Handheld Oscilloscope for Automotive

[maginnovision]

Just to clarify, the "software" being spoken of here is more related to the specific automotive tests that are built into the pico software, such as the starting and charging test that can detect battery, starter and alternator issues, cylinder balance and compression tests, can bus decoding and much more.

Yep. I'm fairly sure a "bench scope" doesn't have 150 guided tests built in for automotive diagnosis.

https://www.picoauto.com//library/automotive-guided-tests

That's the added value I'm referring to. It's what you're paying for, not the 'scope hardware.

And a library of thousands of good/bad waveforms to compare to...

Freely available online. Let's not forget that any tech that needs them REALLY shouldn't be blowing money on something so expensive when something much cheaper will work.

And also, auto electricians I know have more laptops and computers than wrenches...
Everything is PC (laptop) based. From service manuals, to all kinds of programmers, CAN/LIN diagnostics, ..

Any technician with more computers than wrenches is a bad tech. You don't care why comms aren't working internally. It goes like this usually... No comms with 1 or more control units. Check powers and grounds on affected modules. Check for shorts to power/ground on data lines, no shorts? Replace affected units. Shorts? Disconnect affected modules and recheck, no shorts? Reconnect modules rechecking bus until you find faulty unit. Shorts? Find short in harness. Occasionally you need to diagnose a faulty module causing issues on bus so you monitor with scope, typically just for glitches, while taking modules out of the loop.

Also in the electronics lab, I have several PC based instruments (2 USB scopes and SA, several USB logic analyzers.).
It  takes less space, 24" (touch) screen beats any physical instrument, and it makes saving data easy. I have a dedicated PC for  it and it works great.

This is fine for a mostly fixed lab, not for a highly dynamic workspace.

[maginnovision]

Hahaha, there are other automotive scopes for way less money.
They aren't worth the cost and the software isn't that special.

You miss the point.

You are paying for a deep memory (256 Ms) (yes Mega-samples)
A true 12 Bit A/D converter (up to 8 channels depending on model)
And the good support (which is minimum factor 4 more responsive as that for our 20K Eur desk top oscilloscope).

The worth is in the saving of time when evaluating+documenting complex pulse trains.

with best regards

Andreas

I've never needed any of those things to diagnose a vehicle.

You guys seem to think working on a vehicle, which is what the intended use for op was(along with very basic amplifier setup), is the same as diagnosing your latest design. Vehicles are much slower and much simpler. He's not looking to build or modify units from what he said so 8 channels, 12 bits, deep memory... It's almost useless. He also already bought a USB scope that he's happy with. Let picoscope do their own marketing rather than tell me what you think is required to fix cars.

[james_s]

It's rare that I can't fix a car with a multimeter and OBDII reader. Most of the electrical faults I find are bad sensors, dirty/corroded connectors and damaged wiring.

[SMdude]

Just to clarify, the "software" being spoken of here is more related to the specific automotive tests that are built into the pico software, such as the starting and charging test that can detect battery, starter and alternator issues, cylinder balance and compression tests, can bus decoding and much more.

Yep. I'm fairly sure a "bench scope" doesn't have 150 guided tests built in for automotive diagnosis.

https://www.picoauto.com//library/automotive-guided-tests

That's the added value I'm referring to. It's what you're paying for, not the 'scope hardware.

And a library of thousands of good/bad waveforms to compare to...

Freely available online. Let's not forget that any tech that needs them REALLY shouldn't be blowing money on something so expensive when something much cheaper will work.

And also, auto electricians I know have more laptops and computers than wrenches...
Everything is PC (laptop) based. From service manuals, to all kinds of programmers, CAN/LIN diagnostics, ..

Any technician with more computers than wrenches is a bad tech. You don't care why comms aren't working internally. It goes like this usually... No comms with 1 or more control units. Check powers and grounds on affected modules. Check for shorts to power/ground on data lines, no shorts? Replace affected units. Shorts? Disconnect affected modules and recheck, no shorts? Reconnect modules rechecking bus until you find faulty unit. Shorts? Find short in harness. Occasionally you need to diagnose a faulty module causing issues on bus so you monitor with scope, typically just for glitches, while taking modules out of the loop.

Also in the electronics lab, I have several PC based instruments (2 USB scopes and SA, several USB logic analyzers.).
It  takes less space, 24" (touch) screen beats any physical instrument, and it makes saving data easy. I have a dedicated PC for  it and it works great.

This is fine for a mostly fixed lab, not for a highly dynamic workspace.

Well I had a situation where the can bus would go bad intermittently.
Checking wiring found no rub marks etc.
The Pico automotive scopes come with long test leads so you don't have to be right next to where you are measuring.
I was able to find the exact cause of the fault very quickly once I hooked up the scope to the can bus.
Sure, this could have been any battery powered scope, but I already have the laptop with me as the OEM service tool.
I could have used any half decent scope to do that same job, but the pico is what we have and is supported and recommended by the OEM.

The built in tests and tutorials are great because many automotive mechanics are not familiar with a scope and struggle with a multi-meter. So it can guide you. The compression/balance and starting tests are quite nifty too.

Ive used the scope with a current sensor(supplied in kit) to find intermittent shorts and also to find broken wires in a loom, bad connections in plugs, bad earths, find internal mechanical faults, hydraulic pressure testing, confirm dead sensors and even find/confirm software faults. I could use any half reasonable 4ch portable scope as I don't need the tutorials and reference waveforms due to understanding the sensors and systems I am working with and could make test leads as required, but for a workshop something like the pico automotive scope is great because it comes with everything you need(long leads, current sensors) to do most of the testing you will need to do with it along with the tutorials that will help you save time if anyone is game enough to touch it!

As James_S said, most of the electrical faults I find are damaged wiring, corroded connectors and bad sensors, in that order.

[maginnovision]

I'm not arguing it is useless, but here in NA technicians own their tools. I haven't worked at a shop yet that had a general purpose scope for people to use. You either had your own or you borrowed one. Some manufacturers use standard PC's(or laptops) and some don't and that might influence your decision. When it comes to cost efficiency of a tool though the automotive picoscope is going to be very low, if not on the bottom, of that list. Their standard scopes don't fare much better if you need to buy a laptop for it. It absolutely seems to be an OEM style tool, not a technician preferred one. Even at 180K a year I'd absolutely recommend against it. I wouldn't laugh at someone if I saw them using it but I would be curious why they decided to spend their money on that. At BMW we'd have 2, if any, cables connected to a car for diag. 1 Ethernet if your wireless network is down for the head, and 1 for a battery charger. For both of those cable though they become a part of your static workspace. That's only my opinion for professional use.

For someone who wants it available when they need it for their cars, maybe friends and family? It's throwing money in the trash. I'd much more likely recommend https://www.ebay.com/itm/153728432602 The $400 version even includes two different current clamps.