Hioki DT4282 or Brymen BM869s digital multimeter - which is the best choice?

[Wytnucls]

An electrician and a power electronics engineer never use the current measuring ranges in high energy circuits.
One always uses current clamps.
I doubt about the need of such ABS, Automatic Blocking Socket.

Would they use the current ranges in low energy circuits? If yes, the classic mistake is to leave the probes in the current range while trying to measure a high energy voltage later, possibly with dire consequences, hence the blocking system.
If they don't use the current ranges at all, there are safer and cheaper meters built without current ranges, alleviating the need for misuse protection.
Clamps aren't very accurate in DC mode, especially in the mA/uA range.

[Wytnucls]

LG DM-333

I don't think LG makes their own meters. it says patent pending. Did they ever get it?

[TheBay]

Yes they used to make their own, I worked for LG Electronics as a head engineer in the South Wales plant, we were issued with those meters.
No idea if they got it, I swear there are patent numbers on the back of it, I threw it out the other day as I left it in the boot of a damp car which ruined it!

LG DM-333

I don't think LG makes their own meters. it says patent pending. Did they ever get it?

[Wytnucls]

Here is a Goldstar version:
I don't see the 10A jack being blocked. Perhaps the blanking system was slightly different.

[TheBay]

It's exactly the same, the plate is a little lower in the hole, you can't physically put a probe in it.

Here is a Goldstar version:
I don't see the 10A jack being blocked. Perhaps the blanking system was slightly different.

[oldway]

Would they use the current ranges in low energy circuits? If yes, the classic mistake is to leave the probes in the current range while trying to measure a high energy voltage later, possibly with dire consequences, hence the blocking system.
If they don't use the current ranges at all, there are safer and cheaper meters built without current ranges, alleviating the need for misuse protection.
Clamps aren't very accurate in DC mode, especially in the mA/uA range.

In low energy circuits, there is nothing very dangerous to simply burn a fuse...the blocking system does not protect against misuse...you can let your probes on current inputs, your range selector in DC or AC current and try to measure voltage.
For measuring low current with a clamp meter, you use 10 turns and you read 10x the current.

[Robomeds]

Another reason the Hioki meter is expensive is that Gossen holds the patent for the input blanking system (ABS, Automatic Blocking Socket) and Hioki probably has to pay royalties to Gossen. Something Fluke and others are not willing to do.

http://patents.justia.com/assignee/gossen-metrawatt-gmbh

My guess is that the first company to do this probably could write a pretty strong patent.  The others might be able to work around it or they might have paid to use it.  With out reading the details of the 1994 patent I'm not sure if it's strong or not.  It also is certainly expired by now.  I'm not sure how long patents last in Europe (or Germany).  In the US we recently changed from 17 years from date of issue to 20 from date of filing.  If Europe is like that then we would figure that 1994 issued patent was filed in 1990 or 1991 which means it's been expired for at least a few years.  Of course meter development cycles aren't quick.  Anyway, the subsequent patents would be smaller add on things and are likely only going to protect the specific implementation. 

I recall the way LG did their block (I've handled the meter shown above).  It used a small tab that blocked the shroud of the plug but not the actual conductive part.  I also recall Sears using these covers on some cheaper meters (full covers, not the blocking tab).  Either the ODM for Sears figured out how to work around the IP or Gossen was willing to license it for a reasonable fee.  Either way, I don't think the shroud would be a big deal to work around.
 

[Wytnucls]

Would they use the current ranges in low energy circuits? If yes, the classic mistake is to leave the probes in the current range while trying to measure a high energy voltage later, possibly with dire consequences, hence the blocking system.
If they don't use the current ranges at all, there are safer and cheaper meters built without current ranges, alleviating the need for misuse protection.
Clamps aren't very accurate in DC mode, especially in the mA/uA range.

In low energy circuits, there is nothing very dangerous to simply burn a fuse...the blocking system does not protect against misuse...you can let your probes on current inputs, your range selector in DC or AC current and try to measure voltage.
For measuring low current with a clamp meter, you use 10 turns and you read 10x the current.

You didn't read my post properly. Of course low energy circuits are not the problem. Manufacturers are trying to protect the user with aural signals, visual clues or blocking systems, against misuse with high energy connections.
10 turns, really? Try to do that with the existing circuit in situ. If you have to break the circuit to add extra length to the wiring, you may as well connect your ammeter or shunt for an accurate reading.

[Fat]

To answer the original question... HIOKI DT4282 all the way.

That is in fact a nice looking meter.

[buyman]

Are you guys still happy with your DT4282? Unfortunately it's more expensive now (£329,99, so ~430€ with shipping) and so I'm not sure which DMM I should buy myself as a birthday present.
Basically a decision between expensive (DT4282, U1272A - both ~400€) to less expensive (BM869 at 240€) to "cheap" (UT71D at 140€).

[pascal_sweden]

The Brymen has 500.000 counts, while the Hioki has only 60.000 counts, still the Hioki is much more expensive. How come?

[CustomEngineerer]

The Brymen has 500.000 counts, while the Hioki has only 60.000 counts, still the Hioki is much more expensive. How come?

Because counts isn't the only thing that goes into coming up with the price.

[buyman]

Because counts isn't the only thing that goes into coming up with the price.

Yes, that's the point. There's also accuracy (which is similar on the above mentioned multimeters), build quality, and also the fact of a "known" brand ...

[Johnny Electron]

It depends on what you plan on using the meter for.  The Brymen is probably more durable if your meter takes a hit how and then.  They are both excellent meters and you would be happy with either one.  Personally I would get the Hioki because it's truly a slice of multimeter heaven.  Lightning fast stable readings and a flawless build quality. (to me anyways.. )

[pascal_sweden]

National Museum of The Great Multimeter Collection

[joeqsmith]

I had looked at the 4282.  Was a little concerned with the nS mode's accuracy.  Spec'ed at > 20nS.   Like the differential temperature measurement on the UT181A and the BM869s.  4282 does not have it.  Was surprised they did not have a nice fast high res bar graph like the 869s and 181a  but no big deal. 

I like the little HIOKI.  Knew of the brand before I bought it.  Pretty much what I was expecting.  Very robust top notch meter. 

[helius]

If they don't use the current ranges at all, there are safer and cheaper meters built without current ranges, alleviating the need for misuse protection.
Clamps aren't very accurate in DC mode, especially in the mA/uA range.

I have a Metrix MX57 Ex, a meter designed for use in explosive atmospheres. It has no Amps range, and the Amps jack is blanked off. It does have a µA/mA range. The reasoning seems to be that the Amps range has a low impedance, so touching the probes to any circuit could cause them to spark.

Another safety feature, that is related to jack shutters, is the use of split-pin jacks for probe detection. If a lead is plugged into the jack, it completes the circuit between the split pin, which is checked depending on the current mode. If the wrong jack is used (either in Amps when in mode ¬Current, or not in Amps when Current), the meter beeps constantly and shows a "PROBE" error. My APPA meter has that.

[zaoka]

It depends on what you plan on using the meter for.  The Brymen is probably more durable if your meter takes a hit how and then.  They are both excellent meters and you would be happy with either one.  Personally I would get the Hioki because it's truly a slice of multimeter heaven.  Lightning fast stable readings and a flawless build quality. (to me anyways.. )

You could do a video review of 4282 

[raptor1956]

For me the price difference is prohibitive for the Hioki.  Seems the best deal in the USA that I could find in a few minutes of looking is about $396USD with Amazon being at $495USD.  The BM869S, OTH, can be had for a bit over $224USD from TME.  So, the Hioki is 2X give or take over the Brymen.


Brian

[coromonadalix]

the Brymen is not a normal 500,000 count,  IT is a real 50,000 count dmm WITH an 500,000 count in DCV, Mv, and hz measurements,  not in all the ranges ...