Which (old) Logic Analyser?

[TiN]

No need anything special, just usual MSDN Windows. Drivers are embedded in Tektronix Application setup, so they will be installed automatically (it's PCI Bridge driver from what I recall).
I had bad harddrive in my TLA, so just installed fresh one and setup everything from scratch.

Key for modules options is stored in module vxWorks NVRAM/ROM, independently of OS/x86 side.

[nctnico]

I wouldn't go for a large mainframe. Too much noise.

[Sailor]

TiN, thanks for that. In your TLA7AA4 hacks thread I see talk about firmware revisions; is that the vxWorks code in the MC68360 that you mention?
Besides the firmware files, there must also be an app for installing them in modules - or is that just a part of a single monolithic Tek app for the analyzer? As you can see, I'm still trying to get my head around the 'big-picture' of exactly what goes into a TLA7xx and what makes it run. I can (just) imagine those firmware updates being on the Tek web site, but what about the main app, and any other utility/support apps? Surely they don't come for free from the Tek site? Do they?!?

The only problem is that the search engine on Tektronix' website isn't very good. However all the information and software is there! It just takes more effort to find it.

I've spent a lot of time on that site, and found non-intuative ways of accessing some of the old material, but so far none of the 'hard-core' firmware and apps code If you tell me that it's there, I'll just keep pushing buttons until I do find it

Edit: I've found the Ver 4.4 and d/l it. I haven't unpacked it yet, but I gather that the module firmware(s) will be found in a seperate folder of that package.

The Tek search/download function is completely nuts!

I wouldn't go for a large mainframe. Too much noise.

I hear you (or perhaps not, I'm going deaf in my old age!), I too hate screaming fans. But even the portables like the TLA714 have half-a-dozen fans on the side...

[echen1024]

The scumbag $no...reserve on eBay, or something like that, sold me a broken one with a screwy hard drive, and once that was fixed, a bad acquisition card (TLA704). When you turned it on, the whole room would start whirring.

[TerraHertz]

@TerraHertz
I've had a good read of the Shipito.com site, and it certainly sounds good. I threw some numbers into their calculator and the figures they came up with are quite attractive, especially when the dimensions/weight get beyond the normal postal limits. I'll give them a try when I finally settle on a LA.

Thank you.

You're welcome. But like I said, don't do a big TLA as the first thing you run through Shipito. There are a few things you need to get the hang of first. For one, they have a 'max expenditure per month' limit, that is quite small to begin with (a few hundred $) and only goes up as you establish your identity with them. Ultimately you have to complete and snail mail a US government form to them, with assorted forms of ID, before you become '100% known' and get the maximum spend limit. It seems like something they're forced to do by government regulation, not something that benefits them.

Since 'spend' includes International freight, if you try doing a big transport first thing you could end up getting the package stuck at their warehouse. Unable to be shipped because you're not allowed to pay for it... Catch-22.
And that is going to cost you, especially if it's oversize.
This never happened to me, but it did delay some purchases I wanted to make, till the whole ID thing was sorted out.

Another small trap - Really big boxes can be oversize for your 'mailbox' at some of their warehouses. Check that before you choose which warehouse to send a purchase to. If an item is oversize it incurs a small daily charge. But even if you've paid the shipping bill, the box won't be shipped if there is an outstanding fee. Ha ha.. the fee bills around their midnight.
You can set it up to auto-pay from your deposit with them. But if you forget to do that, the box gets wedged - you pay the fee, but next day there's another, so it still doesn't ship. It's only a couple of dollars, but I did once have a large box stuck a couple of days till I worked that one out.
Fortunately their help support people are very good, and you can actually have conversations with real helpful humans. Unlike ebay.

As for choosing which warehouse to use... You get several 'mailing addresses', one at each warehouse. You set your ebay/paypal shipping address to whichever one you want. You can change it back and forth for individual purchases. Very useful, especially when buying from ebay sellers who don't want to sell overseas. You just don't tell them you are not actually in the USA. Your address looks like you are.

Downside is that for some of the addresses like in California, you'll get charged local sales tax by the seller if you use a CA warehouse. For this you can use other ones, such as Nevada. BUT! It's not such a simple equation, since all airfreight goes through LA International, and if you have something ground shipped to Nevada, then you are going to pay a higher airfreight bill due to the extra hop and handling by whatever airfreight company you choose.
On top of all that, if you do a lot of packages through a single Shipito site, you end up getting an extra bulk discount from them. So there's a 'lost advantage' from chopping and changing.
It can be a headache working through the different options, if you're trying to save the last possible percentage point on costs.

These days I just run everything through the Hawthorne CA site, since I'm mostly consolidating multiple very small purchases like manuals to single parcel shipping to Oz.
The Hawthorne CA site is about one mile from LA International. From Hawthorne to my door in Sydney, TNT really does do it in 2 to 3 days. For prices that are usually cheaper than everyone else's quotes on Shipito's system. It's amazing.

[Sailor]

Solid Gold, mate Lots of little gems in there...

You just don't tell them you are not actually in the USA. Your address looks like you are.

If I change my Paypal shipping address, will this take care of the following sort of caveat on some seller's site?

'We will only ship to the address of the buyer's PayPal account.'

[Sailor]

P6810 probes to go with TLA7Axx modules appear to be very hard to come by. Are there other probes that are suitable for that module?

[TerraHertz]

Solid Gold, mate Lots of little gems in there...

You just don't tell them you are not actually in the USA. Your address looks like you are.

If I change my Paypal shipping address, will this take care of the following sort of caveat on some seller's site?
'We will only ship to the address of the buyer's PayPal account.'

Ebay and Paypal are now one company, with unified billing.
In ebay, via your login name --> Account settings --> Addresses --> primary shipping address
You can set up several addresses, and select which one of them is current. It applies to both ebay and paypal, and changes become effective immediately. Best to double check you have it set right before paying for an item, because if you have it wrong you're in for a world of pain.
When you pay for an item, your current shipping address is passed to the seller. And no, they are NOT going to ship it to some other address you give them later. So get it right.

Typically these addresses in ebay/paypal are supposed to include a phone number. But Shipito does not want to be answering phones, and there's no phone number associated with your shipito addresses. The simplest way around this is to enter (888) 888-8888. It's accepted by ebay's system.


Another thing to watch out for is forgetting to set your ebay address back afterwards to whatever you want your default address to be.

P6810 probes to go with TLA7Axx modules appear to be very hard to come by. Are there other probes that are suitable for that module?

You know that's a differential data probe, with LA connector that doesn't fit the cheaper TLA7M/N/etc modules?
But it can be used with single ended data, via the right end leadset.
For single ended data, and cheaper TLA7M/N/etc modules, P6418 & P6417. The difference between these is physical; the 6417 is more robust and can have individual channel wires replaced.
The TLA721 and other mainframes are nice in that you can get modules with high bandwidth and memory depth. But do you want to start with the top end modules? There are much cheaper modules and probes to start with.
Also the target board interconnects are easier with the lower bandwidth ones.
Plus, wouldn't you want to be testing the mainframe initially with the lowest cost module you can find?

There are lots of probe types, some with only minor differences, others major. Like the P6860 for TLA7Axx modules, which has direct PCB pressure contact.

I don't know why there seem to be no P6810 listed at the moment. Chance?
Ha ha ha! How's this for most absurd ebay pricing? Item 140744382608.  A P6810 probe, for US $5,795.00! And there's not even a pic of the complete probe, so it _could_ be just a single line spare part kit.
Maybe a typo, and they meant $57.95? Offer them $40. If it's a complete probe.

It really is best to get some old Tek catalogs.

[Sailor]

Thanks for confirming the Paypal bit - the (888) number is a handy tip also.

The reason I asked about the P6810 probes is because that was the only probe listed for the TLA7Axx in the Tek 'Logic Analyzers - Detailed Product Information' (page 34) document that I was reading (dated 2002). The P6817/18 are only listed for those TLA7M/N/etc modules. Because some of the systems I am looking at have TLA7Axx modules with them, and as I *really* like the memory depth on them, I figured that I should look for the right probes.

Yes, I saw that listing too... and if you keep looking long enough for TLA7Axx, you'll find some listed at $15,000 and more - one was $29,000!

I've also looked at several TLA715 portables. As they can have external k/b, mouse, and monitors (up to 1600 x 1200), that is essentially where I would be at with something like a TLA720. Are there any particular drawbacks to a '715? I don't see the limited slots as a problem for me..

Regards

[nctnico]

P6860 probes are more common. Some come with a Mictor adapter but it isn't hard to make an adapter to 2.54mm headers.

[Sailor]

Do you have any feel for the longevity of the elastomer pad on the probe? Tek specify (not unreasonably) a storage method that protects them when not in use. I would be pretty sure that ebay probes will just be stored in a bin with a dozen similar bits and pieces, so they may not work so well when you receive them. Any idea of how much replacement pads cost?

[TiN]

715 is same as 714, just better CPU/memory. If unit is controlled remotely it does not make difference. Usability of LA running standalone
with it's small screen and slow UI is pretty crappy, so only option for me is to have TLA App running on my speedy workstation, so basically
TLA is like an bulky dongle for PC . 2 modules limitation in portables can backfire if you plan to work on big parallel buses or memory interfaces,
for example DDR. NEX DIMM full-width interpose requires four 7Ax/Bx modules for complete capture, for example. But if your focus just common debug,
then there is no difference on either portable or remotely controlled mainframe.

A P6810 probe, for US $5,795.00

As of probes - you got it there, probes are where all the money sits in LA business. P6860 are common multichannel ones for 7AA/AB/AC/Bx modules, support both
single-ended and differential, while much more expensive P6810 is more for every day work. All these probes are active, they have a buffer close
to tip. I even opened up one channel to take photos, and posted it somewhere here sometime ago. If you want I can post photos of gear I have for TLA.
Cheapest way probably get P6860 (probably end up around 150-200$ if have patience), 6860 to mictor adapter (cost pretty penny too, I paid 100 for mine),
and then mictor to 2.54mm or whatever you like (this you can build youself, nothing special or buy common mictor breakout dongles). This will get you
34 channels or 17 differentials (but there some limitations on 6860 to mictor adapter), which can be really fast. I had no issues with 100MHz signals in such setup.
If you want have everything nice then you can hunt for P6810, but I guess it would not be cheaper than 500-1000$, used. And leadsets are around 50$ each too..
http://www.tek.com/support/faqs/general-purpose-probing-why-would-i-choose-p6810-over-p6960-optional-general-purpose-le

Or if you in DIY, you can get some cheaper low popularity probes, and modify them for your specific needs, but performance will be worse than above.
Or can design something like http://www.movingpixel.com/main.pl?SQUIRE.html, but buying mating connector for TLA mezzanine might be not easy.

As for elastomer, don't know if it's long-life but both of my P6860 probes work just fine without any service. Got them off ebay of course.

[Sailor]

Thanks for posting TiN, I remembered that you had a 714. From what I know, there isn't any LAN port on the 714/5, but I am aware of a thread here where you have been talking about remote control of your system., I'll look it up, but what is the interface that you are using? USB, PC Card, ...?

I'm pretty sure that I will be getting a 715. It has a TLA7aa2, and some (2 or 3 ??) P6810s and some other odds and ends. I'm sorting it out with the seller.

There are some cheap P6860s at the moment, and I'd thought of making my own transition board - gold pads on each side and then just run a lead to a socket for 0.5mm / 0.025sq pins. I could easily tag a few such boards onto some layouts that I'm doing at the moment. I remember seeing that pod that you opened, do you think it would be practical to attach the flying leads directly into the pod?

Regards,

[TiN]

PCMCIA Lan.

If you getting 715 with aa2 and 6810 probes it's really nice deal. Probes alone cost more than anything else.
You probably will never need 6860's if you have 6810.

[Sailor]

Well, I bought 4 of them anyway. $30 each was a good price, I thought.

[Sailor]

My TLA715 is still several weeks away, but I am trying to prepare for it. I have an Intel MBLA3456 (PCMCIA LAN card) coming, and a couple of second-hand Hitachi Travelstars (for alternate OS tests, etc).

I believe my unit has only one 256MB SODIMM installed, and I will get another to boost it to 512MB - actually I would get two (identical) modules. But I'm also wondering if the board will actually make use of larger modules e.g. 2 x 512MB, so my question is:

Has anyone tried installing larger memory modules (larger than those in the old Tek spec sheets) into a 714 or 715? i.e. maybe Tek designed in all the trackwork, but only spec'd the currently-available memory sizes.

Regards,

OK, just answered my own question. The 815E chipset (used with the Pentium III in the TLA715) can only handle 512MB. It wasn't until the Celeron and later that gigabyte memory was possible. (sigh...) it's hard to remember using such primitive machines...