Author Topic: Flood of new Agilent 82357B GPIB-USB adaptors on eBay the real deal?  (Read 168028 times)

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Offline ManateeMafia

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Re: Flood of new Agilent 82357B GPIB-USB adaptors on eBay the real deal?
« Reply #200 on: December 06, 2015, 08:39:09 pm »
Thanks for the tip.
 

Offline nightpanda

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Re: Flood of new Agilent 82357B GPIB-USB adaptors on eBay the real deal?
« Reply #201 on: December 07, 2015, 07:54:03 am »
Well, I saw someone talked about Beiming GPIB interface in this thread, and I happened to be the one who build up this small toy, so I do feel very happy to be mentioned here several times.

I saw someone said Beiming is the OEM vendor for Keysight/Agilent  :-DD :-DD :-DD. Well I'm sorry that's not correct, Beiming is just a tiny company with just one employee (it's me), and Beiming doesn't have any connection with Keysight/Agilent.

I start this project 5 or 6 years ago, and by that time, I was very curious why Agilent 82357B was that expensive. I think maybe I can make some thing really cheap and good enough to use.

Originally, I hope to use FPGA to build IEEE488 protocol inside by myself, but shortly found that is too much work. So I changed to the way same as Agilent does, using NI chipset instead which could greatly ease the work.

So if you open S82357, you will be able to see NAT9914 and 75ALS162, 75ALS160, which are same with Agilent 82357B. I'm also using the same USB controller as Agilent does, which is CY68013.

You guys may not know, NAT9914 is not cheep. From NI sales channel, this chip is about 20 bucks, and with 75ALS162 and 75ALS160, they may cost over 40USD, which is too much for me. But good thing is, here is China. And you can always got low cost stuffs. I search on Alibaba and found someone sell NAT9914 at 6 buck, I thought they must be faked chips, but what surprised me is, it works as well. From this vendor, I got all the GPIB related chips with much lower price, which made this project more feasible. I still have no idea how they got those cheap NI chipset from, maybe refurbished ones?

The USB controller part software is developed by myself. Because I hope it could be compatible with 82357B or Agilent IO environment, I need to analysis the communication between 82357B and PC, there are plenty of software help to capture the data package over USB for analysis. I tried with many different combination of instruments and software, and try best to cover all circumstances. I remember paid 300 bucks to rent a R&S CMU200 for one week just to make sure S82357 works with it. And that's why I'm keep updating the firmware in past few years, which bothered a lot of customers. I do feel really sorry for that. I also got a lot of help from different people, I remember some one helped capture USB log and email to me for trobleshooting because I can't got his instrument which is working in IEEE488 legacy mode. There is another gentleman helped me to try my Linux driver with his setup (he is in this thread too), I have generate 4 or 5 different version for him and he keep providing me the feedback. I made some really good friends during this process and had a lot of fun here.

What most ironic to me is, although I'm working on a counterfeit 82357, there are also someone trying to counterfeit mine. Someone from Shenzhen bought a very early version S82357 and just use the same design and firmware to sell at a lower price, which is quite a surprise. So after that, I add a small trick to my EEPROM, and made them not able to copy my firmware that easy. That's why there are some not fixed bug keep existing in their version.

Later I made a new version GPIB interface called F82357, which support DMA mode and make the communication speed faster for block transfer. Agilent 82357B  support this function, but it took me some time to understand how DMA works over GPIB. F82357 share the same hardware with S82357, the difference just lies to firmware.

Another thing you may ask is, has Agilent contacted me for doing this? The answer is yes, I got warning message on ebay told me not to mention Agilent with my prodcut. I also found one gentleman bought a S82357 and a F82357 on ebay and shipped to an Agilent office in Colorado. I think they have analyzed my work,  and found the software was developed by myself, so they decided to let me away. I should attach a greeting card with my GPIB interface together.

And in 2014, I found people sell real Agilent 82357B on ebay with very low price, and I start to know my GPIB interface business is done. I think those Agilent 82357B is true, I bought one and compare with mine which I got from Agilent dealer, the hardware are identical, and it works fine. I thought they came form some big contract manufacturer sites like Foxconn. They used to bought thousands  of 82357B for their manufacturing project, and when the project is done, all those equipment comes to the second hand market. I stopped my business on ebay, which took too much of my time on packaging, debugging and supporting works with very small margin.

So feel free to buy the Agilent 82357B on ebay , and enjoy the low price, I think they are true with better quality and reliability.
 




 
« Last Edit: December 07, 2015, 08:29:04 am by nightpanda »
 
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Offline HighVoltage

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Re: Flood of new Agilent 82357B GPIB-USB adaptors on eBay the real deal?
« Reply #202 on: December 07, 2015, 08:27:15 am »
Thank you nightpanda for your explanations.
Very good to know.

I would also think that not all Agilent 82357B on ebay are a fake but it is almost impossible to detect, before you buy them.
There are 3 kinds of people in this world, those who can count and those who can not.
 

Offline Macbeth

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Re: Flood of new Agilent 82357B GPIB-USB adaptors on eBay the real deal?
« Reply #203 on: December 07, 2015, 11:33:17 am »
@nightpanda, fascinating story  :-+ it's a shame your little business has ended. I would also call your device compatible, rather than counterfeit!
 

Offline Scottjd

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Re: Flood of new Agilent 82357B GPIB-USB adaptors on eBay the real deal?
« Reply #204 on: December 07, 2015, 12:08:54 pm »
... I have 30 days to return it, but since the serial was already registered I'm surprised they have not picked up on this until now.
...

eBay specifically state to not return counterfeit item.

The seller, nettcy168, tried to make me return the counterfeit adapter. When I told him that his request was against eBay policy, he refunded me within minutes.

I bought mine from Amazon prime account. Theirs a reason I bought it from Amazon, and cheaper to return also since it was a prime item from a US amazon wharehouse. So I don't have to ship it back to the APAC region.
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Offline Scottjd

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Re: Flood of new Agilent 82357B GPIB-USB adaptors on eBay the real deal?
« Reply #205 on: December 07, 2015, 01:35:07 pm »
Just a quick update, I had requested the certificate from Keysight and they did provide it.
Their a a few notable differences, so if anyone receives an adapter new and sealed in a box the certificate can tell you if it's fake or not. It took them a few weeks since they had to pull it from the archives.

The certificate number is a real number on the keysight form, the fake one just had 82357B.
The serial number was on the real certificate, the fake one didn't have any serial number listed.
The big one, it looks like it was copied with a cheap copy machine.
And as I mentioned, of you register the serial number with keysight it's probably already registered in the past and the warranty is expired.

Their are other differences, but I won't mention them all since they will try to fix it.
But those are the easiest to figure out if it may be a fake one you received. It's funny, they out the time in listing the serial number on the box that matches the one in the adapter, but didn't bother to list it on the form.

Oh, and your software CD probably has a scratch on it, and it's in a very flimsy CD case. I guess they don't want to bother burning real CDs with the software, so they just print labels and out them on bad CDs. So who knows what data was really on the CD. I should have checked, but to late now.
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Offline macboy

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Re: Flood of new Agilent 82357B GPIB-USB adaptors on eBay the real deal?
« Reply #206 on: December 07, 2015, 02:58:18 pm »
@nightpanda, fascinating story  :-+ it's a shame your little business has ended. I would also call your device compatible, rather than counterfeit!
I agree, it is a compatible, not a counterfeit.  When I replaced the alternator in my car, I used a compatible after market one. It is not counterfeit either, just a less expensive option for the consumer who wishes to choose that.

However, those look-alike 82357B clones are counterfeit. They copied the look, the PCB layout, and presumably the firmware. Because it is identical in every way (except build quality) it works identically too, which is great for users, but it is clear-cut IP theft. I own one of these (see my earlier post), but I didn't get it as cheaply as some here, and I did believe it was authentic. I would not have purchased it had I suspected a counterfeit.
 

Offline plesa

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Re: Flood of new Agilent 82357B GPIB-USB adaptors on eBay the real deal?
« Reply #207 on: December 07, 2015, 03:09:00 pm »
Thanks for joining forum and posting story behind it. So the currently discussed adapters
http://www.ebay.com/itm/82357B-GPIB-USB-Interface-Compatible-with-AGILENT-82357B-new-version-/251692772284?hash=item3a9a0eebbc:g:GBgAAOSw8cNUTQ1O

with ID H82357 are based on one of your design?
Based on yesterday test these adapters accept the measat_releaseX1.8.hex firmware uploaded by fxload.
But uploading this firmware the adapter ID is changed to 82357B with SN: US12345678

Maybe this can explain why adapters does not work in Win10 at all and in Win8 they works on random basis.
 

Offline nightpanda

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Re: Flood of new Agilent 82357B GPIB-USB adaptors on eBay the real deal?
« Reply #208 on: December 07, 2015, 04:01:37 pm »
Thanks for joining forum and posting story behind it. So the currently discussed adapters
http://www.ebay.com/itm/82357B-GPIB-USB-Interface-Compatible-with-AGILENT-82357B-new-version-/251692772284?hash=item3a9a0eebbc:g:GBgAAOSw8cNUTQ1O

with ID H82357 are based on one of your design?
Based on yesterday test these adapters accept the measat_releaseX1.8.hex firmware uploaded by fxload.
But uploading this firmware the adapter ID is changed to 82357B with SN: US12345678

Maybe this can explain why adapters does not work in Win10 at all and in Win8 they works on random basis.

Yes,  that's the one I mentioned in my post. This guy bought two pieces from me, and then start sell his version on ebay. I also bought one unit from him, and compare the firmware file with mine and found only the ID and SN number was changed (you can simply do this by a ASCII file editor). I have also published my schematic on a local forum, so its not difficult to get all the stuffs.

But what he has is a very old firmware version. Basic SCPI send and read function is ok, but not support SICL mode (not able to communicate with old HP instrument like 3458A). Not support secondary GPIB address (like R&S CUM200), no DMA mode, and no Linux support.

Since we have the same hardware before 2014, the firmware file from S82357 could be used with his adapter too. And after that, I change the hardware and added another piece of EEPROM on S82357 with SN number and some other information on it. Before running the code, it compare those message and decide whether to run the code.

So, after 2013, S82357 firmware file is linked with its SN number. You can not simply read firmware from one piece and upload  to another piece. That's why I'm always asking customer to provide SN number for firmware upgrading. I need to generate firmware for each piece of S82357 individually.

I think that explains why H82357 with my firmware not works in Win10 or win8. It just failed at SN check point.
 

Offline Macbeth

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Re: Flood of new Agilent 82357B GPIB-USB adaptors on eBay the real deal?
« Reply #209 on: December 07, 2015, 04:18:59 pm »
I found a teardown of the Beiming S82357 on the Sigrok website. I guess we can identify the scratched off IC numbers now  ;)
 

Offline plesa

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Re: Flood of new Agilent 82357B GPIB-USB adaptors on eBay the real deal?
« Reply #210 on: December 07, 2015, 04:27:15 pm »
Thanks for joining forum and posting story behind it. So the currently discussed adapters
http://www.ebay.com/itm/82357B-GPIB-USB-Interface-Compatible-with-AGILENT-82357B-new-version-/251692772284?hash=item3a9a0eebbc:g:GBgAAOSw8cNUTQ1O

with ID H82357 are based on one of your design?
Based on yesterday test these adapters accept the measat_releaseX1.8.hex firmware uploaded by fxload.
But uploading this firmware the adapter ID is changed to 82357B with SN: US12345678

Maybe this can explain why adapters does not work in Win10 at all and in Win8 they works on random basis.

Yes,  that's the one I mentioned in my post. This guy bought two pieces from me, and then start sell his version on ebay. I also bought one unit from him, and compare the firmware file with mine and found only the ID and SN number was changed (you can simply do this by a ASCII file editor). I have also published my schematic on a local forum, so its not difficult to get all the stuffs.

But what he has is a very old firmware version. Basic SCPI send and read function is ok, but not support SICL mode (not able to communicate with old HP instrument like 3458A). Not support secondary GPIB address (like R&S CUM200), no DMA mode, and no Linux support.

Since we have the same hardware before 2014, the firmware file from S82357 could be used with his adapter too. And after that, I change the hardware and added another piece of EEPROM on S82357 with SN number and some other information on it. Before running the code, it compare those message and decide whether to run the code.

So, after 2013, S82357 firmware file is linked with its SN number. You can not simply read firmware from one piece and upload  to another piece. That's why I'm always asking customer to provide SN number for firmware upgrading. I need to generate firmware for each piece of S82357 individually.

I think that explains why H82357 with my firmware not works in Win10 or win8. It just failed at SN check point.

Oh I get it it was not clear to me from first post. So glad to receive full refund from nettcy168 and I can put it into dust bin:)
 

Offline bingo600

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Re: Flood of new Agilent 82357B GPIB-USB adaptors on eBay the real deal?
« Reply #211 on: December 07, 2015, 05:10:35 pm »

Quote
There is another gentleman helped me to try my Linux driver with his setup (he is in this thread too), I have generate 4 or 5 different version for him and he keep providing me the feedback

Hi Cheh   :-+
Nice hearing from you again  ;)

So that's why i can't find any Beiming adapters on *bay anymore.

/Bingo
 

Offline eliocor

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Re: Flood of new Agilent 82357B GPIB-USB adaptors on eBay the real deal?
« Reply #212 on: December 08, 2015, 02:48:20 am »
Hi Cheh (nightpanda),
I'm one of your lucky customers and I can only praise your work!!!
My F82357 has always worked flawlessly.

_       Elio.
 

Offline Mosaic

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Re: Flood of new Agilent 82357B GPIB-USB adaptors on eBay the real deal?
« Reply #213 on: January 11, 2016, 11:17:46 am »
Ok, I ordered a HP82357B USB GPIB from the nettcy168 guy for 59 total.

From the  blog it seems the compatibles are better made than the fakes...so Ill give it a go as 'used' NI are still 3x the price.
I Have an HP8753D I want to use with it.

ALL his -ve revies are for the Agilent 'fakes' he has good reviews on the 'compatibles'.

 

Offline Scottjd

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Re: Flood of new Agilent 82357B GPIB-USB adaptors on eBay the real deal?
« Reply #214 on: January 13, 2016, 04:06:25 am »
Well since I was one that bought a fake one not knowing they were flooding the market and also recently bought a real one I thought I would do a video showing some of the differences in packaging between the fake and real adapter.

I can say the real one is working great so far, no problems setting it up even on Windows 10 and already having the NI Visa bus installed. Everything still installed smoothly and worked.

The video is still processing for HD versions, but should be done in the next 20 minutes.
https://youtu.be/NWHg_20cr7A
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Offline VK5RC

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Re: Flood of new Agilent 82357B GPIB-USB adaptors on eBay the real deal?
« Reply #215 on: January 25, 2016, 10:27:21 am »
I can't recall seeing this issue in this post but are there fake NI GPIB-USB interfaces as well?
I have a "good" fake HP 82358B which doesn't easily link with linux-GPIB on a RPi, but does run BenchVue etc on 34401 etc.

EDIT; ANSWER = YES,  see  https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/hp_agilent_equipment/conversations/topics/71997
« Last Edit: January 25, 2016, 11:03:22 am by VK5RC »
Whoah! Watch where that landed we might need it later.
 

Offline TiN

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Re: Flood of new Agilent 82357B GPIB-USB adaptors on eBay the real deal?
« Reply #216 on: January 25, 2016, 10:45:06 am »
nightpanda
Thanks for joining forum and sharing your view. Hope you have more stuff going on to share with us in future  :-/O :-+
YouTube | Metrology IRC Chat room | Let's share T&M documentation? Upload! No upload limits for firmwares, photos, files.
 

Offline Scottjd

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Re: Flood of new Agilent 82357B GPIB-USB adaptors on eBay the real deal?
« Reply #217 on: January 25, 2016, 11:19:35 am »
I can't recall seeing this issue in this post but are there fake NI GPIB-USB interfaces as well?
I have a "good" fake HP 82358B which doesn't easily link with linux-GPIB on a RPi, but does run BenchVue etc on 34401 etc.

EDIT; ANSWER = YES,  see  https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/hp_agilent_equipment/conversations/topics/71997

As you already discovered, yes. I also spoke with NI on the phone and they confirmed this and they are aware of it. I like the fact that they were able to admit their are fakes and they know about the problem.

Scott
« Last Edit: January 25, 2016, 11:23:05 am by Scottjd »
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Offline Scottjd

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Re: Flood of new Agilent 82357B GPIB-USB adaptors on eBay the real deal?
« Reply #218 on: January 25, 2016, 11:32:01 am »
nightpanda
Thanks for joining forum and sharing your view. Hope you have more stuff going on to share with us in future  :-/O :-+

Hi TIn,
Was that message to me? I really couldn't tell.
But if it was.....Yes. I hoe to have more stuff to share also. I have a few videos I haven't got to editing yet. And working in changing the channels name also, I know that can be confusing. I used to be a network security professional and did investigations and this channel was an alias that I decided to use now that im not working. But for now it stays labled as Dave B. Reviews until I decide what I want to call it.
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Offline davebb

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Re: Flood of new Agilent 82357B GPIB-USB adaptors on eBay the real deal?
« Reply #219 on: February 25, 2016, 06:31:17 pm »

 






 

     


Mouse over image to zoom




Hi I got one of these interfaces from nettcy168  ,I can not fined the usb driver
in the manual on the disc that came with it it says just open Agilent IO Libraries Suite , and it will install the driver for the interface, it does not ,I am running win xp,
please tell me what I am doing wrong as I see there are a lot of you running this interface
Thanks Dave

82357B GPIB USB Interface-Compatible with AGILENT 82357B new version

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/251692772284?_trksid=p2060353.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
 

Offline davebb

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Re: Flood of new Agilent 82357B GPIB-USB adaptors on eBay the real deal?
« Reply #220 on: February 26, 2016, 12:05:21 am »
Hi all working now, I had to go into the program files in win xp and get the driver from there
Thanks Dave
 

Offline bsgd

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Re: Flood of new Agilent 82357B GPIB-USB adaptors on eBay the real deal?
« Reply #221 on: February 29, 2016, 08:30:59 pm »
Hi all,

I've read all pages on this thread since Im in the market for a 82357B. From what I gather, all chinese NIB 82357Bs are fake, and as far I understand, some are dying prematurely.

Is there a realible seller selling used original items? If not, do the fake ones work fine or do they all die prematurely? Since Im just a hobbyst, spending $600 dollars on this is a lot, but I am considering getting a new genuine one.

Thanks!
 

Offline Scottjd

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Re: Flood of new Agilent 82357B GPIB-USB adaptors on eBay the real deal?
« Reply #222 on: February 29, 2016, 10:11:04 pm »
Hi all,

I've read all pages on this thread since Im in the market for a 82357B. From what I gather, all chinese NIB 82357Bs are fake, and as far I understand, some are dying prematurely.

Is there a realible seller selling used original items? If not, do the fake ones work fine or do they all die prematurely? Since Im just a hobbyst, spending $600 dollars on this is a lot, but I am considering getting a new genuine one.

Thanks!
As a hobbyist I had the same thought for the cost. Do you have a device already? If not maybe you want to go with one that has USB?
As the new "Agilent standard 34401A replacement" meter start getting adopted I'm sure more authentic used adapters will hit Ebay. Also the NI " National instruments" adapter is just as good and fully comoatable with Agilent/hp/Keysight stuff. I think it was cheaper. I spoke with NI before about the compatibility.
Just take caution on the NI also, at least they had admitted to me that they are aware of some fake NI adapters being sold. That's another story, so who knows how good the fake NI adapters are.
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Online TheSteve

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Re: Flood of new Agilent 82357B GPIB-USB adaptors on eBay the real deal?
« Reply #223 on: February 29, 2016, 10:45:45 pm »
If you're patient you should be able to find a genuine one for under 100 USD used off of ebay. Yes it can be tough to determine if it is authentic. Without opening it you should be able to see just inside the edges where the case halves meet to see the gold metallic spray shielding that is only present on authentic units. I got a real one for 25 bucks as the mounting screws had been snapped off which is fine for my needs.
If you do get a fake you should have no problems getting a refund.
VE7FM
 

Offline bsgd

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Re: Flood of new Agilent 82357B GPIB-USB adaptors on eBay the real deal?
« Reply #224 on: February 29, 2016, 11:10:00 pm »
Hi all,

I've read all pages on this thread since Im in the market for a 82357B. From what I gather, all chinese NIB 82357Bs are fake, and as far I understand, some are dying prematurely.

Is there a realible seller selling used original items? If not, do the fake ones work fine or do they all die prematurely? Since Im just a hobbyst, spending $600 dollars on this is a lot, but I am considering getting a new genuine one.

Thanks!
As a hobbyist I had the same thought for the cost. Do you have a device already? If not maybe you want to go with one that has USB?
As the new "Agilent standard 34401A replacement" meter start getting adopted I'm sure more authentic used adapters will hit Ebay. Also the NI " National instruments" adapter is just as good and fully comoatable with Agilent/hp/Keysight stuff. I think it was cheaper. I spoke with NI before about the compatibility.
Just take caution on the NI also, at least they had admitted to me that they are aware of some fake NI adapters being sold. That's another story, so who knows how good the fake NI adapters are.

Yes, I already have the device: an Agilent 8903B Audio Analyzer. I was actually using it with a Beiming GPIB adapter but all of a sudden it quit working. I opened it up but did not find anything wrong with it. Windows says the device is malfunctioning and wont recognize it.

NI might be a good option too. You see, Im not too keen on buying a fake product, but as a hobbyist Im not convinced I should spend $600 on something which I will probably use a couple times a year. I have been looking at some chinese Agilent GPIBs but my guess is that they are all fake, made by the same people/company/whatever.

If you're patient you should be able to find a genuine one for under 100 USD used off of ebay. Yes it can be tough to determine if it is authentic. Without opening it you should be able to see just inside the edges where the case halves meet to see the gold metallic spray shielding that is only present on authentic units. I got a real one for 25 bucks as the mounting screws had been snapped off which is fine for my needs.
If you do get a fake you should have no problems getting a refund.

This is a good option, altough my current adapter just failed and I am really in need of a new one. I guess I should leave my current project on standby and wait for a chance to get a genuine used product, even though now with all these fakes its getting hard to tell the fake ones from the real ones just by looking at some pictures.

I have dropped the Beiming guy an email in hope there is a known issue with my adapter that can be fixed, but its been a long time since he stopped selling these so Im not sure he will get back to me.

Right now I really wish my 8903 had a USB port  ::)
 


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