Good multimeter for general purpose electronics repair, etc..?

[Acecool]

So I'm looking into which one to buy and so far I've just been using sub $20 meters. The most expensive meter I have is the DER DE-5000 but I want an actual multimeter for voltage, etc... with protection..


I have an open budget but I'm hoping to spend under $200 or so..


I would like temperature to be a part, I do want a high accuracy and a bar graph would be nice with faster update speed than LCD ( ie: not a gimmick version )
etc... A backlight would be nice. I would prefer to not have the new style LCD gimmick going around ( the black ) as if I ever do decide on using it outside, they are hard to read and I do plan on building my own backup generator solution along with solar, wind and water power generation - battery storage, etc...

So:
+ Temp
+ Backlight
+ High count / high accuracy
+ graph
+ min / max

any more features which may be useful for my use-cases...

It will be used for electronics, repair, ranging from small to large ( PCB stuff to home energy solutions ).


I am more of a software guy, but I am getting into hardware with what little time I do have available to me when I'm able to move around. I have worked on a few projects - mostly software and I have built a few things. I have done a lot of repairs - I can usually diagnose and repair an issue pretty easily... I have only had 1 issue with my APC 1300 but I haven't spent a lot of time looking into that just yet....

I would rather buy quality once than buy cheap things over and over again, so if it is a big more, that's fine. A lifetime warranty would be ideal.


I was looking into a few such as the Fluke 17B+ but that comes with 0 warranty outside of China. EEVBlog Brymen units, etc.. but I'm unsure on those warranties and they've been hard to find in stock.


What do you recommend?

[nctnico]

I'd look at the DMMs from Keysight for your use case. Well respected A-brand and reasonable prices.

[DaJMasta]

Look at the Brymen BM869s.  Right price range, a bit on the large side, though.  I think the 869s comes with a temp probe, I've got the 867s which is specified a bit lower and has fewer accessories, don't think it will do temperature.

[Wytnucls]

Put a bid on this new Fluke 87 V.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Fluke-87-V-True-RMS-Industrial-Multimeter-with-Temp-New-Open-Box/224105908821?epid=4032705507&hash=item342dc0ca55:g:V14AAOSwjLFfKeON&shqty=1&isGTR=1#shId

[Fungus]

Remember: One meter isn't enough. You need at least two. One of them can be cheap (eg. There's plenty of very capable Chinese meters for $25, they're just not CAT rated).

Brymen are the best bang/buck for "serious" meters, they're sold under the Greenlee brand in the USA (and are green in color  ).

[Fungus]

Put a bid on this new Fluke 87 V.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Fluke-87-V-True-RMS-Industrial-Multimeter-with-Temp-New-Open-Box/224105908821?epid=4032705507&hash=item342dc0ca55:g:V14AAOSwjLFfKeON&shqty=1&isGTR=1#shId

Too late, I just got first bid on it! 

Edit: Oh, no, I've been outbid! Come on, who was it...? 

[NoisyBoy]

If you want a long warranty, I believe Fluke may be your only choice.  If you care about warranty, e-Bay is not the right place to go, as most manufacturer (probably all) do not honor an e-Bay sales receipt from a private party.  You also may not know how old the meter is and when it was calibrated last (if that matters to you).

I have the 179 for about a year, very happy with it.  It does not have the uA range like the 87V, but it checks all the boxes you specified.  If you need to deal with small current measurement, the 87V is a better option.

Personally, I would buy one good meter.  Since you are dealing with various power generation system, you don't want a cheap meter that could pose as a danger.  Or having to make the decision of which meter to grab, or which to trust.  That is unless you have the need to do multiple point measure simultaneously.  Once you have experienced with a good meter, my guess is your second meter will also be a A-brand model.

Good luck, I hope it helps.

[nctnico]

Personally, I would buy one good meter.  Since you are dealing with various power generation system, you don't want a cheap meter that could pose as a danger.  Or having to make the decision of which meter to grab, or which to trust.

I agree. When dealing with high energy / power (not just high voltage but also high current!) having a meter from a trusted brand is a good idea. At least there is a company with money your relatives can sue if something goes terribly wrong.

[bdunham7]

If you want to stay in or near your budget, look at the Fluke 115/116/117 family--each has different options.  The 117 is specifically for electricians, but I would prefer the 116 if I was buying.  TEquipment has a special a bit over your budget for a combo kit with the 116 and an IR temp gun.

If you are willing to bust your budget a bit, go for the 179 and look at the EDA-2 kit, it comes with some nice probe-like test hooks.

If you are willing to bust your budget a lot, look at the Fluke 289.  TEquipment has a special combo with the i400 current clamp, but you don't get the Type K thermocouple, a problem which can be remedied by busting your budget even further and buying the TLK289 industrial lead set.  This may seem extravagant, but I think having proper leads and hooks for high energy systems is actually more important than having a high CAT-rated meter. 

Or, there's this:

https://www.tequipment.net/Simpson270-5RT.asp?Source=googleshopping&utm_source=Criteo&utm_medium=CPC&utm_campaign=Dynamic%20Remarketing

[wizard69]

So I'm looking into which one to buy and so far I've just been using sub $20 meters. The most expensive meter I have is the DER DE-5000 but I want an actual multimeter for voltage, etc... with protection..

From what you describe in this message you really want to buy a meter that meets the Cat safety specs.   So I'd immediately narrow your lists to those vendors that have a reputation for solid meters.

I'm a big fan of Fluke meters mainly due to being treated well in the past for service needs.   That was some time ago but I still believe they provide the same high level of service.   Of course Fluke isn't the only company making quality hand held meters but they are always high on my list when questions like this pop up.

As someone already suggested there will be times when you will want or need two meters, it doesn't hurt too much if one is "low end" but you really should have a good "high end" meter.   It doesn't have to be excessively high end but should have good specifications RMS conversation of AC measurements and be battle tank rugged.   As a result I'm going to suggest going a bit over budget.    For example the Keysight #U1241C has a whole host of features you might find useful for the things you have expressed interest in.  Yes I know it isn't a Fluke but it popped up high on a list of meters I just did a parameter search on.

I have an open budget but I'm hoping to spend under $200 or so..

Yeah I'd prefer to see you go to $300.   Mainly because you can get a instrument that covers a lot of the use cases you described below.   It also handles temperature differential measurement that might come in handy for your alternative power interests.

I would like temperature to be a part, I do want a high accuracy and a bar graph would be nice with faster update speed than LCD ( ie: not a gimmick version )
etc... A backlight would be nice.

A backlight should be mandatory.

I would prefer to not have the new style LCD gimmick going around ( the black ) as if I ever do decide on using it outside, they are hard to read and I do plan on building my own backup generator solution along with solar, wind and water power generation - battery storage, etc...

So:
+ Temp
+ Backlight
+ High count / high accuracy
+ graph
+ min / max

it should be noted that some of your interest  imply buying extras for your meter.   For example high current measurements in a battery system would require some sort of DC current probe or a shunt.   Temperature measurements may require buying  range of probes.

By the way almost any DC meter can be turned into a temperature probe with the right adapter.   You don't need an advanced meter to take simple temperature readings.   More so in many cases it makes sense to buy off the shelf temperature displays.

any more features which may be useful for my use-cases...

It will be used for electronics, repair, ranging from small to large ( PCB stuff to home energy solutions ).


I am more of a software guy, but I am getting into hardware with what little time I do have available to me when I'm able to move around. I have worked on a few projects - mostly software and I have built a few things. I have done a lot of repairs - I can usually diagnose and repair an issue pretty easily... I have only had 1 issue with my APC 1300 but I haven't spent a lot of time looking into that just yet....

I would rather buy quality once than buy cheap things over and over again, so if it is a big more, that's fine. A lifetime warranty would be ideal.

I'm not sure if a lifetime warranty is even possible in the electronics world.   At work one of our old Agilent meters went on the blink and Keysight just offered to sell us a new one.   The industry changes fast and sometimes you just can't easily get parts.   I'd rather know tht I can get good service than to expect a lifetime warranty.

I was looking into a few such as the Fluke 17B+ but that comes with 0 warranty outside of China. EEVBlog Brymen units, etc.. but I'm unsure on those warranties and they've been hard to find in stock.


What do you recommend?

Well for one stay out of China!

The second most important thing here is safety, you want confidence that the meter isn't going to the be the reason you get fried in an arc-flash event.   Which brings up an important point, the battery systems in a home power system can generate significant currents at high voltage, that can be extremely dangerous.   How much depends upon the battery system but we can easily see currents well over 1000 amps in a sort circuit event.

The third issue is that you are interested in things that might not be mainstream electronics so meter features that is helpful working AC power systems is an advantage.   

The fourth issue is Alkaline batteries which suck!   Most manufactures have moved to either AA or AAA batteries for power and these pieces of crap leak terribly and can ruin your heft investment in a meter.   It is this singular concern that would have me looking at a meter that doesn't use or can run with alternatives to  alkaline batteries if I was to buy one today.   So look for a manufacture that has at the very least validated that their meters work with rechargeable AA or AAA battery tech.   I bring this up because DMM's often live a life where they get used one day and may be put away for days or weeks to be used again.   In other words enough time for the batteries to leak and ruin your nice new meter.   There are whole threads on this subject but my personal experience is that the risks are real.

Fifth most meters come with a pretty basic set of probes.   You will almost immediately need a better probe set.   The sets differ a bit between "electronics" and "electrical" which could put yourself into needing to supplement one kit with the probes, alligators or whatever that are missing from the other.   This means a significant outlay for fancy wire.   Due to your interests you really want to be buying the fully shrouded stuff.   This just highlights that you will be adding to the expense of the meter to completely outfit it.   You however don't need to do this all at once.

Sixths don't underestimate the value in big backlighted characters on the screen of a DMM, especially when used in the field.   Ideally the screen would be readable 10-20 feet away in a dark room.

[Shock]

If i was buying new value for money I'd probably go for the Brymen BM869s. It has some unique features for the price like dual display, dual temp, resolution and logging. But one thing that is missing on the Fluke 87V and the Brymen BM869s is a LoZ feature. Aside from that both meters are chunky monkeys with the Brymen being larger, since I use meters on the bench it's a non issue.

The only two Fluke meters I'd consider new are the Fluke 117 and Fluke 87V. The Fluke 87V makes the Fluke 117 a bit obsolete but it has LoZ and portability going for it. Despite the Fluke 117 lacking temp and low current ranges they really aren't missed if just doing repair and hobby electronics.

I have most of the Brymen BM869s features covered already on other meters so I've not felt the urge to buy a couple. I think it's about the best electronics engineering option for the home user in that price range. If you were going secondhand I'd say Fluke 87V should be plenty but you will be still paying around the same price as the Brymen BM869s for less features.

[Fungus]

If i was buying new value for money I'd probably go for the Brymen BM869s. It has some unique features for the price like dual display, dual temp, resolution and logging. But one thing that is missing on the Fluke 87V and the Brymen BM869s is a LoZ feature. Aside from that both meters are chunky monkeys with the Brymen being larger, since I use meters on the bench it's a non issue.

There's also the 859s which has about the same features but is smaller, slightly cheaper and has a square, industrial look about it that I kinda like. I actually own the 857s which is a cut down version.

The main differences are that it doesn't have the dual display and it's "only" CAT IV 600V. Apart from that... almost identical.

[duckduck]

Another vote for the Fluke 179. They are around US$300 new, but can be found on evil bay for sub-200. I bought a new one about 8 years ago and I have been very happy with it.

You should also be keeping a very close eye on this for when our Dear Leader finally gets these in: https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/us$150-class-multimeter/

EDIT:

Here are the sold listings in evil bay for "Fluke 179": https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_nkw=fluke+179&_sacat=0&rt=nc&LH_Sold=1&LH_Complete=1

[Acecool]

Thank you all for your replies... I already have several meters... a junk Harbor freight freebie ( quite a few of these actually.. probably 3 or more different models which are usually only used for light car checks, continuity checks, and 5v / 3.3v light electronic checks. ), a Sperry DM-210A which has been my main multimeter for a while now ( not a fan of the 9V and the cheap leads, or the fact that safety leads don't fit all the way in so I have to use bare ones ), the DER DE-5000 true RMS which I use for specific tasks and I am working on modifying to make it quicker to use, easier... also adding in a cap discharging circuit which will either be put inside the housing with metal contacts and / or a place to plug cap leads into to discharge them if I can't make a circuit which can be plugged into the main circuit, or plugged in between because charged caps will apparently blow this unit up and I would love for there to be a circuit I could plug between, or something which would prevent this from happening so I can just check caps without having to worry... ie: building in the cap discharger would simply make discharging caps quicker because I could plug it into one socket, up near the power button or the top right... then check them... and I also have an old analog multimeter too. actually a few of those...

None of my multimeters are over $10 or $20 I don't think.... The DER DE-5000 is about $100ish with all of the accessories ( USB adapter, the carry case, 2x T22 tweezers, 1 modified for GX16, 1 not, 1 box modified for GX16, 2 sets of $20 alligator clips BNC, BNC removed from one in favor of GX16 connector so I can plug in 1 thing... etc.. all of this works quite well except I'll likely be taking someones advice and going with the XLR high quality gold plated audio connectors with lower resistance... etc... much better... either the 4 pin, or the 5 pin with a jumper to ground instead of the GX as the GX connectors aren't really high quality for precise measuring - but they do pass calibration on the unit when some other things I have tried have failed - such as an el-cheapo banana plug tweezer, and other things... )

I may get the $25 Aneng 2008 or whatever it is reviewed by Dave as a replacement to the Sperry because the leads will fit and he had good things to say - and as an el-cheapo just to have for quick things it is good enough... then for serious things, or where more accuracy is needed I'll be looking through all of your recommendations and picking one... This way I have a slightly better el-cheapo instead of the Sperry with more features... in addition I'll get something really nice.

I would love for it to be calibrated, but I'm sure Fluke, etc.. will likely hold the calibration for a while - and for me, right now, it doesn't need to be pinpoint razor-edge accuracy... but close would be nice just because I am meticulous.. From what I've read Fluke does do software based calibration apparently so there may be a way for me to calibrate it later??? If so I'll probably get a set of those calibration kits with the resistors, and all that jazz - or at least a few different values just to check to see how close it is and if it moves over time.

I would love for this meter to last - that being said, I have yet to have a meter blow up on me, or fail.... even the el-cheapos... but then again I never used those for anything other than 12v car stuff and 5v / 3.3v electronics... basic stuff. or for for checking shorts.

A warranty would be really nice - but it isn't a dealbreaker especially because of how well built most of the higher end units are - but then again if something does go wrong and I can't fix it... it would really be nice to just have it taken care of...

I also just ordered 3 separate temperature sensing units ( 1 for soldering irons, and 2 other types of stand-alone units for sensing temps which aren't expensive but for just sensing temp it shouldn't be that pricey to do anyways ) so that being built into the multimeter isn't a requirement anymore, but would be nice just to have another reference point.

I am going to be buying the 8000 series probemasters... likely thge $50 kit with 2 or 3 addon pairs plus the attachment for the 9000 series attachments which can be quickly plugged in / released... or I'll just get the 9000 series attachments and the 8000 series probes...  will see...


So I will read through everything that each of you has posted here and check out all of the links you've posted and go through all of that before deciding on a multimeter....

Thank you to each and every one of you for responding, it is a big help to get your feedback on meters that have worked for you, or that you believe will work for me for my use-case... so thank you for taking the time; I will review everything.


Edit:

Probemasters kit: https://probemaster.com/8000-series-test-lead-master-kits/ is $53.90 but if you add the stuff up individually it is $77.65 so $23.75 saved... unless the pincer hook is red and black together - but the others are all bought individually so I added that up separate and it is almost $8... (* the link is broken... https://probemaster.com/4956-pincer-hook/ is the correct one and https://probemaster.com/4956ph-pincer-hook/ only shows BLACK so they need to fix that on their site - will let them know. )

Plus: 8056 Banana Tip Adapter- 8000 Series Test Leads black and red
9156 Alligator Clip 1/4" black and red
9157 Alligator Clip 1" black and red.

I may even decide to just get the base probemaster 8000 series, the bnc adapter, then the attachments in 9000 series and the box... it would be more expensive but then I wouldn't have to worry about screwing things in... although having a firmly screwed clip could be beneficial in certain situations so I may buy that what I have listed, and a few additional things as needed later or before I place the order... so far it is $90 before tax and there should be free shipping with the order amount... but this way I'll have quality leads for a good meter.

I may even buy an extra set of the 8000 series leads so I have 2... Right now I have 48" set for the lead length - 3 feet may be too short so the 4 footer may be better... also the 10 footer doesn't seem to cost any extra but I think that is overkill... especially as it doesn't look like the wire comes apart so I can't just get that, disassemble it and make the wires shorter - or it would be the length to go with because of the free high quality cable...


Any thoughts on this would be nice... will use for everything from cars to electronics, smds, etc.. First major thing I have to work on is my UPS - have to fix that as the charging circuit keeps flipping but the batteries seem fine. monitors are easy to fix - have a few shorting out so that'll be easy. although monitors, good monitors, are around the $80 mark for 1080p so it is coming to a point where it isn't even worth it... it's like just salvage parts and scrap it... or strip it and sell for parts.

[MosherIV]

. From what I've read Fluke does do software based calibration apparently so there may be a way for me to calibrate it later??? If so I'll probably get a set of those calibration kits with the resistors, and all that jazz - or at least a few different values just to check to see how close it is and if it moves over time

Yes, modern Fluke dmm are calibrated by sw.
It is not advisable to attempt to adjust the calibration of a dmm unless you have a full dmm calibration instrument. To properly adjust the calibration of a dmm, you need to supply 80% full scale for each range and then adjust the dmm to read 80% full scale
Eg on 20V dc range apply 16V and adjust the dmm to read 16.0V
This must be done for all ranges and all function ie dc V, dc Amps, resistance, ac V, ac Amps etc.
Most home hobbiests do not have this ability.
In addition, the calibration must be done in controlled enviromental conditions, ie 22celcius and between 30 to 50% relative humidity

When you send a dmm for calibration, they mainly just check the dmm readings are within specification and supply a report. They will only adjust it if it is out of specification.

By all means, collect stuff to check the calibration yourself (live a voltage standard) but that is not enough to perform a calibration. I have plenty of equipment to check dmm calibration myself but I would not attempt to calibrate it myself.

[Acecool]

@MosherIV

Thank you for the clarification - So you wouldn't be able to just recalibrate one section... ie: if the resistance is off, but everything else is spot on... If controlled by software you'd think that would be possible - but if you send it in yeah... I'm sure they would check and redo everything just to ensure it doesn't come back...

So yeah - I'll just collect some verified / calibrated test components which I'll use just to verify but not to calibrate... I highly doubt it'll ever need to be recalibrated for my current use-cases - maybe in the future if they slide too far out of true. But how common is that? I mean, everything ages, so I would assume it would happen, but it would likely be over the course of years - and it would only be something major if one of the chips onboard or resistors or something onboard failed or whatever... replacing a broken or messed up chip with an original would put it within an acceptable margin of error...


I saw an almost complete kit of calibrated components on eBay for around $900... 1 sec:

ARCO SS-32 Precision Standard Capacitors Kit. Very Rare Unit - https://www.ebay.com/itm/ARCO-SS-32-Precision-Standard-Capacitors-Kit-Very-Rare-Unit/124116961975?_trksid=p2485497.m4902.l9144

It is missing a few pieces.... but it seems like if you were to buy the individual components, it is about $200 + higher... however the value lies in the fact that it has the container, and is quite complete... Maybe someone is interested in it. I don't do enough to warrant myself purchasing such a kit - and it is BEST OFFER, so....

[Fungus]

I may get the $25 Aneng 2008 or whatever

I'd get the 860B+ or 870B+.

(I've got an 8008 but the 8008 goes unused next to the 860B+)

[Corner]

If i was buying new value for money I'd probably go for the Brymen BM869s. It has some unique features for the price like dual display, dual temp, resolution and logging. But one thing that is missing on the Fluke 87V and the Brymen BM869s is a LoZ feature. Aside from that both meters are chunky monkeys with the Brymen being larger, since I use meters on the bench it's a non issue.

There's also the 859s which has about the same features but is smaller, slightly cheaper and has a square, industrial look about it that I kinda like. I actually own the 857s which is a cut down version.

The main differences are that it doesn't have the dual display and it's "only" CAT IV 600V. Apart from that... almost identical.

I'm going to have to disagree on this one.

I have 857s and 869s. 857s seems to be using a different processor or something, it takes longer for readings to stabalise especially in 500,000 count voltage mode (usually over 5 seconds), and ohms range takes over 10 seconds or more to stabalise for small resistances (try shorting the leads and wait for it to give you a stable reading). Looking at a friend's 859s, it exhibits the exact same behaviour. The 869s doesn't have such problems and readings all feel confident on 869s.

If he's spending that much on a meter, may as well go for the BM869s.

[Zucca]

Put a bid on this new Fluke 87 V.

Amen!

[MosherIV]

if they slide too far out of true. But how common is that? I mean, everything ages, so I would assume it would happen, but it would likely be over the course of years - and it would only be something major if one of the chips onboard or resistors or something onboard failed or whatever... replacing a broken or messed up chip with an original would put it within an acceptable margin of error.

For good quality dmms, they almost never drift out of calibration.
I have bought a number of used dmms off ebay and they are all within specification.
Since I work with electronics, the dmms at work are calibrated (checked for within specification) and I check one or 2 of my dmms against the calibrated ones at work to get an idea of the calibration of my dmms. So far none have been out of spec.

Bear in mind that your test references will drift with time as well. So which is correct, your dmm or your reference?
Test houses that perform calibrations check their calibration equipment against their own test references which is calibrated against national references, which in turn is calibrated against international test reference.

Yes, if the dmm needs fixing, it can affect the calibration but if it has been repaired by yourself would you trust the CAT rating after the repair?

With sw calibration, you may not be able to just calibrate a single range. The sw may guide you through a preset routine where you have to calibrate each range.
Also bear in mind that there is a charge for the sw, it is normally quite expensive for hobbiest, so only test houses will buy the sw.

[EEVblog]

I have new sub $150 class meter coming out fairly soon. 50,000 count, nominal 0.03%+2
Think of the BM235 but with more resolution, accuracy, bargraph, and AutoHold.

[Gandalf_Sr]

I'm also a fan of Keysight meters, very well designed and made; better than Fluke IMHO.

There's a new U1233A listed on the Keysight eBay store right now for $211 but you'll have to add your state's tax to that.  They usually have a 'make offer' option and I've found will accept a 90% bid.  $211 is the list price for this meter on the Keysight website.  I own 3 Keysight multimeters and have a 34461A as my main calibrated bench meter, they are all great meters.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Keysight-U1233A-True-RMS-6000-Count-Handheld-Digital-Multimeter-/182427211642?hash=item2a7982577a

[Fungus]

857s seems to be using a different processor or something, it takes longer for readings to stabalise especially in 500,000 count voltage mode (usually over 5 seconds), and ohms range takes over 10 seconds or more to stabalise for small resistances (try shorting the leads and wait for it to give you a stable reading).

??

I just shorted my leads in Ohms mode and it took about 2 seconds to stabilize, exactly the same as in Dave's video:

https://youtu.be/tXu0lsOjvDs?t=734

I grabbed a 1.5V battery and it takes about a second for the voltage reading to stabilize in 500,000 counts mode.

nb. If you're watching that video in 2020: The backlight has been completely fixed since then (in the model with a 'S' at the end of the name - "BM857s")

[Corner]

857s seems to be using a different processor or something, it takes longer for readings to stabalise especially in 500,000 count voltage mode (usually over 5 seconds), and ohms range takes over 10 seconds or more to stabalise for small resistances (try shorting the leads and wait for it to give you a stable reading).

??

I just shorted my leads in Ohms mode and it took about 2 seconds to stabilize, exactly the same as in Dave's video:

https://youtu.be/tXu0lsOjvDs?t=734

I grabbed a 1.5V battery and it takes about a second for the voltage reading to stabilize in 500,000 counts mode.

nb. If you're watching that video in 2020: The backlight has been completely fixed since then (in the model with a 'S' at the end of the name - "BM857s")

Wow, maybe it's our batch that has this problem. My 857s serial # is 191110835. What's yours? I need to get into contact with my seller...

My backlight is fine. It's orange and it looks pretty good.

[mansaxel]

I coaxed a friend into buying a Gossen METRALINE DM41 (around 85 € in Germany). I think highly of Gossen; very safe meters, and good quality. Let's see if this one is as good.