Help: Rigol DS1054Z waveform corruption in stop mode

[Miti]

OK, I'll try to reproduce using your instructions. But first... does this technique correspond to any actual use case of the scope?

Moving the waveform fast left and right, probably not but I first noticed this issue when I analyzed the programming of a DS1225 on TL866 and I didn't move the capture very fast.

[Miti]

I got the same new scope yesterday and i just noticed the exact same problem 

The glitch happens at timecode 0:26.

Software version: 00.04.04.04.02
Board version: 0.1.4
Boot version: 0.0.1.5
Firmware version: 0.2.3.11
(All the same as yours)

Yeap, that's it. Welcome to the club! 

[StillTrying]

No one's mentioned a warmed up Self-Calibration, - not that it will fix anything.

Yeap, that's it. Welcome to the club! 

Is membership open to non-rigol owners.

[Miti]

No one's mentioned a warmed up Self-Calibration, - not that it will fix anything.

Yeap, that's it. Welcome to the club! 

Is membership open to non-rigol owners.

Yes, it is. For a small monthly fee, anybody can subscribe...

Seriously, do you have a non Rigol that has this issue?

[StillTrying]

Seriously, do you have a non Rigol that has this issue?

I used to get quite a few long mem glitches, I don't get so many now because I can't enable long mem.
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-cml-firmware/msg1091615/#msg1091615

I can still play a not very good version of Tetris in ETS mode though.

[ataradov]

My scope is old and has not been updated in a while, so the system info screen is very short. Picture attached.

I see no issues as described here. So it looks like Rigol optimized something in the later revisions.

And I'm not updating to the new version, since everything is working fine as far as I'm concerned.

[RoGeorge]

My scope is a couple of years old, too, and shows no waveform corruption with the latest firmware 00.04.04.04.02

[nwfall]

I mean, my car isn't malfunctioning but if I start wiggling the steering wheel back and forth without a clear purpose in mind I might soon find it doing something I don't like, too.

I see your point, but theese glitches appears during normal daily use - I'm inspecting various signals, spinning the knobs lightly to see different parts of the waveform.
Of course, I wonder what causes these glitches and how can I reproduce them faster. So if my car sometimes turns left while I'm rotating steering wheel right, yes, I'll be wiggling the steering wheel

In my case, however, the glitches doesn't depend on warming up the scope.

[iMo]

It could be Rigol is using FPGAs or memories with slower rating in newest boxes, and while they usually overclock it might be you see the glitches based on the temperature.
Afaik the FPGAs used in 1000/2000/4000 series are EOL, so the sourcing could be an issue for Rigol..

[form]

...but theese glitches appears during normal daily use...

Agree. I was inspecting a signal from a digital temperature sensor and "counting" the bits while scrolling through the signal. It is unusable because the signal gets destroyed while you work with it.

...while they usually overclock it might be you see the glitches based on the temperature.

Disagree.
It glitches also with a warm scope and also with slower sampling rate.
It doesnt glitch if you dont touch any knob -> I would think when the memory itself is causing the problem, it would also glitch when you do nothing.

[iMo]

When the newest boxes glitches by any temperature, with the same FW as the older boxes (which do not glitches), then it could be they started to use slower FPGAs or memories, for example. Of course, it could be something else..

[Miti]

I don't want to speculate but I see these kind of issues with FPGAs - memories, usually on new, high speed video products at work. Or one job works well, then a new batch of memories gives us 50% failure rate. We report this to the customer/designer and with a board or two sent to them for FA and a new firmware, all these issues are gone. I'm pretty sure that a cold solder would show up without moving the capture left and right and would cause other symptoms as well but again, these are just speculations. I'll wait for Rigol to come back with a resolution.

[iMo]

Many decades back, in the era of TTL chips, engineers were using the Freon spray with its significant cooling effect applied onto the sea of 74xx packages, package by package, usually found the faulty one. I saw it in practice. Just a remark, not telling you you have to open the oscope case and spray onto the FPGAs

[Miti]

We use freezing spray at work as well and it scares me every time they spray a BGA. On the TH parts it may be ok to catch some defects but on those fine BGAs, to cool it from 60 - 70C down to negative temperatures within seconds, could be very detrimental to both die and PCB and you could create more defects than you try to catch.
In my case there's no point of doing that as I can't fix it anyway even if I find the culprit.

[iMo]

In my case there's no point of doing that as I can't fix it anyway even if I find the culprit.

Reballing the FPGAs is a pretty popular topic on youtube.. 
Jokes aside, sure Rigol shall provide some hints how to proceed..

[Adrian_Arg.]

hello, mine does not present that error, for now everything is perfect  . I have it unlocked with all the functions, including 100 mHz.
I tried it in cold and also after 30 minutes
Software version 00.04.04.04.02
Board Version 0.1.4
Boot version 0.0.1.4
Versiob Firmware 0.2.3.11
CPLD1.1
Build Date Dec 24 2018 18: 56.32 | 0 0: 4/18 5:30 PM

in spanish/español
hola, el mio no presenta ese error, por ahora todo perfecto  . lo tengo desbloqueado con todas las funciones, incluido los 100 mHz.
lo probe en frio y tambien  despues de 30 minutos
Software version 00.04.04.04.02
Board Version 0.1.4
Boot version 0.0.1.4
Firmware versiob 0.2.3.11
CPLD1.1
Build Date Dec 24 2018 18:56.32 | 0 0 :4/18 17:30

[iMo]

fyi - Adrian bought it Feb2018 (and had to cleanup the pcb with alcohol based on Rigol's advice).

[Adrian_Arg.]

fyi - Adrian bought it Feb2018 (and had to cleanup the pcb with alcohol based on Rigol's advice).

if it is true, that way I remove the humidity, then I exposed it to the sun for 10 minutes totally disarmed, except the display, from that moment never more a problem.

in spanish/español
si es verdad, de esa manera le quite la humedad, luego yo lo expuse 10 minutos al sol totalmente desarmado, menos el display, desde ese momento nunca mas un problema.

[ProBang2]

Hello.

Can´t provoke the failure. My DS1054z is a "somewhere in the middle" old one.

Software version	00.04.04.04.02
Board Version	0.1.1
Boot Version	0.0.1.4
Firmware Version	0.2.3.11
CPLD Version	1.1
Build Date	Dec 24 2018 18: 56.32

Maybe the issue is somehow correlated with the "Boot Version 0.0.1.5"?
What triggers the change to a new boot version? Modified hardware? 

[Miti]

My boot version is 0.0.1.4

[keef]

Hello all,
got my my 1054z a few days ago and am also seeing this issue. Happens hot or cold, no zooming required, just moving the horizontal position left and right. These screen shots are of a single capture of the scopes builtin test signal.

Software Version   00.04.04.04.02
Board Version        0.1.4
Boot Version          0.0.1.5
Firmware Version   0.2.3.11
CPLD Version         1.1
Build Date         Dec 24 2018 18:56:32 | 0 0:20/0 22:14

[nwfall]

am also seeing this issue

Sorry to hear that.
It's also terrifying to hear that 4 out of 10 DS1054Z's in this thread have this problem.

Just for information. Changing vertical scale and position also causes glitches to appear. It is harder to catch because I'm using vertical controls rarer in stop mode.

[ebastler]

It doesnt glitch if you dont touch any knob -> I would think when the memory itself is causing the problem, it would also glitch when you do nothing.

Please not that the Rigol has two separate memories -- the sample memory (which stores the trace at full time resolution), and the screen buffer (which holds the view currently visible on the screen, down-sampled to one sample per screen column).

I would assume that the scope reads the sample memory once every time you change the settings. (To build a new screen buffer, corresponding to the changed view.) While you keep looking at the same view in "stopped" state and don't touch the knobs, the scope can leave the screen buffer unchanged, and does not have to go back to the sample memory.

So the observed error is compatible with the assumption that reading the sample memory itself is unreliable. But of course, other root causes are also possible.

[2N3055]

am also seeing this issue

Sorry to hear that.
It's also terrifying to hear that 4 out of 10 DS1054Z's in this thread have this problem.

Just for information. Changing vertical scale and position also causes glitches to appear. It is harder to catch because I'm using vertical controls rarer in stop mode.

If it is possible, return it. It is likely a hardware defect. Mine doesn't do it. Latest firmware.
Might be that they come from same production batch with some component with defect or doesn't have proper rating.

There are likely 10s of thousands 1000Z here on the eevblog. 4 is not much.

@ebastler:

If it is only screen buffer, than after this happens, one could get samples from main buffer over SCPI and get right data...

[Housedad]

I wonder if the glitches are related to the scope recalculating the aquire memory but also reading  and adding noise from the horizontal positioning pot as it is rotated while trying to create the glitch?  A weird form of keybounce?

EDIT:  or is it something to do with the CPU not able to calculate and update the screen memory fast enough and skipping sections of memory and showing whatever is there?   It is not the fastest brain in the bunch. A software interrupt that forces the CPU to skip based on timing?