Author Topic: History of Keithley electrometers  (Read 4391 times)

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Offline Anders PeterssonTopic starter

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History of Keithley electrometers
« on: January 10, 2021, 10:59:25 am »
Having just bought a Keithley 6514, I wanted to learn how this line of specialty instruments has evolved over time. Has anyone published a summary?

Here's my stab at piecing together the history. The sources for the release dates are in parentheses; mostly the oldest print history date of the manuals. As none of this is officially confirmed, I've marked all the dates with a question mark:
602 -  1975? https://download.tek.com/manual/29111C(Model602).pdf
610B - 1964? (From the schematics in http://bama.edebris.com/download/keithley/610b/MFG_KEITHLEY_610B_BR.pdf)
614 - 1981? (srb1954 says the earliest dates in the manual is 9-8-81, and SilverSolder confirms manual copyright 1981)
616 - 1975? (https://download.tek.com/manual/28039I(Model616).pdf)
617 - 1984? (https://download.tek.com/manual/617_901_01G.pdf)
619 - 1981? http://bama.edebris.com/manuals/keithley/619/
6512 - 1994? https://doc.xdevs.com/docs/Keithley/6512/, https://doc.xdevs.com/docs/Keithley/6512/photo/
6514 - 1998??
6517 - 1994 https://xdevs.com/doc/Keithley/6517/6517_900_01D.pdf
6517A - 1996 (https://www.aps.anl.gov/files/APS-Uploads/DET/Detector-Pool/Electronics/Meters/6517A_Users_Manual.pdf)
6517B - Some time 1997-2014 (from jjoonathan comment, citing davesherman74)
 
Picoammeter
6485 / 6487 - 2002? - https://download.tek.com/manual/6487-901-01(B-Mar2011)(Ref).pdf

SMU
6430 Sub-Femtoamp Remote SourceMeter

The dates can be questionable. For example, if judging from the manual print history, 6514 came in 1998 and 6517A came in 1996. I can't believe the superior 6517 was released before 6514 so the manual print history is probably not the way to learn this. Does someone know the facts?

For reference, there's a support forum at https://forum.tek.com/viewforum.php?f=39

It's interesting to see the performance progression, for example the 1-year accuracy of the most sensitive amps range:
617: 1.6% + 66 counts (range 2 pA, resolution 100 aA)
6514: 1% + 30 counts (range 20 pA, resolution 100 aA)
6517B: 1% + 30 counts (range 20 pA, resolution 100 aA)

Others are welcome to correct my mistakes and fill in more details!

EDITS: Updated 3 times with new/corrected information.
« Last Edit: January 12, 2021, 03:35:00 pm by Anders Petersson »
 
The following users thanked this post: Mickle T., HighVoltage, Stray Electron, SilverSolder, jjoonathan, alm, AVGresponding

Offline KK6IL

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Re: History of Keithley electrometers
« Reply #1 on: January 11, 2021, 07:26:21 am »
Ive got a Keithley 616. 9th printing of the manual says Copyright 1975.
 

Offline jjoonathan

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Re: History of Keithley electrometers
« Reply #2 on: January 11, 2021, 05:19:52 pm »
Dave's DMM7510 teardown has a relevant comment:

Quote from: davesherman74
Nicely done.  Former Keithley engineer, 1997-2014, just before the model 7510 was released.  I can say that the Actel FPGA at 20:00 is indeed the integrating A/D.  I was the lead firmware engineer for the 6517B electrometer and that A/D was developed for both.  You are correct, it's a custom design, and it's a variation of a dual-slope A/D converter.  I had to chuckle at the "evil Danaher" comment, part of the reason I left.  It just wasn't the same company I started with.  I was among the last few new hires who got to meet Mr. Joseph F. Keithley, the founder.
 

Offline Anders PeterssonTopic starter

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Re: History of Keithley electrometers
« Reply #3 on: January 11, 2021, 08:28:20 pm »
Ive got a Keithley 616. 9th printing of the manual says Copyright 1975.
Dave's DMM7510 teardown has a relevant comment:
Quote from: davesherman74
Nicely done.  Former Keithley engineer, 1997-2014, just before the model 7510 was released.  [...] I was the lead firmware engineer for the 6517B electrometer [...]

Thanks to both, added to the initial post.
 

Offline srb1954

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Re: History of Keithley electrometers
« Reply #4 on: January 11, 2021, 09:13:16 pm »
I've got a 614. Looking at some of the chips used in it it I would think the design would started in the late 1970's.

The earliest date I can see on the drawings in the manual is 9-8-81 so I would guess it was released sometime late in 1981
 

Offline graybeard

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Re: History of Keithley electrometers
« Reply #5 on: January 11, 2021, 09:54:50 pm »
I met Joe Keithley in 1983.  I was a new graduate student working for Kurt Lehovec at USC.   He had brought a pre-production 617 with him for Professor Lehovec to try.
« Last Edit: January 11, 2021, 10:00:12 pm by graybeard »
 

Offline SilverSolder

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Re: History of Keithley electrometers
« Reply #6 on: January 12, 2021, 01:47:34 am »
I've got a 614. Looking at some of the chips used in it it I would think the design would started in the late 1970's.

The earliest date I can see on the drawings in the manual is 9-8-81 so I would guess it was released sometime late in 1981

I also have a 614, the manual is copyright 1981, fourth printing in July 1991 (I assume this is the newest/most recent version of the manual but I am not sure).  So at least a 10 year run for this model?

 

Offline Anders PeterssonTopic starter

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Re: History of Keithley electrometers
« Reply #7 on: January 12, 2021, 10:37:27 am »
FWIW, info from SilverSolder and srb1954 is added to the initial post.
The post from graybeard confirms existing info.
There's some long experience on this forum!
 

Offline MegaVolt

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Re: History of Keithley electrometers
« Reply #8 on: January 12, 2021, 10:41:45 am »
Perhaps it makes sense to add models:
6430, 6485, 6487
 

Offline HighVoltage

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Re: History of Keithley electrometers
« Reply #9 on: January 12, 2021, 01:51:26 pm »
Interesting thread!
Subscribed!

Maybe you can add the official original list price next to the instruments.
As far as I know, the 6517B is still in production with a list price of €9,200  in Europe.

« Last Edit: January 12, 2021, 01:53:03 pm by HighVoltage »
There are 3 kinds of people in this world, those who can count and those who can not.
 

Offline Anders PeterssonTopic starter

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Re: History of Keithley electrometers
« Reply #10 on: January 12, 2021, 03:31:08 pm »
Maybe you can add the official original list price next to the instruments.
As far as I know, the 6517B is still in production with a list price of €9,200  in Europe.

I can make the post into a HTML table with various info. But I don't know any of this myself so please post any info you have or can dig up that is suitable for a compact table. 6517B (and apparently 6514) are in production so those list prices are easy, but I'd like to see if we know pricing for some older models before adding a column for it.

I guess I can add a section for SMUs and picoammeter too.
 

Offline KeepItSimpleStupid

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Re: History of Keithley electrometers
« Reply #11 on: January 20, 2021, 05:37:50 pm »
I think the 236, 237 and 238 series SMU's should be added.

There's the stand-alone pico-ammeters (Keithley 480, 485)
There may have been some Analog Pico ammeters

The 619 was wierd.   The analog out was wierd.

I discovered a bug in the 617 because it was destroying our devices when it switched ranges,  There were 200 V spikes at the inputs.  Keithley was really surprised when they confirmed it and immediately created an external solution that only worked in measure voltage mode until they developed a fix for the instruments.

That wasn't the case with Apple.  I found that sending an email with ATH$ in the body of the email would hang-up the modem in the iBook every time over dial-up.  They didn't have the courtesy to test it.  I suffered for at least 9 months until they fixed it.

1980+  Fluke and HP and Tektronix were Kings.

 

Offline HighVoltage

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Re: History of Keithley electrometers
« Reply #12 on: January 24, 2021, 04:18:33 pm »

I discovered a bug in the 617 because it was destroying our devices when it switched ranges,  There were 200 V spikes at the inputs.  Keithley was really surprised when they confirmed it and immediately created an external solution that only worked in measure voltage mode until they developed a fix for the instruments.
Interesting!
When was this, if you remember?
Must have been the first 617 delivered because I never saw this bug on any 617
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Offline KeepItSimpleStupid

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Re: History of Keithley electrometers
« Reply #13 on: July 03, 2021, 12:08:08 pm »
I know the instrument was recently introduced and it really wasn't good enough for what we wanted for two reasons.

1) The max current of 20 mA
2) the voltage resolution

1) We really would have liked 100 mA.  There was also a 100 ohm protection resistor that I quickly blew. That was a surprise too.
2) Ended up using a Keithley 230 voltage source as well, BUT I ended up using the sense leads of the 230 to compensate for the resistor.

The application was research grade solar cells, so 5V could possibly damage them.  The system was mainly purchased to do I-V-T measurements to get activation energy and conductivity of thin films of silicon.

 


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