Flood of new Agilent 82357B GPIB-USB adaptors on eBay the real deal?

[dadler]

So I disassembled mine, and yeah I think you are right. Something is up with these.

From the exterior you'd not know they were off, but on the inside they don't look so hot.

Seems there is hand-soldering etc on the board.

I'm not sure if they are entirely counterfeit (probably?) or throw-aways that someone hand-finished?

I don't even know if the ICs are real, although they have real-looking etching on them (don't the fake ones all)?

I'm going to go ahead and say you probably should *not* buy one of these--although mine works fine and the Agilent software communicates with it properly.

Color me extremely surprised that someone would go to the effort to try to fake these (if that is the case, which it seems to be), considering they are really a niche product and GPIB is sorta dying.

Pictures:

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/nft0i1dppaobxpj/AADwdl_0facGw83OkM8QZfWfa?dl=0

Apologies if anyone bought one of these because of my "testimonial". I truly thought what up I bought was authentic. I guess you can't trust anything you read on the Internet, especially if I posted it.

[Electro Fan]

Is the  Agilent 82357B GPIB-USB adaptor compatible with IO connectors labeled HP-IB, or just with connectors labeled GPIB?

Are you using these primarily to read data from your test equipment into your computer, or to control the test equipment from your computer?  What are your favorite uses for the 82357B (or similar interfaces)?

Which gear do you tend to use the most with the GPIB (oscilloscope, spectrum analyzer, signal/waveform generator, power meter, other)?

Thanks

[TheSteve]

Any chance these are defective returns that someone got a hold of, is repairing and "refurbishing"?

[Mr Simpleton]

Got one for $110, to compliment my genuine 82357B... Once I do get the box I will compare the two

[anotherlin]

Ouch !
Mine is waiting for me to pick it up at the post office.
I'll open it when I get it.

[knotlogic]

Any chance these are defective returns that someone got a hold of, is repairing and "refurbishing"?

Yes.  From the description of the insides, maybe what happened is someone got hold of a bunch of parts that were either overruns, returns or failed testing, likely been sitting around for a while, and clobbed them together to produce a run of working units.  It's possible that the serial numbers are produced from a legit source too, just that Agilent/Keysight may not know they weren't used on an official production run.

Here's a thought, are you all getting *different* serial numbers on your parts?

Years ago, I of stuff like this happening in the semicon field.  Chips that failed testing are sent off to be destroyed, but never get there. 

[rfeecs]

Looks like the serial numbers are different but close to each other.  Agilent Connection Expert software reports the serial number on the label.

Mine looks like pretty much all hand assembled.  Also looks like the case is a copy and the PC board is a copy.

The fake unit has no EMI shielding.  The real unit has metallic paint on the inside and the cable has a metal clip to contact the case.

Some pictures of the genuine unit:  https://flic.kr/s/aHski6wCpr

Pictures of the eBay unit:  https://flic.kr/s/aHskexv9Dc

[dadler]

The serial numbers are different and sequential, probably faked from an ascending series (of real devices) from 2009.

Mine shows a 2009 "warranty" start date.

I thought these were "grey market" as opposed to counterfeit, but they do seem to be some sort of counterfeit.

I can't tell if mine is entirely hand assembled or not. Some of the soldering does look reflow-soldered, other parts are clearly by hand (done poorly, with little spiky pieces of solder). There is also flux in many places, but not everywhere--which I would expect if it was entirely hand soldered. Just guessing here.

I don't know if the PCB is real or fake, although it seems good quality to me. I think it's a 4 layer board. Is the layout identical to the real thing? Maybe someone that worked in the real assembly plant stole a bunch of engineering data and decided to clone these things. Cloning them from scratch seems to be a big effort.

[Electro Fan]

Looks like the serial numbers are different but close to each other.  Agilent Connection Expert software reports the serial number on the label.

Mine looks like pretty much all hand assembled.  Also looks like the case is a copy and the PC board is a copy.

The fake unit has no EMI shielding.  The real unit has metallic paint on the inside and the cable has a metal clip to contact the case.

Some pictures of the genuine unit:  https://flic.kr/s/aHski6wCpr

Pictures of the eBay unit:  https://flic.kr/s/aHskexv9Dc

Regarding the "pictures of the eBay unit"... can you please post the link to the particular eBay item you are referring to?  Thanks

[rfeecs]

Regarding the "pictures of the eBay unit"... can you please post the link to the particular eBay item you are referring to?  Thanks

This was the eBay item: http://www.ebay.com/itm/201392178689

For the PC board, attached is a picture for comparison, genuine unit is on top, eBay is on bottom.

Definitely have a different font and different silk screen.  I don't know if the layout is exactly the same.  The eBay unit has many more reference designators on the silk screen.

It does seem bizarre that someone would make a knock-off.  There are a couple programmable devices they would have to copy as well.

Anyway, I bought this unit for work.  It seems to be working fine so far, so I'll pretend it is the real thing and see how it goes.

[rfeecs]

Staring at the pictures, I notice that the PC board artwork is not exactly the same.  There are lots of small differences.  Traces are different widths and slightly different placements, and some pads are different sizes.

[dadler]

Yeah I'm seeing the same differences. But the general layout does look very close. Really seems that the layout leaked, or the Chinese have some impressive layout-reverse-engineering skills. Probably the latter.

I guess I continue to be impressed that people put such effort into cloning products, when they could be doing legitimate work and building legitimate things. I would feel guilty, but I guess some people can turn that off.

[TheSteve]

Notice the genuine board has "Agilent" in its proper font, while the knock-off just used whatever was loaded into the PCB design(copying?) program.

[Electro Fan]

dadler and macboy - does this look like the item you guys purchased?   (Same seller you purchased from?) 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/261397671097?_trksid=p2060353.m2763.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

Given all the back and forth on these, anyone want to post a link to one that you are still confident is genuine?

[SkyMaster]

Today, I received the one I had ordered, from eBay as being "Item condition: New" from seller nettcy168

Mine too is being reported as being out of warranty since 12/8/2010 on the Agilent website.

The first seven digits of the serial number seem to be the same as everybody else (MY49450...).


Is there a rule on eBay that prohibit selling counterfeit equipment?

[dadler]

Same seller I purchased from. It works fine. Despite my initial impressions, after opening the device it seems it is a counterfeit or a hand-fixed throwaway. Quality seems good but the soldering is poor in places.

For the price, not a terrible deal--I may have haggled with the seller if I knew it was fake. I notice now that they sell deliberate "clones" in black enclosures, which are probably the exact same boards in a different housing. Would probably go for one of those. I don't think I could convince myself to pay >$500 for a "real" one in any case.

So I don't know, I'm not thrilled I was duped. I found references on the time-nuts mailing list originally that claimed these units were authentic surplus Agilent products. I searched eBay for the most reputable-seeming seller and took the risk. Exterior-wise, my unit looks very, very convincing. The plastic housing feels high-quality, the cabling is high quality, the cable strap around the cable is high quality. Came in very convincing packaging. The GPIB screw anchors look exactly like those on my authentic, Agilent-purchased GPIB cables (hard to describe, the sort of stippling on the metal surface).

Only after opening the case did I realize something was up. That the warranty was "expired" didn't alarm me, as I was under the impression these were old units anyways.

So I don't know. My ego is hurt more than anything, as the device still works fine. I mainly feel bad that I said the item was genuine, when clearly I was not the best judge of that fact. I have edited my original post, so others aren't misled by my naïveté.

[SkyMaster]

The GPIB screw anchors look exactly like those on my authentic, Agilent-purchased GPIB cables (hard to describe, the sort of stippling on the metal surface).

This is called Kurnls; https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Knurling 

[dadler]

Yeah, that's what I meant. My brain clearly had those two concepts organized near each other.

[philpem]

Well damn... I've just put in an offer in on this one:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/261397671097?_trksid=p2060353.m2763.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

Wish I'd seen the comments about them being knock-offs first... 

"If it seems too good to be true..." 

[ElectroIrradiator]

Haven't opened mine yet, nor tested it. But I am quite impressed by the handiwork of the people involved if this is not the real thing. The packaging certainly seemed spot on.

Aaanyway, I am not too concerned given the price, and the fact that I wouldn't have bought a genuine one at full retail anyway. At least not right now...

[TheSteve]

If you think about what can be made in china for a low price it kind of makes this product ideal to ripoff. The normal retail price is insane so investing decent money into a fake still means they are making a huge profit when selling them for 100 bucks.

I offered one of the ebay sellers 40 dollars shipped for one - which is probably still more then they should be selling for. I encourage others to do the same.

[Swake]

And what if this is something like a 'first test batch'. It might have been this was never intended to be sold. It might have been produced for testing and validation purposes of high volume mfg process of the definitive design. Or to be reviewed by some beta-testers before a go for production is provided.

Ok there are differences, and the most remarkable is that the Agilent name is not written in their specific font. but on the other hand so many components look exactly the same on both boards.

It might make sense to copy this interface as a lot of us are looking for this thing, it however does not make sense to copy it with so much attention to really small details and then making errors such as not putting conductive paint within the case.

[dadler]

In the name of science, I just submitted a semi-low best offer on the deliberate clone version:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/82357B-GPIB-USB-Interface-Compatible-AGILENT-82357B-new-version-/251692772284

If my offer is accepted, I'll post pictures of the internals of both units side-by-side.

[rfeecs]

And what if this is something like a 'first test batch'. It might have been this was never intended to be sold. It might have been produced for testing and validation purposes of high volume mfg process of the definitive design. Or to be reviewed by some beta-testers before a go for production is provided.

Ok there are differences, and the most remarkable is that the Agilent name is not written in their specific font. but on the other hand so many components look exactly the same on both boards.

It might make sense to copy this interface as a lot of us are looking for this thing, it however does not make sense to copy it with so much attention to really small details and then making errors such as not putting conductive paint within the case.

The genuine unit was made in 2007.  The eBay unit has chip date codes of 2013.  So it couldn't be a prototype.

[dadler]

In the name of science, I just submitted a semi-low best offer on the deliberate clone version:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/82357B-GPIB-USB-Interface-Compatible-AGILENT-82357B-new-version-/251692772284

If my offer is accepted, I'll post pictures of the internals of both units side-by-side.

Offer accepted... hehe. I'll post pictures when I receive the overt clone.