GDS-2000A series New economic oscilloscope by GW Instek comes to market

[tinhead]

I guess you don't have to give a shit because you're full of it.

no, i'm not from US, so no chance, not full of brainshit. Jealous? or simply menstruation?
You should know me better Mark. Cool down a bit.

Then you post this ridiculous shit about those 33 seconds:

not the frakking 33 seconds exact. What i'm talking about is how he did the compare, 0% to 75% on rigol
and 0% to 100% on Instek is not fair , especially when you check the time how long it took to turn the knob on
Rigol (these 75% was slower reached) and on Instek (these 100% was faster reached).

I'm sure it was not his intention, he did it simply to get something on display while playing with knobs and talking to cam
It wasn't review nor real compare to other product. I think he simply don't like color grading (is it like that Dave?) and
was simply not satisfied with single color grading vs. big VPO announcement, that's all.

To me it looks like GDS-2000A is unable to do shading in "density"-fashion (something that velocity modulation of electron beam produces in analog oscilloscopes).

exact, this is what i meant as i said "analog-blur kind of"

[grego]

i don't see any problem with color grading implementation,

Color grading uses a lookup table from the intensity values - if the intensity values are coarse, the color grading will be as well..

...and i can clearly see that on Rigol you need to turn the knob for an hour ^^ to get from min to max).

Again, you're spouting nonsense about the Rigol which is untrue. There is rarely a time when you have to turn a knob very long on the Rigol - it uses TWO knobs (slow/fast) for any variable that has a wide range - plus it has software acceleration implemented on it's encoders - which the Instek seems to be lacking.

The instek does have acceleration on its encoders which I mentioned in my own video.

On an airplane now or I'd write more.

[tinhead]

plus it has software acceleration implemented on it's encoders - which the Instek seems to be lacking.

The instek does have acceleration on its encoders which I mentioned in my own video.
[/quote]

here we go, thank you for clarification.

[marmad]

You should know me better Mark. Cool down a bit.

I'm sorry, Thomas, but you need to take your own advice - you were the one who started interjecting 'shit' into the conversation - in writing and metaphorically. 

To me it looks like GDS-2000A is unable to do shading in "density"-fashion (something that velocity modulation of electron beam produces in analog oscilloscopes).

I believe I've figured out what the problem really is - but I'm going to post it over in the thread about Dave's video.

[Yaksaredabomb]

I guess you don't have to give a shit because you're full of it.

no, i'm not from US, so no chance, not full of brainshit. Jealous? or simply menstruation?
You should know me better Mark. Cool down a bit.

Fyi, I used the "report to moderator" link below Tinhead's post above.  "This post escalated personal attacks beyond reason.  Wasn't the first post in the series but this or the post it quotes went over the top."

I'm usually pretty impressed with the respect everyone shows each other (even with there's no basis for said respect haha) and the good taste in the language used.  Some disagree about "sh*t", and Dave uses it himself occasionally, but it's over my line for use in public.  Further, a general statement about a whole country and a dig on women has no place here - at least not on this part of the forum.

Sorry to be "up tight" but hopefully all posts involved are removed or edited and this is put in the past without further issue.


Edit: clarification

[marmad]

I guess you don't have to give a shit because you're full of it.

no, i'm not from US, so no chance, not full of brainshit. Jealous? or simply menstruation?
You should know me better Mark. Cool down a bit.

Fyi, I used the "report to moderator" link below Tinhead's post above.  "This post escalated personal attacks beyond reason.  Wasn't the first post in the series but this or the post it quotes went over the top."

I'm usually pretty impressed with the respect everyone shows each other (even with there's no basis for said respect haha) and the good taste in the language used.  Some disagree about "sh*t", and Dave uses it himself occasionally, but it's over my line for use in public.  Further, a general statement about a whole country and a dig on women has no place here - at least not on this part of the forum.

Sorry to be "up tight" but hopefully all posts involved are removed or edited and this is put in the past without further issue.


Edit: clarification

Well, it's your prerogative to report this, but you should know that Thomas and I have a personal relationship - having exchanged many private messages and emails - so speaking for myself (and I hope Thomas felt the same), I never felt the attacks were personal, but were merely 'roughhousing' (that, admittedly, we perhaps pushed too far).

[tinhead]

Further, a general statement about a whole country

in Europe we can (still) luckily speak free, about womans, Al Quida, US, what so ever ... we don't have any problems with whatsoever
skin color, abortion, jesus, asgards, islam, 09/11 magic planes or G.W.B.

I know most younger US citizens can't believe that, but really, there is different world outside US 

And btw, a general statement that chinese manufacturer producing only crap/copycat is ok? Wakeup, G.W.B. is not anymore.

and I hope Thomas felt the same

yes i do 

[Yaksaredabomb]

Well, it's your prerogative to report this, but you should know that Thomas and I have a personal relationship - having exchanged many private messages and emails - so speaking for myself (and I hope Thomas felt the same), I never felt the attacks were personal, but were merely 'roughhousing' (that, admittedly, we perhaps pushed too far).

Ah, I wasn't aware.  That's a little better I suppose.  I'm so used to the "Internet" being a place for anonymous people to attack each other in stupid, offensive ways that I assumed that's what was happening.  I expect that on the Huffington Post and Fox News webpages but was pretty taken aback to see that here on EEVblog!

in Europe we can (still) luckily speak free, about womans, Al Quida, US, what so ever ... we don't have any problems with whatsoever
skin color, abortion, jesus, asgards, islam, 09/11 magic planes or G.W.B.
....
And btw, a general statement that chinese manufacturer producing only crap/copycat is ok? Wakeup, G.W.B. is not anymore.
....

The right to speak free is fine and good - as an American I believe it in too - but sometimes one chooses to be polite and chooses not to exercise their right to be rude.  I can tolerate quite a bit of insult about the USA (and acknowledge some is deserved) but there are few enough women in electronics the way it is.  We may as well try to make them feel welcome, eh?

It's really the combo of all four - the personal attack, the language, the country, and the women that pushed me to not ignore it.  And again, on another website I might've still ignored it haha.

Anyhow, I see now you and Marmad are friends so that's good - I know how that goes haha.  Just maybe realize if you're goading each other in a public space you may raise eyebrows among those who don't know better.

[ddavidebor]

What do the dvm module?

[marmad]

Anyhow, I see now you and Marmad are friends so that's good - I know how that goes haha.  Just maybe realize if you're goading each other in a public space you may raise eyebrows among those who don't know better.

Well, Tinhead is a little nervous these days because the Rigol thread is closing on him - so he wants to smack it down 

[grego]

I haven't had a chance to watch Dave's unboxing in-toto yet but I can start to see a bit of Agilent-style bias.  Looking at it Rigol copied the Agilent path and Instek copied the Tek path.  I'm not here to say one or the other is better but there does seem to be a bit of bias since the Instek doesn't function like Dave expects it to - e.g. like the Agilent.

There are definite issues with the Instek - which I also have pointed out - and I'm going to make sure the Instek guys check out Dave's unboxing video if they haven't already and get some answers from them on various items - but one that I think is unfair is complaining about some things because they are different (e.g. the test key being a "waste of a key" for example).  I value Dave's opinion but we all need to remember it's just that - opinion.

One thing I will be grilling the US based Instek guys about though is the persistence levels since that kind of irks me a little bit and I would like a straight answer.

-G

[tinhead]

... but there are few enough women in electronics the way it is.  We may as well try to make them feel welcome, eh?

stop here ... to make it simple "menstruation is not illness or disorder and womans are not animals", so yes we can speak
about even if we never ever would know what we talking about. And every woman know how it feels in the first 2-3 days,
and many of them knows how "easy explosive" they are. So when i speak "do you have menstruation" don't see this as
"ahh a woman, haha" but simply "shit, what's wrong with you? is there something bugging you?".

Side note: actually my mother spoked like that to my sisters, heh, and to me (when i was running crazy) "go out, run a round and take a piss".
As i was young i never got why she was like that, now having (as well adult) children i know what she meant.

[Hydrawerk]

What do the dvm module?

I could not find any info anywhere. (GW Instek web, user manuals...)

[Hydrawerk]

Looking at it Rigol copied the Agilent path and Instek copied the Tek path.  (...) the Instek doesn't function like Dave expects it to - e.g. like the Agilent.

One thing I will be grilling the US based Instek guys about though is the persistence levels since that kind of irks me a little bit and I would like a straight answer.
-G

Well, Rigol is quite different from Agilent. They have their very own style. DS2000 and DSOX2000 are not similar especially with the screen layout.
And when copying Tek they should implement the DPO. Even the old and still sold expensive TDS3000 has a decent intensity gradation.

[marmad]

One thing I will be grilling the US based Instek guys about though is the persistence levels since that kind of irks me a little bit and I would like a straight answer.

Greg, I don't know if you saw this post of mine, but you could probably figure out fairly easily (using intensity or colors) how many levels of gradation the Instek is actually doing. Perhaps it varies based on some other setting (persistence?), but I can only find evidence of 16 in screenshots.

[tinhead]

What do the dvm module?

I could not find any info anywhere. (GW Instek web, user manuals...)

probably nothing else than displaying some values, however to me it looked like when enabled the DSO is going slower.

[Hydrawerk]

Ok, we know that the DPO is not a strong point of GDS-2000A. Now let's discuss it's other features. IMHO the XY mode is well implemeted and sophisticated (see manual) but I don't know what is it useful for. 
My DSOX2002A almost never goes slower.  Because it can show only 4 auto measurements and has rather small memory 50kpoints per channel. And no statistics feature. 

[tinhead]

Ok, we know that the DPO is not a strong point of GDS-2000A.

hmm, i would say it does have nice VPO colors, it peaks at 80k wfms/s, so it's ok.
Everything else need to be really compared/tested.

My DSOX2002A almost never goes slower.

buy a Tektronix and you will see how slow the UI can be when something enable. It is very hard to explain WHY is
Tektronix still worth money when this or that is not working that smooth as it should be.
Simply check the MDO video, crazy. Somehow funny to see that asia manufacturer who produce
TEK look&feel DSOs/DPOs are doing exact the same, imeplementig lag here and there ... a real bad habit.

[EEVblog]

I'm usually pretty impressed with the respect everyone shows each other (even with there's no basis for said respect haha) and the good taste in the language used.  Some disagree about "sh*t", and Dave uses it himself occasionally, but it's over my line for use in public.  Further, a general statement about a whole country and a dig on women has no place here - at least not on this part of the forum.

Guys, cool it down.
There is one very simple rule on this forum - no personal attacks.
You can use the word shit all you like. A product is shit, that soldering is shit, etc, but just don't use it in relation to a person, that then becomes a personal attack. Repeat offenders will get banned.

[EEVblog]

And Dave, what do you think about the fact that this scope has no fine horizontal or vertical control? It's strange. Most scopes do have fine settings (at Rigol and Agilent you only must push the knob). Well, only Owon doesn't have fine settings, as far as i know.

I didn't notice that. If that's the case then that's stupid, they need to fix that.

[grego]

And Dave, what do you think about the fact that this scope has no fine horizontal or vertical control? It's strange. Most scopes do have fine settings (at Rigol and Agilent you only must push the knob). Well, only Owon doesn't have fine settings, as far as i know.

I didn't notice that. If that's the case then that's stupid, they need to fix that.

Yeah - that was called out previously - even mentioned it in my video too.  Instek has confirmed it's on the firmware roadmap though - just not clear on "when" but it's there.

[marmad]

Having gone back and watched all of Instek's videos from both the GDS-2000A series - and the previous 3000 series which it's heavily based on - it's clear to me now that their VPO technology is only doing 16 levels of intensity gradation; it's strikingly obvious once you look for it.

[Hydrawerk]

they need to fix that.

Well, they should, but this expensive GDS-3000 also has no fine vertical or horizontal controls. http://www.gwinstek.com/en/product/productdetail.aspx?pid=3&mid=7&id=1290
Note that GDS-3000 is definitely not an entry level scope. It's the best scope ever manufactured by GW Instek. It was introduced in 2011. It has 5GS/s and 500MHz bandwidth. On the other hand, it has only WTF 25kpoints memory per channel. I am afraid that GW Instek scopes have always been a bit weird.

[Hypernova]

Ok, we know that the DPO is not a strong point of GDS-2000A. Now let's discuss it's other features. IMHO the XY mode is well implemeted and sophisticated (see manual) but I don't know what is it useful for. 
My DSOX2002A almost never goes slower.  Because it can show only 4 auto measurements and has rather small memory 50kpoints per channel. And no statistics feature. 

XY mode is handy when viewing phase information or any 2 waveform with xy relationship. One application is in AB encoders where you get sin cosine outputs, If your xy plot is an oval you know the read head is not positioned right.

And what do you mean no stats? isn't that in the same place as the measurement menu?

[Hydrawerk]

This statistic feature is only on DSOX3000, not on DSOX2000.