Should I replace my Siglent SDS2014X Plus oscilloscope with SDS3014X HD?

[bdunham7]

I'm not a professional. 12-bit high resolution will help me capture fine details. Since I'm not an pro, I prefer not to be misled by the values I see on my measuring device. After all, it's just a "tool" to assist me. I am just looking for better "tool". I have many reason, but isn't only 12 bits reason enough?

Maybe, maybe not.  How often do you use the 10-bit mode on your present SDS2000X+?  And when you compare it to the 8-bit mode, do you think "gee that's a lot better but I'd be willing to pay a lot more for further improvement"?  If so, 12-bit is definitely for you.  If you don't use the 10-bit mode or can't tell the difference clearly enough to matter, then 12-bit won't change your life.  For me, given the limited resolution of the screen itself (which is the same on both scopes) the place where more bits matters enough for me to care is when I'm using the vertical zoom feature to look at something.  Do you use vertical zoom?

I wish I were rich, but I'm not. Nevertheless, I haven't seen anyone become richer or poorer by saving on the price difference we're talking about here.

Perhaps on one instrument, but if you apply that same thinking to the rest of your bench and end up with a few more digits on your DMM, better specs on your AWG, etc etc you might end up with a substantial "investment". 

[Martin72]

I swear the SDS2000X+ has gated measurements. I've used the feature before, at least when the scope is stopped.  If I'm thinking of the right thing, it lets you set the start and end times of an interval over which the measurement is computed.

It gets even better:
For example, all lecroy scopes have gated meauserements.
You set one point, then the other and measurements are taken in between - awesome.
Then the old ones had a feature that is no longer available on the Lecroy - but the SDS2000Xplus has it, and that's why we have 6 of them...
As mentioned, you can create a gate and measure in it, old Lecroys and the Siglents also allow you to move this defined gate anywhere on the screen...
Very useful for (alternating current) load steps...
We use it to measure the recovery time, i.e. when the voltage returns to the tolerated range.
Therefore:
No movable measurement gate, no scope for us.

[Martin72]

My bet is that the 100MHz model will disappear.
Batterfly had it heavily discounted, and now it is not listed at all.

That's right, it's gone and the prices for the 200 and 350Mhz versions have dropped significantly again...
so at Batterfly, at Batronix or Welectron you don't see anything.
Not yet, I suppose.
(picture: all prices without VAT)
(Batronix and Welectron still have the 2104X HD on stock, maybe it´s worth asking for a "very special offer"...)

[Sercan]

Maybe, maybe not.  How often do you use the 10-bit mode on your present SDS2000X+?  And when you compare it to the 8-bit mode, do you think "gee that's a lot better but I'd be willing to pay a lot more for further improvement"?  If so, 12-bit is definitely for you.  If you don't use the 10-bit mode or can't tell the difference clearly enough to matter, then 12-bit won't change your life.  For me, given the limited resolution of the screen itself (which is the same on both scopes) the place where more bits matters enough for me to care is when I'm using the vertical zoom feature to look at something.  Do you use vertical zoom?

12-bit oscilloscope offers higher resolution, a wider dynamic range, better signal fidelity, and a lower noise floor compared to an 8-bit oscilloscope. These advantages make it suitable for applications requiring precise measurements and analysis of signals, especially when dealing with small signal amplitudes or capturing fine details in waveforms. However, I agree with you that for many general-purpose applications, an 8-bit oscilloscope may suffice and be more cost-effective.

Perhaps on one instrument, but if you apply that same thinking to the rest of your bench and end up with a few more digits on your DMM, better specs on your AWG, etc etc you might end up with a substantial "investment".

I don't want to focus solely on the financial aspect, but I believe it's important to mention that the device in question would cost me around $1K.

To elaborate, I have already sold my Siglent SDS1104X-E for $500 and finalized a $200 deal with a buyer for my Tektronix 2430A, which has only one working channel. Additionally, I intend to sell my SDS2104X Plus for minimum $1,250. Altogether, create total budget of around $2K from these three devices. With the potential tax advantages, I would only need to pay around $1,000...

Perhaps the question becomes clearer: "Is it worth investing $1,000 for the new features?"

[Sercan]

I have identified two important points so far:

Firstly, device is new, so, I may encounter potential hardware issues.

Secondly, I will be deprived of features like LA, which I frequently use, as I cannot hack it for now. This is significant to me because software options are beyond my budget...

[tautech]

Or get the SDS804X HD as a stopgap until it's clearer to you if a 2k or 3k HD will be worth it to you.

[Sercan]

Or get the SDS804X HD as a stopgap until it's clearer to you if a 2k or 3k HD will be worth it to you.

I have SPL2016. This only fit SDS3000X HD, not for SDS800X HD or SDS1000X HD.

[slugrustle]

I have identified two important points so far:

Firstly, device is new, so, I may encounter potential hardware issues.

Secondly, I will be deprived of features like LA, which I frequently use, as I cannot hack it for now. This is significant to me because software options are beyond my budget...

As an electronics hardware engineer, I would like to point out that the issues on new devices are often firmware issues rather than hardware issues

[bte]

I don't want to focus solely on the financial aspect, but I believe it's important to mention that the device in question would cost me around $1K.

To elaborate, I have already sold my Siglent SDS1104X-E for $500 and finalized a $200 deal with a buyer for my Tektronix 2430A, which has only one working channel. Additionally, I intend to sell my SDS2104X Plus for minimum $1,250. Altogether, create total budget of around $2K from these three devices. With the potential tax advantages, I would only need to pay around $1,000...

Perhaps the question becomes clearer: "Is it worth investing $1,000 for the new features?"

Completely out of curiosity: I couldn't see a SDS3014X HD model among the recent offerings, only SDS3104X HD. If so, it has a retail price of 6k EUR before tax from various vendors in EU. What sort of a potential tax advantage brings the price down from 6k EUR to $1k with $2k in hand?

The cheapest offering in this category is SDS3034X HD and it retails for 3.4k EUR before tax (EU retailers price; probably will be much more expensive in Turkey due to various taxes), so I am not sure how the calculation works out to $1k final expenditure in this case, either.

[Antonio90]

Or get the SDS804X HD as a stopgap until it's clearer to you if a 2k or 3k HD will be worth it to you.

I have SPL2016. This only fit SDS3000X HD, not for SDS800X HD or SDS1000X HD.

Yes, but you could keep the 2000X+ and still have high bandwidth and a higher class instrument, combined with 12 bits at lower frequencies.

In any case, and until prices are updated one way or another, the 2354X-HD is now more expensive in most stores than the 3034X-HD. If you were to upgrade to the 2000X-HD, an e-mail to the retailers would be in order to check for a discount over the list price. Right now batterfly prices are way lower than any other retailer in the EU (for the 2000X-HD). The 2204 is €400 lower than the 2104 at Batronix or Welectron.

[Antonio90]

In any case, and until prices are updated one way or another, the 2354X-HD is now more expensive in most stores than the 3034X-HD. If you were to upgrade to the 2000X-HD, an e-mail to the retailers would be in order to check for a discount over the list price. Right now batterfly prices are way lower than any other retailer in the EU (for the 2000X-HD). The 2204 is €400 lower than the 2104 at Batronix or Welectron.

The rollout of the new HD scopes is a bit of a bumpy ride. I understand that Siglent may face supply issues beyond their control, hence struggles to supply the new scopes to all their distributors. But why cant they get the distributors to roll out the new prices consistently?!

Might it be the case that Batronix and Welectron are still sitting on stock of the 2000X HD which they bought at the higher prices -- while Batterfly managed to sell these units off in time, and is already selling a new batch bought from Siglent at the lower price? I hope not; it would seem like a bad idea if Siglent "punishes" distributors for keeping local stock. Hopefully distributors would receive a credit towards the difference between the higher price they paid and the new price?

Maybe it isn't Siglent's doing, and the dealers are trying to get the most revenue possible out of their stock, taking advantage of the fact that new devices might not be available for a couple months still.
But yeah, either that, or Batterfly is being extremely agressive price-wise.

[newbrain]

But yeah, either that, or Batterfly is being extremely agressive price-wise.

Batterfly has very decent prices on average, and free shipping above a certain amount (IIRC, 100€ for Italy, 400 € rest of EU)
I have enjoyed really good customer service from them.

Another shop to check is EleShop. They have a 'lowest price guarantee' and, by recent (last week) personl experience, they'll make good on that no question asked (some preconditions apply).
 It was, in fact, wrt to a Batterfly price, which did not have stock available.

No affiliation with either, just a happy customer.

[tautech]

Maybe it isn't Siglent's doing, and the dealers are trying to get the most revenue possible out of their stock, taking advantage of the fact that new devices might not be available for a couple months still.
But yeah, either that, or Batterfly is being extremely aggressive price-wise.

The reality is price reductions are for new stock not stock on hand previously sourced at higher prices.

[Antonio90]

Maybe it isn't Siglent's doing, and the dealers are trying to get the most revenue possible out of their stock, taking advantage of the fact that new devices might not be available for a couple months still.
But yeah, either that, or Batterfly is being extremely aggressive price-wise.

The reality is price reductions are for new stock not stock on hand previously sourced at higher prices.

Then it probably was agressive pricing. They had quite a few 2000X-HD in stock on february, I doubt it was all new.

[tautech]

The reality is price reductions are for new stock not stock on hand previously sourced at higher prices.

Ouch, that can get nasty for the dealers then. So what do you do when you are still sitting on old, expensive inventory when Siglent lowers the prices? Hope to find some not-so-well-informed buyers at the old price, or accept a loss and sell at the new lower price, or sit on that inventory forever since customers buy for the lower price elsewhere.

Batterfly is out of stock on the whole SDS2000X HD series, so they can happily offer the new reduced price. Batronix has most models in stock, presumably still bought at the old price -- tough luck for them, it seems?

You get wise not to order too much stock.....

[Antonio90]

The reality is price reductions are for new stock not stock on hand previously sourced at higher prices.

Ouch, that can get nasty for the dealers then. So what do you do when you are still sitting on old, expensive inventory when Siglent lowers the prices? Hope to find some not-so-well-informed buyers at the old price, or accept a loss and sell at the new lower price, or sit on that inventory forever since customers buy for the lower price elsewhere.

Batterfly is out of stock on the whole SDS2000X HD series, so they can happily offer the new reduced price. Batronix has most models in stock, presumably still bought at the old price -- tough luck for them, it seems?

I suppose they put the new price before anyone else, to liquidate old stock while getting a few more customers to backorder with the reduced MSRP and cut the losses.
I don't think it's as "risky" a play as it could seem, as almost everyone checks pricing online on various vendors, or buys big from the manufacturer itself.

[Construct]

Regardless of the price, what benefits do you think I would gain from switching to the SDS3104X HD? I'm curious about your valuable opinions.

A higher bandwidth scope won't provide any benefit if you plan on using standard passive probes. You can find passive probes rated up to 500MHz, but the capacitive loading at those frequencies will be too high for practical measurements above 100-200MHz.

Jumping to a 12-bit, low-noise oscilloscope produces noticeably cleaner measurements. It's hard to go back once you've been using a 12-bit scope. However, you don't need to jump all the way to the SDS3xxx series for 12-bit.

If you really want to make the most of the more expensive, high bandwidth scopes, you really need to consider probing accessories as well. Siglent has some interesting active probes starting at $1K, which is relatively inexpensive. However, I wouldn't recommend buying probes (or even a high BW oscilloscope) until you encounter a project that requires high frequency and expensive probing. It's too easy to guess wrong about future needs and find yourself in a situation where you need to sell it all and upgrade again to a system that matches your actual needs.