Flir E4 in Australia.

[aargee]

Hi all,

I'm in Australia and after initially watching Mike's review on the E4 and the tear down video (not withstanding the excellent reverse engineering that is currently going on! -  ), I have decided to purchase an E4 for my test equipment collection, it would be my first "brand new" piece of serious test equipment since I bought a new analogue multimeter from Dick Smith in about 1979!!! All my other stuff is second hand, freebies, dumpster retrieves and hand-me-downs .

I'm happy to pay the US$1000 that the E4s are going for in the US, even a hundred or so dollars more for an Aus supplied version but can't come at the A$1600 that seems to be the go here.

I'm just wanting it as a hobbyist, so there's GST payable as well. Is there a cheaper option out there that I'm missing? Are there discounts to be had (I doubt on such a new piece of gear) or maybe mentioning the forum  to dealers here? Are there other fellow Aussies interested as well?

- Rob.

[Psi]

I dunno if it's still the case but last time i looked Amazon wouldn't ship any electronics to AUS/NZ.
The only things we could buy from Amazon were Books/Music/DVDs.


I've been seriously considering getting an E4 too (New Zealand).

tequipment have it listed and ship internationally.
I dummy filled-out the form to check shipping cost and it was US$40 FedEx to NZ which isn't too bad.

http://www.tequipment.net/FLIRE4.html

All up its like 995.00  + 40 = US$1035   or  NZ$1249   or AUS$1080
But 50/50 chance it gets hit with import GST which entering NZ, would be an extra 15% so NZ$1436
Dunno about import GST in AUS
Plus like 2% on top of that for Credit card 'offshore service margin'
EDIT: EEVBlog can get 6% discount at tequipment if you enter the code (see the tequipment thread for details)

[EEVblog]

tequipment have it listed and ship internationally.
I dummy filled-out the form to check shipping cost and it was US$40 FedEx to NZ which isn't too bad.

Remember that Tequipment give a 6% EEVblog discount.

[Psi]

True, i found them goggling for E4 and didn't make the connection.

From memory they require extra info for fraud prevention reasons on intl orders.
I forget what exactly but something like a photo of ya credit card statement or and some ID.

[ixfd64]

One thing you could do is to use a mail forwarding service that's based in the U.S. Alternatively, you can have the camera shipped to someone you trust that lives in the U.S., and have that person forward it to you.

[TMM]

^Yep, if all else fails i have used priceusa.com.au to proxy ship from USA before - good service.

[Shock]

^Yep, if all else fails i have used priceusa.com.au to proxy ship from USA before - good service.

http://www.shipito.com/

Better service, cheaper and faster.

[amyk]

One thing you could do is to use a mail forwarding service that's based in the U.S. Alternatively, you can have the camera shipped to someone you trust that lives in the U.S., and have that person forward it to you.

Be careful with ITAR though... these are export-restricted products.

[mikeselectricstuff]

One thing you could do is to use a mail forwarding service that's based in the U.S. Alternatively, you can have the camera shipped to someone you trust that lives in the U.S., and have that person forward it to you.

Be careful with ITAR though... these are export-restricted products.

The only restriction on these AIUI is you can't ship to specific terrist countries - it's only the >111,000 pixel (? or 60fps?) that needs an export license to ship outside the US.
However a shipping forwarding service may get spooked by any mention of export issues on any paperwork, or if they notice the small "This product is subject to US export regulations" text on the end of the box.

[aargee]

I read from another post from Evan at Tequipment themselves that they don't export Flir. I don't know if this is still the case -

Also I know you guys dont like our international credit card requirements.  Well we dont either.  If you use paypal internationally most of these requirements go away. 

Note we cant ship Fluke, Tek, or Flir overseas.

So I might have to try PriceUSA or Shipito.

[Psi]

That sucks, Tequipment really need to get their shit together and write a proper website.
It's not acceptable to have products orderable then come back after and say "actually no, you cant have that".

[all_repair]

Amazon also does not ship this out of USA.  Anyone already has success through a forwarder?  Fluke themocam was selling cheaper in Asia than in the West, but FLIR is reverse, and E4 is not available in SGP.

[mikeselectricstuff]

One thing you could do is to use a mail forwarding service that's based in the U.S. Alternatively, you can have the camera shipped to someone you trust that lives in the U.S., and have that person forward it to you.

Be careful with ITAR though... these are export-restricted products.

Pretty sure the E4 isn't ITAR. It only does 9fps.

AIUI It isn't just a case of "in" or "out" - different kit comes under different sections with different restrictions. AIUI the main categories are "export license and end-user agreement paperwork needed" and "Don't ship to dodgy countries".
I'm not clear about whether the recent-ish (2009?) relaxation on cams < 111,000 pixels just moves them to a different category, or puts them outside the scope of any regs. Maybe someone who knows more could enlighten us....
There are some links to some docs earlier in the teardown thread but they are a lot to read through.  I have seen some info on reseller sites that is definitely wrong, so that info, although often short and concise, may not be up to date. And of course different countries have different regs, to complicate things further....

[SeanB]

On the export restricted front I was looking at a swimming pool cleaner box last week, and there it was written that it is an export prohibited item........ WTF is restricted about it, it sucks water so that you do not need to stand at the side of the pool every week ( or get the gardener to do it) and clean out the dirt off the pool walls. Are the pool cleaners going to rise up and suck the life out of people if they get out of the country?

[ixfd64]

I could be wrong, but I'm under the impression that ITAR only applies to commercial exports, not personal transfers.

[SeanB]

Applies to all, there is a reseller doing time for simply selling a battery that was usable in amongst other things a prohibited export.

[all_repair]

It is more likely a regional price differentiation protection than security restriction issue.  Fluke is hitting the Asia market very hard with their toy cam.  I almost bought it few months back, and even better if I bought from China which is selling at half the price than other part of the world.  FLIR is just giving the whole game away to FLUKE in the lower end cam area in Asia.

[SeanB]

Made in China, sold in China and never reached the USA and ITAR then does not apply. Only affects those who sell and ship from USA.

[mikeselectricstuff]

Made in China, sold in China and never reached the USA and ITAR then does not apply. Only affects those who sell and ship from USA.

According to the label, E4 is made in Estonia.

[Psi]

More info on the potential export issues..

I emailed a local NZ Flir agent ( http://www.shopflir.co.nz ) and asked for a price on the E4.
Also asked how closely they could match the US$995 price + shipping

This is the reply i got...
The E4 camera is $1900 NZD + GST.  This is a delivered to your door price.  With this warranty and support is through us in New Zealand.

We can certainly match the US price at $995 USD for pick up in America.  We can also organise the United States Department of Commerce Export Licence for the camera which is $400 USD and freight which would be  around $120 USD.

I'm tempted to email back and say..
You don't need the Export licence, thermal cameras like the E4 (less than 9fps) are covered under ECCN 6A993 and are NLR (no licence required)
I also don't need the warranty, i plan to open it up and modify the unit to output full framerate and resolution which will void the warranty anyway.

Please issue me a new quote without the Licence and Warranty costs.


I think intl mail forwarders maybe the best option, but i'm a bit weary that they might have issues too.

[all_repair]

I just got my quote this morning too, SGD 1700 + 7% GST, self pick up, pay on pick up, 3-4 week lead time.  And it is from a more competitive distributor of FLIR in Singapore.

[Psi]

About the Exx series but mentions 9fps and NLR (no licence required).
http://www.flir.com/uploadedFiles/Thermography_Americas/Service_and_Support/E%20Series.pdf

[aargee]

Then there's this price... (see attached image)

although I need an opinion on this MegaDepot bunch before I'd consider using them in a PriceUSA/Shipito type arrangement.

[nowlan]

However a shipping forwarding service may get spooked by any mention of export issues on any paperwork, or if they notice the small "This product is subject to US export regulations" text on the end of the box.

If the camera is sub 9 fps, why dont they put NLR on the box?
Is it just embargo and corporate policy?

---
From Flir Fact Sheet.

Classification Information:
Because these products operate at a slow rate (9Hz), they are controlled for export under US Department
of Commerce (DOC), Export Administration Regulations (EAR), Export Control Classification Number
(ECCN) 6A993. They may be exported under ECCN 6A993, NLR (No License Required) to all countries
except terrorist supporting countries (Country Group E:1), unless otherwise prohibited.*

Permanent / Temporary Exports:
These cameras may be shipped NLR to all countries except terrorist supporting countries (Country Group
E:1), unless otherwise prohibited.* Additionally, they may not be used in the design, development,
production, or use of nuclear, chemical or biological weapons or missiles.

---
* 1) No denied parties (screening can be conducted at www.epls.gov).
2) Not to be used in the design, development, production or use of nuclear, chemical or biological
weapons or missiles.
3) No trade with embargoed countries (Cuba, Iran, North Korea). Sudan & Syria -- It is FLIR’s
Corporate Policy to not trade with any terrorist supporting nations.

---
Would the fact sheet be enough attached to package?

[kaz911]

Should be enough - .. I use www.myus.com and they are a PITA about export control now. Even my RAID controller BATTERY is getting  ECCN verification. Every time they do ECCN lookup - it takes a week IF I have sent them the right materials. Else...

So can someone please link in the URL for the flir fact sheet.