is a whole different can of worms...

Well yes, not everybody gets that when you connect a probe to a scope suddenly there is noise displayed especially at high input sensitivities. 
Then when they connect to a DUT and the noise goes away they think there's something wrong with the scope. 

Recently we had a customer send a scope back when he couldn't get his head around these basic principles and even when screenshots sent him from a different model displayed similar noise.
We'll not have a customer that isn't happy with one of our instruments so refunded his money and insisted any further instrument he collected in person and tried before he purchased.

Another more experienced customer was almost tearing his hair out however he had a clearer mind and after some insistence the scope was not faulty he finally found a unknown wallwart behind a curtain spewing all manner of EMI/RFI out and corrupting his measurements. 

The more enlightened of us use this EMI/RFI input sensitivity to advantage especially when tuning a small motor such as a chainsaw where it's hardly a demanding task for a scopes frequency readout that needs to read 200 Hz for an equivalent 12,000 RPM. 

[ozkarah]

Can you pls elaborate on how it is done for Siglent SDS2000X Plus series?

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sds2000x-plus-hack/msg3526524/#msg3526524

Couldn't find any info on reaching that menu. Does anyone know?

It's in a Utility menu. Download the manual and spend some time just browsing around on the scope. It will help you remember where things are. It is like music, you need to play basic scales first to memorize where things are...

Well not quite.
The menu shown is added to with a magic USB stick that permits resetall options to Nil and resettimes of free option uses to the standard 30.
This is distributor only stuff and from those that discovered it buried deep in Siglent code.
Even the Siglent scope product manager was quite shocked I had a copy as it's reserved for EU and NA service centers. 

However for those that buy these scopes and plan to hack them the Python code is the simplest way to get all the options and BW upgrades.

In some screenshots, I saw that after the hack scope serial and scope ID are lost/empty. Is this issue still happening? And is there a procedure to follow both to have this issue ?

 

[ozkarah]

Can you pls elaborate on how it is done for Siglent SDS2000X Plus series?

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sds2000x-plus-hack/msg3526524/#msg3526524

Couldn't find any info on reaching that menu. Does anyone know?

It's in a Utility menu. Download the manual and spend some time just browsing around on the scope. It will help you remember where things are. It is like music, you need to play basic scales first to memorize where things are...

Well not quite.
The menu shown is added to with a magic USB stick that permits resetall options to Nil and resettimes of free option uses to the standard 30.
This is distributor only stuff and from those that discovered it buried deep in Siglent code.
Even the Siglent scope product manager was quite shocked I had a copy as it's reserved for EU and NA service centers. 

However for those that buy these scopes and plan to hack them the Python code is the simplest way to get all the options and BW upgrades.

(Attachment Link)

In some screenshots, I saw that after the hack scope serial and scope ID are lost/empty. Is this issue still happening? And is there a procedure to follow both to have this issue ?

Never mind. The upgrade worked like a charm. No issues at all.