Author Topic: Flood of new Agilent 82357B GPIB-USB adaptors on eBay the real deal?  (Read 171550 times)

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Offline philpem

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Re: Flood of new Agilent 82357B GPIB-USB adaptors on eBay the real deal?
« Reply #75 on: August 13, 2015, 12:07:48 am »
Well damn... I've just put in an offer in on this one:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/261397671097?_trksid=p2060353.m2763.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

Wish I'd seen the comments about them being knock-offs first...  |O

You can withdraw the offer.

They've just sent me a counter-offer of $110, same as they've done for other people here. I've got the option of accepting, rejecting, or sending another counter-offer back.

What's making me curious is where they're getting the Agilent custom GPIB controller chips... surely there aren't that many broken 82537Bs kicking around with working chips they can salvage?
Phil / M0OFX -- Electronics/Software Engineer
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Offline dadler

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Re: Flood of new Agilent 82357B GPIB-USB adaptors on eBay the real deal?
« Reply #76 on: August 13, 2015, 12:16:22 am »
They accepted $51 for the explicit clone.
 

Offline rfeecs

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Re: Flood of new Agilent 82357B GPIB-USB adaptors on eBay the real deal?
« Reply #77 on: August 13, 2015, 12:36:58 am »
What's making me curious is where they're getting the Agilent custom GPIB controller chips... surely there aren't that many broken 82537Bs kicking around with working chips they can salvage?

It seems to be readily available:
http://www.digchip.com/datasheets/quote.php?action=search&pn=1822-0639

I think it was used in other Agilent equipment as well.
 

Offline radioFlash

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Re: Flood of new Agilent 82357B GPIB-USB adaptors on eBay the real deal?
« Reply #78 on: August 13, 2015, 02:20:07 am »
Here are photos of my ebay 82357B. Differences compared to the "genuine" photos posted by rfeecs:

* PCB doesn't have "Agilent" anywhere on it
* The oscillator by the Cypress IC is a cheap ass oscillator that would be at home in a $2 watch
* There are no stickers on the ICs on the bottom of the PCB
* The interior of the case isn't metallized
« Last Edit: August 13, 2015, 02:34:12 am by radioFlash »
 

Offline radioFlash

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Re: Flood of new Agilent 82357B GPIB-USB adaptors on eBay the real deal?
« Reply #79 on: August 13, 2015, 02:21:23 am »
...and the interior of the case
 

Offline dadler

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Re: Flood of new Agilent 82357B GPIB-USB adaptors on eBay the real deal?
« Reply #80 on: August 13, 2015, 02:35:40 am »
Which seller did you buy from?

At least the soldering on yours isn't that bad.
« Last Edit: August 13, 2015, 02:37:22 am by dadler »
 

Offline radioFlash

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Re: Flood of new Agilent 82357B GPIB-USB adaptors on eBay the real deal?
« Reply #81 on: August 13, 2015, 02:44:40 am »
 

Offline dadler

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Re: Flood of new Agilent 82357B GPIB-USB adaptors on eBay the real deal?
« Reply #82 on: August 13, 2015, 02:47:28 am »
Interesting, so there are several versions of these things floating around. How bizarre.
 

Offline Swake

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Re: Flood of new Agilent 82357B GPIB-USB adaptors on eBay the real deal?
« Reply #83 on: August 13, 2015, 12:45:22 pm »
Did someone try it with Labview or some other lab software? was everything ok and functional?
« Last Edit: August 13, 2015, 12:59:08 pm by Swake »
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Offline plesa

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Re: Flood of new Agilent 82357B GPIB-USB adaptors on eBay the real deal?
« Reply #84 on: August 13, 2015, 02:17:27 pm »
I'm surprised that they are still selling fake product and nobody from Agilent/Keysight wants to stop them.
 

Offline Le_Bassiste

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Re: Flood of new Agilent 82357B GPIB-USB adaptors on eBay the real deal?
« Reply #85 on: August 13, 2015, 03:34:01 pm »
Did someone try it with Labview or some other lab software? was everything ok and functional?

did modify an example excel VBA project from the accompanying driver disc (which contains Agilent IO libraries Suite V. 15.5.) to control a PM6304.
so far, everything works as advertised. in the light of the price, i'm ok with what i got, although soldering job is craptastic and definitely cries "refurbished!". won't buy from that seller again, though. :--
An assertion ending with a question mark is a brain fart.
 

Offline rfeecs

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Re: Flood of new Agilent 82357B GPIB-USB adaptors on eBay the real deal?
« Reply #86 on: August 13, 2015, 04:29:09 pm »
I have a National Instruments GPIB-USB-HS, so just for fun I opened it up and took some pictures:
https://flic.kr/s/aHskeCrnbV
A bit denser design than the Agilent.  All the components are on one side of the board.  This unit is about ten years old.  Uses NI's TNT5004 ASIC.

These things are all over eBay from China as well:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-In-Box-National-Instrumens-GPIB-USB-HS-Interface-Adapter-Controller-IEEE-488-/141405356185
 

Offline SoundTech-LG

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Re: Flood of new Agilent 82357B GPIB-USB adaptors on eBay the real deal?
« Reply #87 on: August 14, 2015, 12:15:13 am »
Probably well worth the additional cost. National is the leader in GPIB, and I'm hearing from many engineers at work the operation/firmware/software is far superior, and more compatible across the wealth of instruments out there.
 

Offline Sbampato12

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Re: Flood of new Agilent 82357B GPIB-USB adaptors on eBay the real deal?
« Reply #88 on: August 14, 2015, 12:07:04 pm »
Probably well worth the additional cost. National is the leader in GPIB, and I'm hearing from many engineers at work the operation/firmware/software is far superior, and more compatible across the wealth of instruments out there.

I have a GPIB-PCI boar from national. They support to any other option beyond labview is very poor. I've managed to get a really old driver to work with Delphi/C++ in a undocumented way (that should only work with Win98 and below, or something like that).

At least, when I've searched for support or help material this was what I found. Based in this experience I would prefer non-NI options.

I expect that HP/Agilent/Key... has a better support for non labview options.
 

Offline plesa

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Re: Flood of new Agilent 82357B GPIB-USB adaptors on eBay the real deal?
« Reply #89 on: August 14, 2015, 03:27:03 pm »
I'm using several years NI GPIB HS  and I did not find any incompatibility issue. Eg. Keithley use the NI HS OEM version I suppose as KUSB-488B.
http://www.keithley.com/products/accessories/ieee/usb/?mn=KUSB-488B.
Another alternative can be GPIB gateways, it is more universal with similar pricing as GPIB adapter ( used).
 

Offline rfeecs

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Re: Flood of new Agilent 82357B GPIB-USB adaptors on eBay the real deal?
« Reply #90 on: August 14, 2015, 04:45:40 pm »
I've also used NI since the DOS 3.3 days through to Windows 7 using BASIC, C, C++ and .NET, not LabView.  Used it with both Microsoft and Borland compilers.  Never found a lack of support.

The Agilent and NI USB products are pretty compatible.  I can literally unplug one and plug in the other with no changes to the software.

HP created HPIB (Before they changed to Agilent, Keysight...).  NI brought GPIB to the PDP-11 and IBM PC and just about everything else.

Anyway, I suspect those NI GPIB-USB-HS's from China are just as fake as the Agilent ones.
« Last Edit: August 14, 2015, 04:49:38 pm by rfeecs »
 

Offline plesa

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Re: Flood of new Agilent 82357B GPIB-USB adaptors on eBay the real deal?
« Reply #91 on: August 14, 2015, 08:24:39 pm »
I think so. e.g. http://www.ebay.com/itm/Used-National-Instrumens-NI-GPIB-USB-HS-Interface-Adapter-controller-IEEE-488-/221472994812?hash=item3390d1b5fc
does have different screws ( similar to Agilent GPIB adapters).
But other where seller has huge quantities marked as used does not looks genuine as well
http://www.ebay.com/itm/10PCS-National-Instruments-NI-GPIB-USB-HS-High-Performance-GPIB-Controller-/161776750165?hash=item25aaa54e55
Screws on this listing look like on genuine NI product.
« Last Edit: August 14, 2015, 08:27:44 pm by plesa »
 

Offline MarkL

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Re: Flood of new Agilent 82357B GPIB-USB adaptors on eBay the real deal?
« Reply #92 on: August 16, 2015, 10:06:46 pm »
I ordered one from this seller:

  http://www.ebay.com/itm/261397671097

$115 for me.

After all the speculation, of course I couldn't keep the lid on.

Like the others, mine had a lot of excess flux on the board, but ONLY on the Agilent 1822-0639 GPIB controller, the Cypress CY7C68013A-128AXC USB controller, the Xilinx XC9536XL CPLD, and a 5-pin SOT labeled "LTKS" that appears to be part of a switching power supply.  These were all clearly hand soldered, and the way the pads look I believe they are replacements.

All the other components appear to have been machine placed with good alignment and the board was properly reflowed and cleaned.  There was a small amount of flux on the GPIB connector pins, but not nearly as much as the chips above.  It seems likely the connector was originally hand soldered after reflow.

My box was unsealed, but the serial number on the box matched that on the unit.  Mine also came with a CD and manual, both in pristine condition.

My guess is that these adapters were either repaired or re-manufactured by Agilent (or possibly someone else) to correct a defect.

The adapter works ok under linux-gpib, but the driver is reporting occasional errors accessing registers on the adapter.  I'm not sure yet if the adapter is at fault or if it's the driver.


So, I don't think they're counterfeit, but it's surely stretching ebay's definition of "New: A brand-new, unused, unopened, undamaged item in its original packaging."  There's no question these units have an unsavory history.

And if they are counterfeit, it's a pretty good one.  Someone went to an awful lot of trouble.
 

Offline Macbeth

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Re: Flood of new Agilent 82357B GPIB-USB adaptors on eBay the real deal?
« Reply #93 on: August 16, 2015, 10:51:51 pm »
My attempts at getting the 3 lowest price sellers to counteroffer led to one bowing out and the other two ending up at $80 including delivery. Now I don't need one of these as I am happy with USB-TMC and RS232 at the moment, but I am sure I will pick up some gear in the future that requires GPIB. If the non-fake but still a copy device is going for $51 (+ $10 P&P) then that seems the better deal to me.

I really do not want to reward counterfeiters with any premium. Blatant copiers I'm ok with. There is a difference. Also the likes of Agilent & NI need shooting for their absurd prices.
 

Offline dadler

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Re: Flood of new Agilent 82357B GPIB-USB adaptors on eBay the real deal?
« Reply #94 on: August 17, 2015, 01:34:36 am »
I ordered one from this seller:

  http://www.ebay.com/itm/261397671097

$115 for me.

After all the speculation, of course I couldn't keep the lid on.

Like the others, mine had a lot of excess flux on the board, but ONLY on the Agilent 1822-0639 GPIB controller, the Cypress CY7C68013A-128AXC USB controller, the Xilinx XC9536XL CPLD, and a 5-pin SOT labeled "LTKS" that appears to be part of a switching power supply.  These were all clearly hand soldered, and the way the pads look I believe they are replacements.

All the other components appear to have been machine placed with good alignment and the board was properly reflowed and cleaned.  There was a small amount of flux on the GPIB connector pins, but not nearly as much as the chips above.  It seems likely the connector was originally hand soldered after reflow.

My box was unsealed, but the serial number on the box matched that on the unit.  Mine also came with a CD and manual, both in pristine condition.

My guess is that these adapters were either repaired or re-manufactured by Agilent (or possibly someone else) to correct a defect.

The adapter works ok under linux-gpib, but the driver is reporting occasional errors accessing registers on the adapter.  I'm not sure yet if the adapter is at fault or if it's the driver.


So, I don't think they're counterfeit, but it's surely stretching ebay's definition of "New: A brand-new, unused, unopened, undamaged item in its original packaging."  There's no question these units have an unsavory history.

And if they are counterfeit, it's a pretty good one.  Someone went to an awful lot of trouble.

So, I bought mine from this same seller. Mine was boxed and sealed in the box with "Agilent Technologies" paper tape.

I truly thought it was real, grey-market, yadda yadda. Now I truly think it's entirely counterfeit. I still don't know why someone would go to such effort to clone these things, as I can't imagine the market for these devices is that large. GPIB is a pretty niche interface, at least for the general public that buys stuff on eBay. Real companies, that depend on their tools, would never source test equipment like this on eBay.

Parts of my board are certainly hand-soldered, and there is a lot of flux on the tops of the various ICs. However, some of the soldering may be reflow-soldered--hard to tell. Some of the SMT caps and resistors look to have been hand reflowed, perhaps to fix faults.

In comparison to "real" devices posted by others, the facets that concern me are:

- These suspect devices have ICs with date codes years after the "warranty" date associated with the serial number on the device/packaging.
- Serial numbers all seem to be from a short sequence of "real" devices from 2009. I don't even know how many unique serial numbers are being assigned, could only be 10 different ones as far as I know.
- PCB quality, differences in font in the word "Agilent, some of the pcbs missing the "Agilent" branding altogether, PCBs have lots of component designations (e.g. R5) that are not found in authentic versions
- When I tried to pierce the serial number label to get to the screw underneath, the ink/pigment smeared. Hard to describe, but not confidence inspiring.
- Phillips head screw holding case together
- No shielding on the inside of the case
- Many of the SMT passives are misaligned
- Re-evaluating the software/driver disc that came with the unit, I realized the printing is out of focus/blurry. The quality of the disc does not match other Agilent discs that I have.
- The "Agilent Technologies" box that the unit came in, was imperfectly "stamped" with the text "Agilent Technologies". It's sort of double-printed. For contrast, I have a truly authentic DSOXLAN box here (Purchased from Newark), and the text on the cardboard is impeccable--very sharp. Not the case with the packaging of the eBay 82357B.

When I first got the unit, I tested it and it worked perfectly. From the exterior, it looks good. Even the packaging looked good to me, until this thread made me question my initial conclusions. Looking back, I see all sorts of indicators this is an outright fake.

I have purchased one of the "deliberate" clones from the same seller, and will tear it down when it arrives.

Here are inline photos of the interior of my eBay 82357B:









« Last Edit: August 17, 2015, 01:38:59 am by dadler »
 

Offline dadler

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Re: Flood of new Agilent 82357B GPIB-USB adaptors on eBay the real deal?
« Reply #95 on: August 17, 2015, 01:40:51 am »
My attempts at getting the 3 lowest price sellers to counteroffer led to one bowing out and the other two ending up at $80 including delivery. Now I don't need one of these as I am happy with USB-TMC and RS232 at the moment, but I am sure I will pick up some gear in the future that requires GPIB. If the non-fake but still a copy device is going for $51 (+ $10 P&P) then that seems the better deal to me.

I really do not want to reward counterfeiters with any premium. Blatant copiers I'm ok with. There is a difference. Also the likes of Agilent & NI need shooting for their absurd prices.

I actually got them to accept $51, postage included (DHL Shenzhen->USA)
 

Offline PTR_1275

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Re: Flood of new Agilent 82357B GPIB-USB adaptors on eBay the real deal?
« Reply #96 on: August 17, 2015, 11:41:59 am »
I've just opened my unit up. Excess flux around the agilent chip, the cypress chip and the xilinx chip too. Everything else looks squeaky clean. It is a heck of a lot of effort to go to for a item like this. I will fire up the old workshop computer (The only windows PC I have) and give it a quick whirl to see if it works or not.
 

Offline schopi68

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Re: Flood of new Agilent 82357B GPIB-USB adaptors on eBay the real deal?
« Reply #97 on: August 17, 2015, 12:15:00 pm »
Companies like Agilent have a extreme high respect to their Logo and proper printing of it in the right colors, sizes and fonts.

On several of the pictures show here i can see that the Alignment of the blue Agilent Star in respect to the A does not fit. Its right line does not point to the middle of the A in the word Agilent.

Furthermore if you compare the Agilent on the PCBs you'll see that the counterfeit-parts are not using the correct font. I would not expect Agilent to produce something with a wrong logo on it, so it must be counterfeit.

Where i am not sure is the Agilent logo printed on some of the chips in the pictures shown here. It looks like the letter spacing may be wrong on some of the pictures.
 

Offline guido

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Re: Flood of new Agilent 82357B GPIB-USB adaptors on eBay the real deal?
« Reply #98 on: August 17, 2015, 10:49:45 pm »
I have a fake 82357B, which doesn't try to hide; just a square gold box with a sticker saying 82357B GPIB-USB controller. I tried to get it to run with the applications i'm using (EZGPIB, Timelabs) but ran into problems. No idea if it was due to the adapter or the HP suite (or the combination). Now using a prologix.

The inside of the box is not that interesting; all of the chips and even other components are hidden under black epoxy. Nothing to see. But the soldering job is pretty good compared to what i see here.
 

Offline HighVoltage

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Re: Flood of new Agilent 82357B GPIB-USB adaptors on eBay the real deal?
« Reply #99 on: August 18, 2015, 06:36:44 am »
I bought a few of these over the last few years and never had any problems with them and never suspected anything wrong, even when the price was low.
But now I am tempted to open all my units.
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