Help microscope buy advice needed

[motorhomer]

Hello all
I am looking at getting into smd electronics and so need to get some equipment to start. I am looking at buying a microscope but do not want to brake to bank on this as I still need an oscilloscope and other soldering equipment.
I need some advice on two microscopes I have my eyes on. The first is a Chinese model and the other is a AmScope.

I understand the Chinese models are not of great quality but are they any good for a beginner and can they really be used for smd work.

I really like the Chinese model as the stand is much better and it has optical zoom.

The AmScope only has 10x and 20x but has good reviews.

What one would be the better. I don't want to spend over £300 due to over cost and I also live in UK so US models will have heavy import taxes.

the Chinese model link

eBay auction: #http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Simul-Focal-7X-45X-Trinocular-Industrial-Zoom-Stereo-Microscope-Dual-Arm-Stand/142449962828?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649

the AMscope

https://www.amazon.co.uk/AmScope-Widefield-Binocular-Inspection-Microscope/dp/B005C75IVM/ref=lp_3888779031_1_5?srs=3888779031&ie=UTF8&qid=1508780507&sr=8-5

[Roeland_R]

Hello all
I am looking at getting into smd electronics and so need to get some equipment to start. I am looking at buying a microscope but do not want to brake to bank on this as I still need an oscilloscope and other soldering equipment.
I need some advice on two microscopes I have my eyes on. The first is a Chinese model and the other is a AmScope.

I understand the Chinese models are not of great quality but are they any good for a beginner and can they really be used for smd work.

I really like the Chinese model as the stand is much better and it has optical zoom.

The AmScope only has 10x and 20x but has good reviews.

What one would be the better. I don't want to spend over £300 due to over cost and I also live in UK so US models will have heavy import taxes.

the Chinese model link

eBay auction: #http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Simul-Focal-7X-45X-Trinocular-Industrial-Zoom-Stereo-Microscope-Dual-Arm-Stand/142449962828?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649

the AMscope

https://www.amazon.co.uk/AmScope-Widefield-Binocular-Inspection-Microscope/dp/B005C75IVM/ref=lp_3888779031_1_5?srs=3888779031&ie=UTF8&qid=1508780507&sr=8-5

I use an Andonstar 75 euro usb microscope. For my older eyes good enough. See example picture https://www.eevblog.com/forum/index.php?topic=83812.0

[motorhomer]

thanks Roeland_R for the reply. That looks a great buy for the price but I have not seen any reviews on this and have been warned away from USB microscopes.

I will give this some thought and do some research on this tomorrow as the price would be great for a start up

[chris_leyson]

I was looking on the RS website the other day and I found RS Pro (Chinese) Stereo Microscope x20  and Bresser x20
http://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/microscopes/4718828/
http://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/microscopes/7187337/

The Bresser and Amscope look very similar but the Bresser uses halogen bulbs that don't last very long, personally I prefer the Amscope.

[cowana]

A USB microscope is ideal for inspection and checking solder joints.

However, you'll really struggle to work under it in real-time; the processing lag (unavoidable on any microscopes that don't directly output video (VGA/HDMI)) and lack of depth perception will make it very hard.

Amscopes are manufactured in China; of the two you posted, the ebay link would be vastly nicer to use (with adjustable zoom and highly adjustable stand being big factors). For either, I would highly recommend adding a 0.5x Barlow lens to double the working distance (and reduce the zoom) - for electronics 3.5x to 22.5x is an excellent range.

Note that both of those items ship from outside the EU, which means you will be charged VAT and likely a handling fee as you import them.

Andy

[motorhomer]

The lag on the USB devise was what I was worried about. The bulbs I believe could be replaced with a better LED lighting ring.

I have read about the 0.5x Barlow lens and would look at adding this.

thanks for the replies this is pushing me to the Chinese model as the stand and zoom would make a lot of difference

As for import tax I will have to take this chance. I have bought a lot from china in electronics and have so far luckily missed the import tax, where as when buying from US I have always been stung

[trevwhite]

I was looking on the RS website the other day and I found RS Pro (Chinese) Stereo Microscope x20  and Bresser x20
http://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/microscopes/4718828/
http://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/microscopes/7187337/

The Bresser and Amscope look very similar but the Bresser uses halogen bulbs that don't last very long, personally I prefer the Amscope.

I have a similar microscope to those. Mine is fixed at x20 and I find this great for close up inspection but it is too close for rework. You end up always moving the board to position it exactly right. I think x10 or less would be better but I am stuck for the time being with the one I have.

[nctnico]

For SMD work you want between x4 and x8 magnification. Perhaps get x4, x6 and x8. Getting more working distance is a plus. The last time I looked at a microscope most offer magnifications which are way higher and you'll need to buy seperate lenses to get lower magnifications and more working distance. A good quality magnifier lamp with an 8 diopter lense could also be an option. IMHO the best to get is a Mantis (if you have the space) and with some patience good deals can be found.

[motorhomer]

The Mantis microscopes are very nice but as a start up in this hobby will be well out of my price range. Maybe in a few years this could be on my Christmas list.

Seeing as I would need less than 10x magnification and both the ebay and AmScope are Chinese made i am leaning towards the ebay scope. Has anyone bought one of them and are they usable or complete rubbish

A 0.5x Barlow lens would cost an extra £25 so will have to look for one that would fit.

If no one has owned one then I might get it and review it on this post.

[trys]

Have you tried watchmaker loupes instead or one of those magnifying goggle things that restorers use (not sure what they are called), or simply putting on two pairs of +3 reading glasses?

Just a thought. I've only done one tiny little SMD repair, so I'm not qualified to give my opinion, but if money is a bit tight then it might be worth a try.

All the best,
Trys

[nanofrog]

The Mantis microscopes are very nice but as a start up in this hobby will be well out of my price range. Maybe in a few years this could be on my Christmas list.

Seeing as I would need less than 10x magnification and both the ebay and AmScope are Chinese made i am leaning towards the ebay scope. Has anyone bought one of them and are they usable or complete rubbish

A 0.5x Barlow lens would cost an extra £25 so will have to look for one that would fit.

If no one has owned one then I might get it and review it on this post.

FWIW, the link on the Chinese station has been removed.

IME you'll definitely want a model with zoom.

Regarding a 0.5x Barlow, the Amscope I have uses 48mm screw-on filters, Barlow lenses, and ring light adapter. Definitely worth it as it will double your working height. It may be easier to get it from the microscope vendor as they can make sure it's the correct size.

[JohnPen]

I used one of these for a lot of SMD soldering while building a 'Scotties Spectrum Analyser'.  It is pretty cheap but works well, especially for 'tired old eyes',  and you have a simple choice of lenses.  For detailed inspection something with greater magnification would be useful such as a jewellers loupe or indeed a USB microscope.  I did however manage the build successfully without either of the latter.  What was important in my case was plenty of extra illumination as the built in light was not sufficient on it's own.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/9892B1-Magnifier-Interchangeable-5-Pcs-Lenses-Headband-2-LED-Head-Lamps-BG/122656823411?_trkparms=aid%3D555019%26algo%3DPL.BANDIT%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20151005190540%26meid%3D503cb2c1e1e84de381ed7f7a82e9eb1b%26pid%3D100505%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D1%26&_trksid=p2045573.c100505.m3226

[motorhomer]

not sure why the ebay link was removed, this is the item number 142449962828
and link again

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Simul-Focal-7X-45X-Trinocular-Industrial-Zoom-Stereo-Microscope-Dual-Arm-Stand-/142449962828?hash=item212aadef4c:g:eAQAAOSwmvZZbtRD

As for the head sets I am not sure these will be good enough. I will be inspecting and fixing small items like the iphone and laptops so I believe a microscope is the best way forward. However I have never used this head set for micro smd work.

[trys]

How do you keep a circuit board on a microscope without it falling off, or is it a completely different type of microscope to what I'm thinking?

Edited: I've looked at the one in the link - so I see now.  I'll crawl back under my rock now with an embarrassed look.

[cowana]

Seeing as I would need less than 10x magnification and both the ebay and AmScope are Chinese made i am leaning towards the ebay scope. Has anyone bought one of them and are they usable or complete rubbish

I was looking to buy a similar stereo microscope a few months ago. Looking on Aliexpress, that exact model is sold by multiple sellers (Lucky Zoom and FYScope being the biggest).

There are many combinations of that same microscope head in binocular and trinocular configurations, along with various stands and accessories, ranging from £150 (head only) to around £600 (head, stand, camera, lenses, LED lights etc).

The model you have posted is a very satisfactory head with reasonably decent optics; I'm sure you would be happy with it. The stand is slightly lightweight/flimsy compared to the usual single/dual boom stands sold with that series of Chinese microscopes. That's where some of the cost savings are - the single boom arm stand I got is almost 20kg on it's own, which put up the postage cost significantly!

Aliexpress certainly has more choice than ebay (and at slightly lower prices) if you're comfortable using it.

[Howardlong]

I use the Amscope 7x-45x Simul-focal head (SM745TP) on an articulating arm clamped to the desk. I use it with a 0.5x Barlow and the supplied eyepieces. This gives you a good 8" working distance for rework, in particular for getting a hot air iron in.

I gave up with the LED ring, and instead use a pair of 3W LED gooseneck spots in opposite directions clamped to the microscope.

I also recommend a height adjustable chair, with 8" of working distance it might feel a bit too high.

This is what you and the camera see at maximum zoom. The LED and two caps are 0201, and the two resistors (near the LED) are 01005. The chip is 0.76mmx0.76mm. It is much clearer visually than this photo gives credit, I strongly suspect that the optics in the camera adapter (Amscope AD-C20) aren't the best.



If you want to watch a video of me using it, there's one here

https://youtu.be/JWS2NWK3D4g

[woody]

For my self I was looking at

http://www.microglobe.co.uk/zenith-stl-80-x10x20-long-arm-stereoscopic-microscope-p-8276.html

Someone around here was using it and happy with it.

Shipping to Holland is GBP 18, so probably cheaper to you in the UK.

[NivagSwerdna]

Someone around here was using it and happy with it.

I am! I use 10x almost exclusively... if I had unlimited money then adjustable magnification might have been nice (e.g. 7x-45x) but I don't have unlimited funds.

[nanofrog]

not sure why the ebay link was removed, this is the item number 142449962828
and link again

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Simul-Focal-7X-45X-Trinocular-Industrial-Zoom-Stereo-Microscope-Dual-Arm-Stand-/142449962828?hash=item212aadef4c:g:eAQAAOSwmvZZbtRD

As for the head sets I am not sure these will be good enough. I will be inspecting and fixing small items like the iphone and laptops so I believe a microscope is the best way forward. However I have never used this head set for micro smd work.

You definitely would want to have a microscope for iPhones and such.

Thanks for the link. Do note the photo doesn't match the description in regard to the stand. Description says dual arm boom stand, so verify it with the seller if you opt for the unit you've linked. Regarding a dual arm boom stand, they're more stable IME than single arm stands.

I have the previous version of Simul-Focal, and can confirm the optics are fine.

3.5x - 90x Simul-Focal from Aliexpress for 390.30GBP shipped.

[woody]

[I am! I use 10x almost exclusively... if I had unlimited money then adjustable magnification might have been nice (e.g. 7x-45x) but I don't have unlimited funds.

I'm still on the fence. Do you feel the FOV is big enough for smd work and checking?

[cowana]

Do note the photo doesn't match the description in regard to the stand. Description says dual arm boom stand, so verify it with the seller if you opt for the unit you've linked. Regarding a dual arm boom stand, they're more stable IME than single arm stands.

I noticed that - but then suspected the seller was using the fact that their stand technically *is* made of two booms (one vertical and one horizontal), to appear in search results of people looking for the more usual dual-parallel arms... If you are actually getting the much more solid/expensive dual-parallel version that would be good, although it seems very unlikely given the price and picture!

[motorhomer]

Thank you all for the advice, cowana thanks for the link to aliexpress I have not looked at this before and I might now need to do a lot of cross comparing as I can see at least one micorscope which may have the same ebay spec for £50 less.
I have email the ebay seller to clarify the dual beam arms and to see if they are selling a 0.5x barlow lens for this scope.
That link you gave woody is similar to the AmScope which is a fixed lens scope. I would like zoom capability if i can.

As for the beam I am not to worried as this is something I can fabricate by myself if needed. The main concern was the lens quality and that it gives good sharp images with out having distortion between each eye. I have had binoculars with each image overlapping each eye.

Howardlong thanks for the video this is great I have not watched it all yet, will try later when I have more time. But looking at the resistor sizes you used this is something i might have to do and they are really small. Still not sure about the AmScope they are more expensive and no zoom. I cant find the one you mentioned being sold in the UK.

I will see what the ebayer comes back with and spend some time on aliexpress to see if I can get it cheaper although ebay does have more protection when buying from abroad..

[nctnico]

Another option is to use a smartphone with a good camera. I just saw someone do that today.

[CatalinaWOW]

Have you tried watchmaker loupes instead or one of those magnifying goggle things that restorers use (not sure what they are called), or simply putting on two pairs of +3 reading glasses?

Just a thought. I've only done one tiny little SMD repair, so I'm not qualified to give my opinion, but if money is a bit tight then it might be worth a try.

All the best,
Trys

I wish to second this recommendation.  I have a good microscope, but find myself using the goggle and loupes far more frequently.  The microscope has its place, but as a beginner I would put money into an oscilloscope and other electronic gear first.  I don't know what you can find in Europe, but here in the US you can get the goggles for well under $15 and a set of loupes for under $5.  They are not top quality, but more than good enough. 

[NivagSwerdna]

[I am! I use 10x almost exclusively... if I had unlimited money then adjustable magnification might have been nice (e.g. 7x-45x) but I don't have unlimited funds.

I'm still on the fence. Do you feel the FOV is big enough for smd work and checking?

I love my http://www.microglobe.co.uk/zenith-stl-80-x10x20-long-arm-stereoscopic-microscope-p-8276.html It makes SMD a joy and is perfect for inspection.  The microglobe shop is worth a visit... it is next to the British Museum in London down a small old fashioned side street... think Diagon Alley.   

... do consider if you will ever want to do a video of your SMD work....  if you do... then maybe you need to be trinocular!