Fluke 189 with leaking surface mount supercap (also Fluke 287, Fluke 289)

[ModemHead]

Here's what my 189 looks like.  It's a dry brown fuzz on this one.

[M. András]

fffs i will take mine apart in this weekend. if its leaking can i contact the distributor to get them replace the thing within warranty? as itsd will seriously decrase the life of the instrument

[uoficowboy]

Here's what my 189 looks like.  It's a dry brown fuzz on this one.

That's pretty much identical to the two 189s I looked at today.

Is there any consensus on if these parts need to be replaced or not? Any means of testing them? I would be very sad if my 189 were to die!

[alm]

The note from the datasheet suggests that this behavior is normal for this particular cap and might not indicate its imminent failure.

I just checked a fairly early 189 and it had a different surface mount supercap (with plastic sleeve) that did not show any signs of leakage.

[tsmith35]

fffs i will take mine apart in this weekend. if its leaking can i contact the distributor to get them replace the thing within warranty? as itsd will seriously decrase the life of the instrument

From the Fluke warranty page:

Industrial Products Limited Lifetime Warranty
Lifetime is defined as seven years after Fluke discontinues manufacturing the product, but the warranty period shall be at least ten years from date of purchase. *(Lifetime Warranty applies to products manufactured after October 1996). The warranty does not cover manuals, fuses, disposable batteries, damage from neglect, misuse, contamination, alteration, accident or abnormal conditions of operation or handling, including failures caused by use outside of the product's specifications, or normal wear and tear of mechanical components. This warranty covers the original purchaser only and is not transferable. This warranty covers the LCD for 10 years only (state-of-the-art for LCDs). To establish original ownership proof of purchase is required (20, 70, 80, 170, 180 and 280 models).

[dr.diesel]

My 289's cap was completely shorted.  I'd kinda been wondering why new batteries only lasted 2-3 days before going ka-put   , however not enough to actually spend the time tearing it down!  I've modified mine with a 2.1mm DC jack, it's been powered by a power supply for years sitting on the bench.

Just ordered a new cap from Digikey for $2.50, for 5 minutes of down time I'll be back in business!

[M. András]

i know what the warranty states but what is that damn component falls under?

[alm]

I've modified mine with a 2.1mm DC jack, it's been powered by a power supply for years sitting on the bench.

Just ordered a new cap from Digikey for $2.50, for 5 minutes of down time I'll be back in business!

Just note that this defeats most of the meter's protection circuit unless the barrel plug, lead and power supply offer the same isolation as the DMM. If you connect the common lead to mains, the barrel connector and power supply will probably also be at mains potential, something common DC barrel connectors and wiring are not designed to protect from. Not a big deal for separated extra-low voltage (eg. Arduino) circuits, as long as your aware and clearly indicate on the meter that the CAT IV 600 V (or even a CAT I 300 V) rating no longer applies.

[dr.diesel]

Wait a minute, there's life above 3.3v?     

All kidding aside, absolutely, this is on my personal bench, otherwise I wouldn't allow it.

[alm]

Some voltage references go all the way up to 7V! But fair enough, you have to get really creative to get shocked by low voltage DC. I would probably affix a label to the front notifying anyone picking it up of the mod, but I can certainly see the convenience of a wall-powered 289.

[tsmith35]

i know what the warranty states but what is that damn component falls under?

It's not a battery, so it seems pretty straightforward.

[BravoV]

My 289's cap was completely shorted.  I'd kinda been wondering why new batteries only lasted 2-3 days before going ka-put   , however not enough to actually spend the time tearing it down!  I've modified mine with a 2.1mm DC jack, it's been powered by a power supply for years sitting on the bench.

Great to know this, thanks for sharing. For sure I will be watching the batteries consumption rate, if its getting significantly faster than it used to.

Other thought, with that shorted cap, just curious if that heated up cap will increase the ambient temp inside the DMM significantly ? Cause the DMM case is quite thick and made from 2 layers of different plastics which is quite effective to seal out the heat from inside. 

Assuming we're not going to chase for warranty from Fluke, on the cap replacement, is there any better alternative brand/type of supercap that won't leak and has much more longer life than just <5  years ? Size wise for the replacement cap is not that critical since there should be enough space.

[dr.diesel]

Great to know this, thanks for sharing. For sure I will be watching the batteries consumption rate, if its getting significantly faster than it used to.

Other thought, with that shorted cap, just curious if that heated up cap will increase the ambient temp inside the DMM significantly ? Cause the DMM case is quite thick and made from 2 layers of different plastics which is quite effective to seal out the heat from inside. 

Assuming we're not going to chase for warranty from Fluke, on the cap replacement, is there any better alternative brand/type of supercap that won't leak and has much more longer life than just <5  years ? Size wise for the replacement cap is not that critical since there should be enough space.

Mine had a phantom draw, I knew it was there just never bothered to find it cause it was bench powered, easy enough to test by measuring standby current.

Since it's only the settings and date/time that is stored by the supercap, reliability really isn't that much of a concern, just replace the cap if and when it goes bad, especially since you can buy like and kind for about $2.50.

Your correct though, there is plenty of room if you'd like to retrofit a higher voltage piece, hopefully with longer life.

[BravoV]

Since it's only the settings and date/time that is stored by the supercap, reliability really isn't that much of a concern

Agree, its just I don't like the idea of knowing that the cap is keep growing nasty brown goo, that may leak or burst it's liquid once the container is weakened enough by corrosion caused by that brown stuff. 

Possible candidates are CDE Cornell Dubilier type ELDR ultracap (Datasheet) which highlights the long-life feature than ordinary ultracap.



Same capacitance as original cap at 0.2F 3.6V, and cost $2.79 a pop at Digikey -> EDLRD224H3R6C, has two terminals styles like above pics, just abit bigger than original cap and not much, and I think its still manageable like by bending it's legs to fit in the solder pads.

[true]

I've repaired a couple of these (that otherwise wouldn't turn on) with 22uF MLCCs. As long as batteries are in the unit it works fine...I think they may lose settings during battery change but it's been a while since I've had to change them, maybe I should check?

[dr.diesel]

Same capacitance as original cap at 0.2F 3.6V, and cost $2.79 a pop at Digikey -> EDLRD224H3R6C, has two terminals styles like above pics, just abit bigger than original cap and not much, and I think its still manageable like by bending it's legs to fit in the solder pads.

Yup, this one should fit no problem, and probably last longer like you said.   

[dr.diesel]

For anyone wondering, Digikey part#P11068CT-ND is a perfect fit for the original on the 289.

[BravoV]

For anyone wondering, Digikey part#P11068CT-ND is a perfect fit for the original on the 289.

Did you purchase that ? Digikey currently don't carry it anymore for cut tape, and also I can't find the datasheet at Panasonic for this product type, another discontinued series ? 

[dr.diesel]

For anyone wondering, Digikey part#P11068CT-ND is a perfect fit for the original on the 289.

Did you purchase that ? Digikey currently don't carry it anymore for cut tape, and also I can't find the datasheet at Panasonic for this product type, another discontinued series ? 

Sure did:

[BravoV]

Damn, I guess I was blind when I browse the Digikey. 

Btw, that Panasonic cap doesn't have any datasheet, and at the DK page its rated with lifetime @ Temp. 500 Hrs @ 60°C.

Just fyi, at the CDE type ELDR ultracap I pointed previously, after the exposure of 2000 h at +85 ºC ,still capable of maintaining ±30% of the initial measured value.

[dr.diesel]

Just fyi, at the CDE type ELDR ultracap I pointed previously, after the exposure of 2000 h at +85 ºC ,still capable of maintaining ±30% of the initial measured value.

You are correct Sir, I should have put forth a bit more research into retrofitting a better cap, time got the best of me.

I'll be doing this exercise again in the future.   

[smoothtalker]

is this leaking cap issue affecting all fluke 289? i'm disappointed with fluke how can this happen to their top of the line modal.

I'm thinking of buying 289, but now i guess i've to stick with 87v. fluke 289 is disappointing.. leaking cap, the ghosting dot matrix lcd, the poor battery life. expensive usb cable, and lack of thermal probe compared to 87v etc.

other than graphing are there advantages for 289 over 87v? ok i can see loz and crest factor calculation.

[dr.diesel]

Really depends on your requirements.  I am not happy with my 289, it's huge and bulky, battery life is not good.  If they made the 289 in a compact bench unit I'd be a happy camper.

Note, there is an available TC probe for the 289, which I do use all the time.

[BravoV]

I suspect the decaying cap has something to do with poor battery life ?

[dr.diesel]

I suspect the decaying cap has something to do with poor battery life ?

Very true, but even with a properly working cap the battery life is not too good IMO.  If memory serves the 289 is rated for just under 200 hours, with no back-light use.  Probably fine for light duty use, but in heavy industrial applications your having to change the batteries every 2 week.

Here in the dark depths of a power plant, the auto power off and auto back-light off are always disabled. 

The 287/289 should have come with a rechargeable pack, charging nightly or every few nights would have sealed the deal.