Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free

[RFman]

Tinman, have you tried this hack on the DST1062B?

Do you know if the DST1062B has the same components as the DST1102B?

Thanks.

Afaik yes, all Tekway's are equal inside within model series:
DST1062B=DST1102B=DST1202B
DST4062B=DST4102B
DST3022B=DST3042B

The DST3xxxB are probably like DST4000B, but without SRAM soldered and with different FPGA config applied.
The DST4xxxB are a bit different then DST1xxxB (layout and XO), and of course FPGA config didn't match.
So as already said, hacks within model series are possible, but not accross.

Regards the DST1062B hack, it has been tested and confirmed as working by someone else.

On my DST1102B i can switch firmwares between 60-100-200MHz, there are of course measurable differences,
see attached picture (db vs MHz on screen)

Tekway seems to be broad-minded, the -3db bandwidth is always higher
than the model bandwidth (R&S SMY -> DSO ->T 50Ohm terminated)

Hi Tinhead,

In the plot Frequency/dB that you did with DST1202B fw in your DST1102B Hardware. Did you change the channel amp resistors etc for this plot/trace? I note that with DST1102B fw it is 0dB at 100MHz. If components were not changed, what is the plot/trace like with these changed.

Thanks for your help.

[Bored@Work]

>>> I should have read the thread more carefully!

I dont think so, there are 24 pages with 350 answers,
it took me one afternoon to read everything,
result was: I know less than before!
(because 95% of the thread is bla-bla-bla...)

If you are so retarded that this is over your head, you should bring all your electronics stuff back where you bought it, and ask for your money back. When asked why, tell them you are too stupid to use it.

[tinhead]

Hi Tinhead,

In the plot Frequency/dB that you did with DST1202B fw in your DST1102B Hardware. Did you change the channel amp resistors etc for this plot/trace? I note that with DST1102B fw it is 0dB at 100MHz. If components were not changed, what is the plot/trace like with these changed.

Thanks for your help.

this plot was created on very early 100MHz Tekway hw revision, where some parts are like in currenty 200MHz model
and some ~ like in 100MHz model. I should probably create a "proper" one from each model (current hw revision) hacked/not hacked.

In principle as already mentioned it will be a bit worse if you hack 60MHz to 200MHz bw, and almost equal (to my old plot)
if you hack 100MHz model.

For sure, if you change the few resistors it will looks like on original 200MHz model (current hw revision) - see attached
- sweep from HP8594E , 0-400 MHz in 50 ms.  Channel 1 is connected with a known good LMR-195 N-to-BNC cable
with a 50-ohm terminator on the scope end.  The knee occurs at about 2 ms = 400MHz*27ms/50ms=216 MHz, -3db point is about 266 MHz.

[Igor]

I draw your option panel to fit the real oscilloscope.
This had to completely disassemble the device. 
Slightly changed design. Design Tekway I don't like.
Color file will do tomorrow. 
What type of file like all-* .CDR, * pdf, * psd or JPEG? 
Please do not throw tomatoes at me!

Please zip it and replace the attached, it is slowing down this page ...

Edit: Sorry … Corrected.

[nukie]

>>> I should have read the thread more carefully!

I dont think so, there are 24 pages with 350 answers,
it took me one afternoon to read everything,
result was: I know less than before!
(because 95% of the thread is bla-bla-bla...)

I found this page for Hantek Scopes:
http://www.socratesblog.eu/?p=174
maybe it helps a little bit.

Firstly, you should have at least some experience with how the microprocessor works before you attempt to mess with your DSO. I spent more than an afternoon to read and digest, guess what? I got more than I need.

I can see the intention of your post is to advertise the webpage here?

[RFman]

Hi Tinhead,

In the plot Frequency/dB that you did with DST1202B fw in your DST1102B Hardware. Did you change the channel amp resistors etc for this plot/trace? I note that with DST1102B fw it is 0dB at 100MHz. If components were not changed, what is the plot/trace like with these changed.

Thanks for your help.

this plot was created on very early 100MHz Tekway hw revision, where some parts are like in currenty 200MHz model
and some ~ like in 100MHz model. I should probably create a "proper" one from each model (current hw revision) hacked/not hacked.

In principle as already mentioned it will be a bit worse if you hack 60MHz to 200MHz bw, and almost equal (to my old plot)
if you hack 100MHz model.

For sure, if you change the few resistors it will looks like on original 200MHz model (current hw revision) - see attached
- sweep from HP8594E , 0-400 MHz in 50 ms.  Channel 1 is connected with a known good LMR-195 N-to-BNC cable
with a 50-ohm terminator on the scope end.  The knee occurs at about 2 ms = 400MHz*27ms/50ms=216 MHz, -3db point is about 266 MHz.

Hi Tinhead,

Am I correct in saying you meant "The knee occurs at 27ms" and not 2ms? 400MHz x (27ms/50ms) = 216MHz. The step at the right of the screen (13.5 divisions from the left) looks to be the point where the sweep ends (400MHz) and starts (0MHz) again. Do you know what the spike is that is at around 4 divisions from the left, looks to me as if something is wrong like a BNC connector problem? There is also a step at around 3.5 divisions from the left, should there be a step?

But all is ok if the -3dB point is 266MHz. I've never measured it but I wonder what it would be when a 200MHz probe is connected and used. That would make it worse. I take it that your test was without a probe, with the 50ohm terminator at the oscilloscope BNC connector.

Later I may change the resistors after I have my Tekway DST1102B running a English UI. Am I correct in saying that if you don't change the resistors (and adjust the compensation etc). And run it at 200MHz. Then you are better to get the Tekway 100MHz and not a 60MHz oscilloscope to convert/hack?

Yes, traces for not hacked and hacked for each model would be interesting and would show a lot on what performance to expect.

Thanks for your help.

[RFman]

Hi Tinhead,

In the plot Frequency/dB that you did with DST1202B fw in your DST1102B Hardware. Did you change the channel amp resistors etc for this plot/trace? I note that with DST1102B fw it is 0dB at 100MHz. If components were not changed, what is the plot/trace like with these changed.

Thanks for your help.

this plot was created on very early 100MHz Tekway hw revision, where some parts are like in currenty 200MHz model
and some ~ like in 100MHz model. I should probably create a "proper" one from each model (current hw revision) hacked/not hacked.

In principle as already mentioned it will be a bit worse if you hack 60MHz to 200MHz bw, and almost equal (to my old plot)
if you hack 100MHz model.

For sure, if you change the few resistors it will looks like on original 200MHz model (current hw revision) - see attached
- sweep from HP8594E , 0-400 MHz in 50 ms.  Channel 1 is connected with a known good LMR-195 N-to-BNC cable
with a 50-ohm terminator on the scope end.  The knee occurs at about 2 ms = 400MHz*27ms/50ms=216 MHz, -3db point is about 266 MHz.

Hi Tinhead,

Am I correct in saying you meant "The knee occurs at 27ms" and not 2ms? 400MHz x (27ms/50ms) = 216MHz. The step at the right of the screen (13.5 divisions from the left) looks to be the point where the sweep ends (400MHz) and starts (0MHz) again. Do you know what the spike is that is at around 4 divisions from the left, looks to me as if something is wrong like a BNC connector problem? There is also a step at around 3.5 divisions from the left, should there be a step?

But all is ok if the -3dB point is 266MHz. I've never measured it but I wonder what it would be when a 200MHz probe is connected and used. That would make it worse. I take it that your test was without a probe, with the 50ohm terminator at the oscilloscope BNC connector.

Later I may change the resistors after I have my Tekway DST1102B running a English UI. Am I correct in saying that if you don't change the resistors (and adjust the compensation etc). And run it at 200MHz. Then you are better to get the Tekway 100MHz and not a 60MHz oscilloscope to convert/hack?

Yes, traces for not hacked and hacked for each model would be interesting and would show a lot on what performance to expect.

Thanks for your help.

[tinhead]

Am I correct in saying you meant "The knee occurs at 27ms" and not 2ms? 400MHz x (27ms/50ms) = 216MHz. The step at the right of the screen (13.5 divisions from the left) looks to be the point where the sweep ends (400MHz) and starts (0MHz) again. Do you know what the spike is that is at around 4 divisions from the left, looks to me as if something is wrong like a BNC connector problem? There is also a step at around 3.5 divisions from the left, should there be a step?

But all is ok if the -3dB point is 266MHz. I've never measured it but I wonder what it would be when a 200MHz probe is connected and used. That would make it worse. I take it that your test was without a probe, with the 50ohm terminator at the oscilloscope BNC connector.

Later I may change the resistors after I have my Tekway DST1102B running a English UI. Am I correct in saying that if you don't change the resistors (and adjust the compensation etc). And run it at 200MHz. Then you are better to get the Tekway 100MHz and not a 60MHz oscilloscope to convert/hack?

Yes, traces for not hacked and hacked for each model would be interesting and would show a lot on what performance to expect.

Thanks for your help.

no idea where the spike was coming from, not really important.

In principle yes, if you buy 100MHz model and hack to bw, you will have full -3db by 200MHz (without any hw changes)
instead of something between 180-190MHz if you chose a 60MHz model. It is up to you.

[project]

no idea where the spike was coming from, not really important.

looks like a singal bounce to me, no big deal for the test.

[dfnr2]

Do you know what the spike is that is at around 4 divisions from the left, looks to me as if something is wrong like a BNC connector problem? There is also a step at around 3.5 divisions from the left, should there be a step?

It's from normal tracking generator function, switching of RF circuits inside the tracking generator prior to the sweep.  It's in the "dead period" during sweep setup, so it's irrelevant.

[RFman]

Do you know what the spike is that is at around 4 divisions from the left, looks to me as if something is wrong like a BNC connector problem? There is also a step at around 3.5 divisions from the left, should there be a step?

It's from normal tracking generator function, switching of RF circuits inside the tracking generator prior to the sweep.  It's in the "dead period" during sweep setup, so it's irrelevant.

0MHz is at the left of the screen. 400MHz is at around 13.5 divisions from the left. That makes the step and spike at around 3.5 and 4 divisions from the left, somewhere between 0MHz and 400MHz. Maybe around 3.75 divisions x(400MHz/13.5) = 111MHz. That's not during sweep setup but is during a sweep at around 111MHz.

[RFman]

no idea where the spike was coming from, not really important.

looks like a singal bounce to me, no big deal for the test.

I was thinking it's maybe a mismatch reflection on the transmission cable between the generator and oscilloscope, but there is only one spike and a step. But this is at around 111MHz which is before our measurements at 200MHz.

Interesting, thanks all for your help.

[tinhead]

0MHz is at the left of the screen. 400MHz is at around 13.5 divisions from the left. That makes the step and spike at around 3.5 and 4 divisions from the left, somewhere between 0MHz and 400MHz. Maybe around 3.75 divisions x(400MHz/13.5) = 111MHz. That's not during sweep setup but is during a sweep at around 111MHz.

no, check the picture, the spike was on 0MHz

[rf-loop]

All these are with Hantek DSO5102B factory condition:



Log continuous Sweep 1Hz - 20MHz, markkers around, start 1Hz, 5, 10, 20, 30, 50, 100, 200, 500, 1k, 2k 5k 10k 20k 80k 150k 300k 1M 2M 5M 10M 15M 20M scope AC, 50 ohm terminal in scope BNC (DC mode same over 1M but all below 1M is "flat" enough so that can tell... "flat"




Step sweep, start 5MHz, next longer is 7,5M. (all steps 2,5MHz, all vertical yellow lines are steps.. and all steps are sama timing but first step after 5MHz is long time (7,5MHz))
Connection: HP8567B, cood cable <2m, terminator (tektronix) 50 ohm in scope BNC




Same but now connection is HP8567B, same cable, terminator (tektronix), 10dB suhner attenuator, scope BNC.
(I think attenuator reduce scope input reactance bad effects littlebit?? (less "ringing")

Cursors are -3dB if reference (0) is 300mVp-p (6 div) So in this picture ~175MHz
Remember that this kind of test give some image about scope analog front end... (and test settings).
Looking signals with normal capture do not give this feq response! Using scope normal probes also make big difference.







Pulse, rise- and fall time set to 1.3ns (HP pulse generator). Geniksen käskynä tehdä 20ns pulssi. Kytkentä: genis. (Suhner)cable, (tek) terminator, attenuator 10dB (suhner) Scope BNC.

[RFman]

0MHz is at the left of the screen. 400MHz is at around 13.5 divisions from the left. That makes the step and spike at around 3.5 and 4 divisions from the left, somewhere between 0MHz and 400MHz. Maybe around 3.75 divisions x(400MHz/13.5) = 111MHz. That's not during sweep setup but is during a sweep at around 111MHz.

no, check the picture, the spike was on 0MHz

Thanks Tinhead, no wonder I couldn't understand the trace. I was taking 0MHz at the left of the screen just like my old valve/transistor Tektronix 547 oscilloscope. I'm looking forward to getting my Tekway to try all the new functions. Thanks all for correcting me.... .

[Igor]

I draw my front panel to fit the real oscilloscope.
For this had to completely disassemble the device.  
Slightly changed design. Design Tekway I don't like.
In the tekway.zip - two good quality file (*.PDF).



EDIT:
Fixed typo in Tekway_Panel.pdf

[alm]

Same but now connection is HP8567B, same cable, terminator (tektronix), 10dB suhner attenuator, scope BNC.
(I think attenuator reduce scope input reactance bad effects littlebit?? (less "ringing")

Probably reflections causing trouble. A high-impedance input is not a nice resistive circuit like a low-impedance transmission line, which is why all high bandwidth scopes have 50 ohm inputs. It's actually standard practice for scope bandwidth testing to use as much attenuation as possible (limited by the generator's output power), to eliminate exactly this problem.

[rf-loop]

Same but now connection is HP8567B, same cable, terminator (tektronix), 10dB suhner attenuator, scope BNC.
(I think attenuator reduce scope input reactance bad effects littlebit?? (less "ringing")

Probably reflections causing trouble. A high-impedance input is not a nice resistive circuit like a low-impedance transmission line, which is why all high bandwidth scopes have 50 ohm inputs. It's actually standard practice for scope bandwidth testing to use as much attenuation as possible (limited by the generator's output power), to eliminate exactly this problem.

Yes, this is why I use it and also want show how it is without.  But many people I have seen using only about 50 ohm terminator.

BTW if someone have Tektronix "input normalizer" (small box with BNC connectors) it is useful tool (it need be just made for this capacitance value what is scope input)... but today can not find very easy.

[RFman]

Hi Tinhead and all,

I have just received my Tekway oscilloscope from Pioneer via DHL. It took 7 days from the date of order . I found the Utility "System information button" position in the English manual that I had downloaded from Teckway's website. It is:

Model: dst1102b
Soft version: 2.05.0 (100305.0)
Hardware version: 0x555583e8

I've purchased a USB UART RS232 3.3V TTL board to enable me to change the Menu Display to English. On reading the instructions again, it said that there was a prehacked version for firmware versions before 2.6.xx.

Are the prehacked versions upgrades still available. Would like to make it a 100MHz or 200MHz oscilloscope with English Menu Display.

I also can't find a USB driver to run TTScop program via USB from my Laptop computer. Any idea where I can download this driver? I have Windows 7 64 bit.

Thanks Tinhead, without your information I wouldn't have a great oscilloscope for such a great price USD$580.00 including DHL shipping to Australia.

[flolic]

I draw my front panel to fit the real oscilloscope.
For this had to completely disassemble the device.  
Slightly changed design. Design Tekway I don't like.
In the tekway.zip - two good quality file (*.PDF).

Hi Igor, you are missing "i" in a acquire 

[tinhead]

I have just received my Tekway oscilloscope. It is:

Model: dst1102b
Soft version: 2.05.0 (100305.0)
Hardware version: 0x555583e8

aha, so old stock as currently 2.6.3 (110225.0) is programmed by the manufacturer

I've purchased a USB UART RS232 3.3V TTL board to enable me to change the Menu Display to English.

good, as you have USB UART converter use it. You can just download the recent firmware,
for example this one

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/index.php?topic=1571.msg36768#msg36768

and hack after firmware ugrade via UART.

On reading the instructions again, it said that there was a prehacked version for firmware versions before 2.6.xx.

Are the prehacked versions upgrades still available. Would like to make it a 100MHz or 200MHz oscilloscope with English Menu Display.

i did cleaned-up this thread and removed all pre-hacked firmware versions
as they only works with minority of currently available DSOs.

I also can't find a USB driver to run TTScop program via USB from my Laptop computer. Any idea where I can download this driver? I have Windows 7 64 bit.

on Hantek website there is new TTScope version which should work with Win7 64bit.

[tinhead]

btw, i did said "manafacturer is installing by defualt 2.6.3 (110225.0) now",
this is not yet bug-free firmware, it is still in principle the same as 2.06.3 (110118.0).

Hanek did changed the PCB revision, so small firmware update was necessary, therefore revision 2.6.3 (110225.0).
It can be downloaded from Hantek website.

No idea if Tekway changed the hardware too, so therefore there is not new firmware on Tekway website.

There are no details on hw modification, we have to wait until someone bought a Hantek with new hw version.
They just started the production, so probably few old hardware revision models still available.

Even if Hantek said "minor modifications only" i can tell you already that
display init is different (same display but connected a bit different),
buzzer driver has been changed (connected to different port - probably pin swap with display),
some FPGA design changes (only for new hw revisions).


The firmware update is of course checking the hw revision, so it will not "destroy" old models
(and will not update buzzer, display and FPGA).

Most interessting thing during hw revision check is the information
which will be read by the "readHWVersion" from EEPROM:
- PCB revision
- LCD revision
- TOUCH revision
- FRONT PANEL revision
- USB revision
- NET revision

PCB and DISPLAY are clear, probably some routing changes to support new functions, NET is know, that's the LAN addon,
USB revision (probably) for the planned SCPI support, TOUCH - yeah, we know there will be touch in the future,
and FRONT PANEL - right, Hantek have on the front panel preparation for DB25 plug - probably LA functionality in the future.

I think i will order a new hw revision and check what inside, however not now - i will wait until the Hantek's LAN addon is ready.

[project]

Thanks for your information. 5202B(Mod 5102B) Updated to 2.6.3(1100225.0). looks more function than 2.6.2. Utility has 3 pages now. and language packs Now have English, Chinese(simplify), Chinese(traditional)--have it in 2.6.2 but file name was wrong so won't show, Japanese, Franch, Deutsch, korean. Other funtions haven't tested yet.

Update: the 2.6.3 looks more bugs than 2.6.2.
Acquire switch between diff long term will let DSO halt or response slow, longer term, slower.This caused by turn filter on. And by turned filter on will also cause that CH1 display little slow, and vertical position image shift little while changing.  

[alm]

BTW if someone have Tektronix "input normalizer" (small box with BNC connectors) it is useful tool (it need be just made for this capacitance value what is scope input)... but today can not find very easy.

It's just an adjustable capacitor in a box. A 10:1 probe accomplishes exactly the same: making sure the capacitance of all channels is the same so you can swap probes without checking compensation each time. Just compensate the probe to one channel, and adjust the other channels so the signal looks the same. The actual capacitance value doesn't really matter as long as it's within the compensation range of your probes. On scopes were you can adjust the input capacitance (which does not include the Tekway/Hantek scopes, as far as I know)

[rf-loop]

BTW if someone have Tektronix "input normalizer" (small box with BNC connectors) it is useful tool (it need be just made for this capacitance value what is scope input)... but today can not find very easy.

It's just an adjustable capacitor in a box. A 10:1 probe accomplishes exactly the same: making sure the capacitance of all channels is the same so you can swap probes without checking compensation each time. Just compensate the probe to one channel, and adjust the other channels so the signal looks the same. The actual capacitance value doesn't really matter as long as it's within the compensation range of your probes. On scopes were you can adjust the input capacitance (which does not include the Tekway/Hantek scopes, as far as I know)

Really? But why they sell these calibration fixtures for every different scope input capacitances seoarately. If it is adjusted capacitance how you can calibrate with it becouse you never know if capacitance is right.
Example here
http://www.classictek.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=category&id=105:calibration-fixtures&Itemid=57&layout=default
and there example this : 067-0538-00 Input Normalizer.

Also in tektronix service/calibration manuals ask put this "normalizer"  to scope input (and also extremely fast rising pulse generator) but never it tell that adjust this box capacitance. This box can use in calibration routines for adjusting device under calibration! If you adjust tools for calibration what you then calibrate? This "box" is afaik not itself adjustable becouse it is used for checking adjustment in calibration prosedure. But, also it can use for other purposes.

For every different scope capacitance value need buy different box.
I have never open this "input Normalizer" and I can not tell exactly what is inside.