Fluke fieldsense contactless voltmeter

[ModemHead]

Mike's Tool Shed ripped the cover off the magic battery door.  The most visible thing is a daisy chain of five components, possibly resistors.

The reveal starts at 8:50.
https://youtu.be/vJ2gxoY9RUU?t=530

[joeqsmith]

Excellent! It appears well sealed.  I think with that bit of info, maybe I can just try some less destructive tests on mine. ...  Like that will ever happen...

It was worth the time to watch the whole video.    I wish he had measured that sticker.   

[Electro Detective]

Thanks to "Mike's Tool Shed"      for the quick...  -TEAR-  down ?!   

Too bad he didn't have a hair dryer handy to pry the sticker off slowly, and stand a chance of putting the sucker back


Putting those components in sticker form on the back of the tester is a no no, what were they smoking at Fluke HQ ?   


Didn't the designers think about the product rolling around in the tool box rubbing up against sharp ended tools,
left out in a hot sun in between tests and softening the silly sticker thingie, hot+cold weather shrinkage and slippage,
kids, cat or dog or unpaid starving tradie munching on it > kiss the series component chain goodbye or worse still... intermittent operation   
the glue going weird and reacting with the silly chain of components,
battery leakage issues...     
plus a zillion other 'won't happen but will'  Murphy Powered scenarios I won't bore members with

i.e. all that 'breakable' stuff should be inside the meter and only the metal button exposed, with a small shutter to sheath it if you don't want to use it***

Some fat Royalty cheques*** would be most welcome at this point        


Anyway, I can foresee a LOT of dummies will inadvertantly use this Tee 6 as a go / no go tester come 'prove dead' device and set themselves up for a good zapping 


AvE may have got the meter usage 'confused' perhaps, but his conclusion of 'dangerous' and 'pos' still holds   

[threephase]

@electro detective,
Surely any item of electrical test apparatus that is damaged, mistreated or used incorrectly becomes unsafe, so why should the T6 be any different?

The same goes for absence of voltage checks, if they are carried out in an inappropriate manner, then it can give rise to danger irrespective of the apparatus used for the procedure.

The T6 isn't any different, it is just another tool that can be used to aid with testing, and there are loss of combined neutral/earth faults when a capacitive non-contact tester will detect live voltages that a two probe test would not detect.

Kind regards

[Electro Detective]

@electro detective,
Surely any item of electrical test apparatus that is damaged, mistreated or used incorrectly becomes unsafe, so why should the T6 be any different?

The same goes for absence of voltage checks, if they are carried out in an inappropriate manner, then it can give rise to danger irrespective of the apparatus used for the procedure.

The T6 isn't any different, it is just another tool that can be used to aid with testing, and there are loss of combined neutral/earth faults when a capacitive non-contact tester will detect live voltages that a two probe test would not detect.

Kind regards

Many of us know that and act accordingly with test gear,

but the average prodder in a hurry to get the check routine out of the way will rely on a 'Fluke' product and may/will cop a nice surprise


Housing components in a sticker on the back of a professional CAT testing unit with a fragile ribbon is a no no

Ribbons operate ok inside closed jaw meters to mate the jaw output to the electronics, but I wouldn't trust one inside a sticker on a tool that will get a lot of use and abuse and gripped with gloves like a baton


FWIW, A decent contactless voltage stick, a 'prove dead' Duspol, and optional closed jaw clamp meter and DMM will ensure that bad hair days and visits to the morgue will happen a lot less,
than relying just on a T6 and fiddling about with the conductor sweet spot  >  (_?_)  <   roulette table style...   

If you're in the lab or mancave with time on your hands rooting about, and like a bit of a readings punt/gamble, and not working alone,
hey, a T6 may fit the bill 

Which brings the question, how well and reliably will the T6 read live voltage as compared to a non contact cheapie on a earth/neutral failure or reversal wired DIYer dumbassery?


Come on, it's looking more like an overpriced beta toy some R+D millennial hipsters    whipped up in a hurry to impress the Fluke bean counters   

[mikeselectricstuff]

@electro detective,
Surely any item of electrical test apparatus that is damaged, mistreated or used incorrectly becomes unsafe, so why should the T6 be any different?

Equipment should be designed such that forseeable damage does not make it unsafe.

[orion242]

Which brings the question, how well and reliably will the T6 read live voltage as compared to a non contact cheapie on a earth/neutral failure or reversal wired DIYer dumbassery

Ditto.  Its priced as a pro tool, but the contact free looks pretty dicky.  I'm not guessing on circuits with high fault currents.  I'm not pulling on conductors to hit the sweet spot either.

Would trust as much as the fluke 2AC.  Quick check tool that shouldn't be relied on, but a quick sanity check when you think its all dead or if its live at a glance when troubleshooting.  Whats the 2AC cost?  How picky is it in comparison?

Typically I know what voltage I'm looking for when using these non-contact devices.  Its a quick yes / no, not is the voltage within +/- 10%.

[orion242]

And arc flash safety is becoming a real thing.

In the US OSHA requires suiting up on live gear and the fault limits are pretty low.  Open live gear is suit up time on all but the smallest stuff, non-contact or bareback.  If your going to suit up for live measurements, are you really going to piss around with this thing??  Does it become a game of how long can we stretch out one measurement?

[threephase]

Many of us know that and act accordingly with test gear,

but the average prodder in a hurry to get the check routine out of the way will rely on a 'Fluke' product and may/will cop a nice surprise


Housing components in a sticker on the back of a professional CAT testing unit with a fragile ribbon is a no no

Ribbons operate ok inside closed jaw meters to mate the jaw output to the electronics, but I wouldn't trust one inside a sticker on a tool that will get a lot of use and abuse and gripped with gloves like a baton


FWIW, A decent contactless voltage stick, a 'prove dead' Duspol, and optional closed jaw clamp meter and DMM will ensure that bad hair days and visits to the morgue will happen a lot less,
than relying just on a T6 and fiddling about with the conductor sweet spot  >  (_?_)  <   roulette table style...   

If you're in the lab or mancave with time on your hands rooting about, and like a bit of a readings punt/gamble, and not working alone,
hey, a T6 may fit the bill 

Which brings the question, how well and reliably will the T6 read live voltage as compared to a non contact cheapie on a earth/neutral failure or reversal wired DIYer dumbassery?


Come on, it's looking more like an overpriced beta toy some R+D millennial hipsters    whipped up in a hurry to impress the Fluke bean counters   

Well yes, someone may well use the T6 as a shortcut for an absence of voltage test, but electricians know that non-contact testing should only be used as a supplement for 2 pole testing when checking for absence of voltage - so whose fault it is, if they use the T6 in this manner? Fluke for creating and manufacturing it, or the electrician concerned for not following appropriate procedures.

I have watched a number of the videos from different sources about the T6 now, yes some people seem to be struggling with its use. Other seems to get on with it ok. As far as Fluke go, I haven't seen them promote the T6 for testing for dead.

They do make a proving unit for it, I got one to play with a while back to see if I could test non-contact sticks with it. It did work ok, but it flattened the battery pack in around 5 weeks as it switches down to a 4mA current draw when not in use. I found this out after a weeks holiday when I came back to use it and it wouldn't work, I didn't carry on with my job. I stopped, found out what was wrong with the proving unit and fixed it before proceeding.

At the end of the day, it is the choice of the sparks working as to how they work on the apparatus and carry out the tests.

Is the T6 a gimmick? you could well be right, but quite often new technology starts out a expensive and gimmicky, but bringing it to market either improves it or kills it off. I guess time will tell which one it will be.

Kind regards

[threephase]

@electro detective,
Surely any item of electrical test apparatus that is damaged, mistreated or used incorrectly becomes unsafe, so why should the T6 be any different?

Equipment should be designed such that forseeable damage does not make it unsafe.

It is, Fluke will sell you a case to protect the meter, all be it at an extra cost. We all know that electronic testers can be damaged if we choose to chuck them into our toolboxes with all the spanners, screwdrivers and other goodies. Our choice.

I doubt that label on the back is any more susceptible to damage than the leads are themselves.

You may well have an argument in that people may not realise the significance of damage to the label, but then again Fluke do sell a proving unit for it. At an extra cost of course.

Kind regards

[threephase]

Which brings the question, how well and reliably will the T6 read live voltage as compared to a non contact cheapie on a earth/neutral failure or reversal wired DIYer dumbassery

Ditto.  Its priced as a pro tool, but the contact free looks pretty dicky.  I'm not guessing on circuits with high fault currents.  I'm not pulling on conductors to hit the sweet spot either.

Would trust as much as the fluke 2AC.  Quick check tool that shouldn't be relied on, but a quick sanity check when you think its all dead or if its live at a glance when troubleshooting.  Whats the 2AC cost?  How picky is it in comparison?

Typically I know what voltage I'm looking for when using these non-contact devices.  Its a quick yes / no, not is the voltage within +/- 10%.

I understand where you are coming from. I too am not to worried about specific voltage values and use an LED voltage tester for initial tests. Other sparks I have known would prefer to see actual numbers. Each to their own.

Some seem to have more success with the T6 than others, I haven't used one myself, so I cannot say. I have a fairly limited experience on electrics so I couldn't say whether the device is useful or not, it might be to some for certain applications. Personally, I can't think of any where I wouldn't be able to get to the contacts and use a DMM to get better accuracy.

Kind regards

[Fungus]

Personally, I can't think of any where I wouldn't be able to get to the contacts and use a DMM to get better accuracy.

I think the idea is to avoid getting to the contacts.

[EEVblog]

Mike's Tool Shed ripped the cover off the magic battery door.  The most visible thing is a daisy chain of five components, possibly resistors.

The reveal starts at 8:50.
https://youtu.be/vJ2gxoY9RUU?t=530

That could be multiple caps in series. I wouldn't expect a membrane cap like that to be particularly high voltage, so series makes sense from a voltage rating and redundancy viewpoint.
They have even routed out a slot to prevent creepage breakdown.
Regardless of how crappy anyone thinks the idea is in practice, a lot of thought has gone into the design of this bit.

[joeqsmith]

Mike's Tool Shed ripped the cover off the magic battery door.  The most visible thing is a daisy chain of five components, possibly resistors.

The reveal starts at 8:50.
...

That could be multiple caps in series. I wouldn't expect a membrane cap like that to be particularly high voltage, so series makes sense from a voltage rating and redundancy viewpoint.
They have even routed out a slot to prevent creepage breakdown.
Regardless of how crappy anyone thinks the idea is in practice, a lot of thought has gone into the design of this bit.

I suspect the slots for the plastic are to protect that contact surface from mechanical damage more than anything.   

[SG-1]

I am overly concerned with the performance of the T6, since it is a first generation device of this type.  How many generations of refinement are in our modern instruments ?  From using a compass to detect an electric current to the Flukes 289.  Over a hundred years of improvements have driven the development of our modern instruments. 

Is the T6 perfect ? No.
The next generation of field sense will be better.

[Cerebus]

Presumably you meant:

I am not overly concerned with the performance of the T6, since it is a first generation device of this type.

[orion242]

Thanks for the videos Joe.  Looks like the contact free works better than shown in other videos.  Fairly impressed with the low voltage accuracy.

Still think its a bit of a novelty.  Personally, I'm not putting myself in the measurement circuit with direct contact on the other end on anything with high fault currents.  I have also seen what can happen moving conductors near terminations.

[SG-1]

Thanks Cerebus, you can almost read my mind as well as the wife can !

[joeqsmith]

Thanks for the videos Joe.  Looks like the contact free works better than shown in other videos.  Fairly impressed with the low voltage accuracy.

Still think its a bit of a novelty.  Personally, I'm not putting myself in the measurement circuit with direct contact on the other end on anything with high fault currents.  I have also seen what can happen moving conductors near terminations.

No problem.  Glad I could help out.     

I don't think any electricians training would allow them to work without proper PPE for the environment they are working in.   

[Cerebus]

I don't think any electricians training would allow them to work without proper PPE for the environment they are working in.   

Then you'd be horrified by the average jobbing electrician who only works on 'low' voltage ('low' here in the peculiar electrical supply sense of below 1000V). I've worked on-site with a lot of them and the most PPE I've seen that type use, on a day-to-day basis, is an insulated screwdriver and possibly a hard hat and safety boots (and the later two only on sites that insisted on it). Totally different story if they work anywhere that's big enough to have a safety officer roaming around, but working on their own?

[BillB]

I don't think any electricians training would allow them to work without proper PPE for the environment they are working in.   

Then you'd be horrified by the average jobbing electrician who only works on 'low' voltage ('low' here in the peculiar electrical supply sense of below 1000V). I've worked on-site with a lot of them and the most PPE I've seen that type use, on a day-to-day basis, is an insulated screwdriver and possibly a hard hat and safety boots (and the later two only on sites that insisted on it). Totally different story if they work anywhere that's big enough to have a safety officer roaming around, but working on their own?

Definitely true.  I remember long, long ago as an intern working with tech's who considered 120VAC low voltage and wouldn't even turn off the power while working on equipment.  They wouldn't even consider turning stuff off unless it was 277VAC+.  I struggled to reconcile watching these grizzled techs with a notion that I was also taught early on:

"There are old technicians and there are bold technicians, but there are no old, bold technicians."

[orion242]

I've worked on-site with a lot of them and the most PPE I've seen that type use, on a day-to-day basis, is an insulated screwdriver and possibly a hard hat and safety boots (and the later two only on sites that insisted on it).

That's what I see for the most part as well. If they are caught by OSHA, they are facing some pretty steep fines.  Most if not all are required to have arc fault training, so most know whats required.  Some sites will require it and enforce it, but that's the minority of cases.  Even with the PPE, the smarter ones don't try and test the PPE's rating with stupidity.

[Cerebus]

Definitely true.  I remember long, long ago as an intern working with tech's who considered 120VAC low voltage...

Not to detract from what you said, I was just referring to the standard classifications used in the electric supply industry. They formally classify everything  below 1kVac (1.5kVdc) as 'low voltage', which is perhaps reasonable when you regard 1-35 kVac as 'medium voltage', 35-230kVac as 'high voltage'  and above that as 'extra-high voltage'.

When it's on my or your bench 'low voltage' for a 1kVdc supply doesn't cut the mustard in terms of suggesting the caution required (particularly in my mind today as today's post delivered a 12V to 1kVdc DC to DC converter).

[joeqsmith]

I don't think any electricians training would allow them to work without proper PPE for the environment they are working in.   

Then you'd be horrified by the average jobbing electrician who only works on 'low' voltage ('low' here in the peculiar electrical supply sense of below 1000V). I've worked on-site with a lot of them and the most PPE I've seen that type use, on a day-to-day basis, is an insulated screwdriver and possibly a hard hat and safety boots (and the later two only on sites that insisted on it). Totally different story if they work anywhere that's big enough to have a safety officer roaming around, but working on their own?

From the cover of the manual:

"Comply with local and national safety codes.  Use personal protective equipment (approved rubber gloves, face protection, and flame-resistant clothes) to prevent shock and arc blast injury where hazardous live conductors are exposed"

Obviously, there are cases where the non-contact feature should not be used.   From what I have found, they really don't attempt to nail it down beyond this.