Hioki DT4282 or Brymen BM869s digital multimeter - which is the best choice?

[nanofrog]

I think I might go with the BM867/BM869 after reading up on meters for too long now lol!

You haven't stated AFAIK, so I have to ask... Do you need/want to interface the meter with a computer for logging purposes?

If so, the Brymen will be the better value (Brymen makes a fine meter, and the data interface kits are reasonably priced).   

I just happen to be interested in the Hioki because I don't have one (have Fluke, Agilent, and Brymen). 

[TheBay]

No not interested in logging really, it's for repair and project work.
Nice to have on there, but would be more of a gadget that I may play with one day or may not

I think I might go with the BM867/BM869 after reading up on meters for too long now lol!

You haven't stated AFAIK, so I have to ask... Do you need/want to interface the meter with a computer for logging purposes?

If so, the Brymen will be the better value (Brymen makes a fine meter, and the data interface kits are reasonably priced).   

I just happen to be interested in the Hioki because I don't have one (have Fluke, Agilent, and Brymen). 

[pascal_sweden]

I have a solution if you can not choose between them:

Just buy both the Hioki DT4282 and the Brymen BM869s! Problem solved!

[mos6502]

No not interested in logging really, it's for repair and project work.

Are you sure you need the accuracy and precision of those meters for that? Have you considered the UT139C? It's quite a good quality meter and probably only half the size of the Brymen. Stay away from Uni-Turd at all costs.

[TheBay]

Yes I do need the accuracy, no thanks to Uni-T

No not interested in logging really, it's for repair and project work.

Are you sure you need the accuracy and precision of those meters for that? Have you considered the UT139C? It's quite a good quality meter and probably only half the size of the Brymen.

[PChi]

I have just blown £221 (plus VAT) on a Hioki DT4282 to replace a very old Hung Chang 7030. My initial impressions are positive with the battery compartment and fuses accessible without exposing anything else. The probes supplied are OK. The instruction manual covers everything that I can think of and the Normal and Common Mode 50 Hz/ 60Hz rejection is specified.
Not being Dave I am not brave enough to pull it apart. I don't have access to any calibration equipment so can't tell if it meets the specifications. It's a pity that Hioki haven't sent a meter for Dave for review.

The UNI-T looks similar to a Tenma Multimeter that I have used that has rubbish 4 mm sockets which has caused intermittent connections, true after some use. The Tenma sockets appear to be split into two which I presume is how it detects when the probes are plugged in. That's a bad idea because it relies on the plug having many points of contact with the socket of which some are unavailable for conducting current. They also probably rely on the surrounding plastic for support.
The Tenma Ohms range has an automatic zeroing function. I like to know what low resistance I am measuring and am prepared to make allowances for lead resistances, not have the multimeter make it's own decision.
Another Tenma major drawback (I consider it a fail) is sensitivity to 50 Hz common mode noise when measuring high impedance battery powered circuits.

[rvalente]

I have just blown £221 (plus VAT) on a Hioki DT4282 to replace a very old Hung Chang 7030. My initial impressions are positive with the battery compartment and fuses accessible without exposing anything else. The probes supplied are OK. The instruction manual covers everything that I can think of and the Normal and Common Mode 50 Hz/ 60Hz rejection is specified.
Not being Dave I am not brave enough to pull it apart. I don't have access to any calibration equipment so can't tell if it meets the specifications. It's a pity that Hioki haven't sent a meter for Dave for review.

The UNI-T looks similar to a Tenma Multimeter that I have used that has rubbish 4 mm sockets which has caused intermittent connections, true after some use. The Tenma sockets appear to be split into two which I presume is how it detects when the probes are plugged in. That's a bad idea because it relies on the plug having many points of contact with the socket of which some are unavailable for conducting current. They also probably rely on the surrounding plastic for support.
The Tenma Ohms range has an automatic zeroing function. I like to know what low resistance I am measuring and am prepared to make allowances for lead resistances, not have the multimeter make it's own decision.
Another Tenma major drawback (I consider it a fail) is sensitivity to 50 Hz common mode noise when measuring high impedance battery powered circuits.

Please do a detailed review, this DMM looks so sexy and great! I believe its a brandy name compare with Fluke and Gossen, apples to apples.

Please do a detailed teardown as well.

[PChi]

I have just blown £221 (plus VAT) on a Hioki DT4282 to replace a very old Hung Chang 7030. My initial impressions are positive with the battery compartment and fuses accessible without exposing anything else. The probes supplied are OK. The instruction manual covers everything that I can think of and the Normal and Common Mode 50 Hz/ 60Hz rejection is specified.
Not being Dave I am not brave enough to pull it apart. I don't have access to any calibration equipment so can't tell if it meets the specifications. It's a pity that Hioki haven't sent a meter for Dave for review.

The UNI-T looks similar to a Tenma Multimeter that I have used that has rubbish 4 mm sockets which has caused intermittent connections, true after some use. The Tenma sockets appear to be split into two which I presume is how it detects when the probes are plugged in. That's a bad idea because it relies on the plug having many points of contact with the socket of which some are unavailable for conducting current. They also probably rely on the surrounding plastic for support.
The Tenma Ohms range has an automatic zeroing function. I like to know what low resistance I am measuring and am prepared to make allowances for lead resistances, not have the multimeter make it's own decision.
Another Tenma major drawback (I consider it a fail) is sensitivity to 50 Hz common mode noise when measuring high impedance battery powered circuits.

Please do a detailed review, this DMM looks so sexy and great! I believe its a brandy name compare with Fluke and Gossen, apples to apples.

Please do a detailed teardown as well.

I am sorry I just want to turn in on, not take it apart because I don't want to risk disturbing the calibration. I don't have a calibration source or an more accurate meter so can't check the accuracy or reset it if I change it. I can say that the continuity test responds quickly as advertised in the Hioki video.

[rvalente]

Ahhhhhh  feeling disappointed here...

Well, there is no harm to do a detailed review without open the little Japanese guy...

(or you could borrow to Dave for one or two days...  )

[PChi]

Ahhhhhh  feeling disappointed here...

Well, there is no harm to do a detailed review without open the little Japanese guy...

(or you could borrow to Dave for one or two days...  )

Dave is too far away. If there is anyone reasonably close to Staines Upon Thames (say 50 miles) with a calibrator or even with a reasonably accurate meter that I can use for comparison then I can check the accuracy claims. It's many years since I worked at a company that manufactured panel meters and had acccess to a Time Electronics Calibrator.

[Wytnucls]

It is pointless and tiresome to verify accuracy claims on new quality meters. It would be more interesting to demonstrate the meter's unusual features, like the low burden voltage, auto hold automatic logging, port blanking system, diode testing, fast continuity and screen viewing quality.
None of that requires sophisticated lab instruments.

[PChi]

The burden voltage on the 10 A range was 230 mV with 6.268 A = 37 mohm (Thurlby Thandar PL330DP current limits at maximum with the channels connected in parallel.) The specification is 10 mohms plus fuse at 0.1 ohm or less. I think that the resistance will increase with time and also at the maximum current of 10 A when the fuses heats up. I am reluctant to run the Thurlby Thandar into a short circuit at maximum current for long to test.
The Auto hold works as expected. It's necessary to hold the probes on for what seems like 1s for the meter to decide that the voltage is stable and then beeps when it has acquired a reading. So handy when taking measurements say balanced on top of a ladder but not of much use in the lab.
The Port Blanking system operates as expected. If a lead is left plugged into the current range input the lead needs to be unplugged to turn the meter off which is slightly annoying but is needed for protection. I have blown up Fluke current shunts before now (It was a long time ago and the high current range wasn't fused).
The diode test open circuit voltage was rather high at 4.35 V but inside the specification of 4.5 V DC or less. I guess that some CMOS parts could be damaged. It's possible to adjust the voltage threshold at which the buzzer sounds. Buzzers interfere with listening to the radio though.
The Hioki video shows the fast continuity which I can confirm works well.
The Hioki video also shows the screen viewing quality which I can confirm is OK but nothing special. The backlight is pretty good with even illumination (I have crouched under desks in boxes to judge mobile phone backlight performance in the past). Here in the UK testing readability in strong sunlight is difficult at the moment.
I could test what effect rain has but it isn't meant to be waterproof
I would still like to check the accuracy against another meter or even better calibrator. Have car, can travel.

[CosPhi]

Teardown and review 

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/hioki-dt4281-multimeter-teardown-and-first-impression/

I'm still very happy with the my DT4281. Still very like the very stable reading in all kind of environment. But I also handle it with more care than a Fluke 170 or Agilent's U1272a. On the other side there is no contest in the stability and repitivity of the measurment. Even the U1272a also has a resolution of 0.001Ohm this high resolution is almost totaly useless. On the Hioki on the other hand, you always get the same result.


About a few messages before
"ïf the customer/industry want something, Fluke (or others) would build it"
I think that's not really true. Customers often wan't a diffrent product, than you get from any company.

For example, I think in theory, on the datasheet, the U1272a is the best meter by far. But in reality it's just a pain because it is so unstable and the digits are unreadable flickering  (even with a very slow "rise" and "fall" time). But it has a lot of very good features, great backlight and housing.

Gossen's top meters are just rated for max 600V  Why ... Thes days we have high DC voltages everywhere (DC bus on motorinveter, solarsystem) and more will come. The display is just two times per second  Why ... But they (and Brymen) are the only brands who can faster datalog than once a second. All models can at least log 10 times per second, some even more.

Fluke just has the 280 series with datalogging ... no model with LCD  Why ... The funny CNX or how they are named ... I think it's just a kind of a bad joke. I don't think they sell many because they are almost for free.

Hioki cannot log by themself at all, just with a PC  But the software workes good and needs just 4 or 5MB on the harddisk. Agilent first software was more than 200MB for my U1272a 

I think there is still "free space" for a great datalogging meter.


I also think CAT VI 1000V should be standart for an industrial meter.

Meters who cannot measure at least 700V DC (Gossen  ) should not be legal in europe (because of 650V Peak+/- on the 3x230/400V AC grid voltage)


Sorry because I came a bit of topic ... If there are questions about the Hioki .. I'm open, but I never used a Brymen

[PChi]

Thanks CosPhi for making me aware of your review and the tear down pictures.

[Wytnucls]

Gossen sells plenty of multimeters rated CAT III 1000V CAT IV 600V, like the 60,000 count 'Extra'.
The Uni-T UT71D can log at 10 samples per second with PC datalink.
The Gossen 30M can log at 100 samples per second. The Gossen 29S at 2000 samples per second (DC Volt).
The Gossen screen display rate can be increased to 5 samples per second (noFiL ON) for most measurements (Extra, E Tech).

[CosPhi]

I checked the manual. All Gossen E- series meters can set to 5 times per second. Thank you very much for the info, because I was already thinking about to buy an X-TRA.

It seems then the EXTRA does have almost everything how I would like it ... exept the price ...

[Wytnucls]

Another reason the Hioki meter is expensive is that Gossen holds the patent for the input blanking system (ABS, Automatic Blocking Socket) and Hioki probably has to pay royalties to Gossen. Something Fluke and others are not willing to do.

http://patents.justia.com/assignee/gossen-metrawatt-gmbh

[CosPhi]

I don't know ... Yokogawa does have it too and has lower prices.

And somemthing more about the Hioki. The display has almost no scratches even after one year of use. My U1272a had scratches already after one week.

[TheBay]

That's interesting, my LG Electronics multimeter also says it holds a patent from the socket blocking.

Another reason the Hioki meter is expensive is that Gossen holds the patent for the input blanking system (ABS, Automatic Blocking Socket) and Hioki probably has to pay royalties to Gossen. Something Fluke and others are not willing to do.

http://patents.justia.com/assignee/gossen-metrawatt-gmbh

[oldway]

An electrician and a power electronics engineer never use the current measuring ranges in high energy circuits.
One always uses current clamps.
I doubt about the need of such ABS, Automatic Blocking Socket.

[TheBay]

I totally agree, an Electrician would have a clamp meter, however someone who is doing purely electronics may not have one,
For example I work with stuff that is not forgiving and almost instant death, such as Valve Linear RF Amplifiers, they can pack a hell of a punch,
A clamp meter wouldn't be practical and having the meter on the wrong setting could be very dangerous.

An electrician and a power electronics engineer never use the current measuring ranges in high energy circuits.
One always uses current clamps.
I doubt about the need of such ABS, Automatic Blocking Socket.

[Wytnucls]

I don't know ... Yokogawa does have it too and has lower prices.

And somemthing more about the Hioki. The display has almost no scratches even after one year of use. My U1272a had scratches already after one week.

Last time I checked, the equivalent Yokogawa/Kyoritsu TY720/KEW1062 costs 500$.

[Wytnucls]

That's interesting, my LG Electronics multimeter also says it holds a patent from the socket blocking.

Which one would that be?

[meeder]

I am not sure what the extra safety is, except for maybe the input shutters. The BM869S has a higher rating, CATIV/1000, and is actually UL tested. 40GBP difference gets you the PC connection option for the Brymen and the magnetic hanger, if you want to compare equal money.

Like I said, it is up to personal preference and what features are important to you and for what price.

The magentic hanger is a joke though... It is cheap but if you get a magnetic hanger for a Fluke for example it is much better. The magnetic hanger Brymen sells you is barely able to hold the heavy 869s.

[TheBay]

LG DM-333

http://www.eurekaspot.com/sp.cfm/DMMDVM/LGP/DM-333.html

That's interesting, my LG Electronics multimeter also says it holds a patent from the socket blocking.

Which one would that be?