Flir E4 in Australia.

[Fraser]

There are regional sales restrictions on many items in the world. You are up against both this and the US restrictions and processes placed on the sale of thermal cameras.

The official response to your situation.....buy from your local agent and avoid all these issues.

[Psi]

yep, i've checked out the local agent, they quoted NZ$1900+gst (NZ$2185)

Compared to US$995 + $80 shipping = US$1075 convert to NZ dollars = NZ$1302
With a 50% chance it will get pinged for GST when entering NZ, which would push it up to NZ$1497

So the local agent price is between NZ$688 and NZ$883 more expensive depending on the mood of the customs gods with regard to GST

In my opinion that's far too much local agent profit, $200 more would be resonable

I do not intend to break the rule, more accurately do not want to risk the USD 1K recklessly.  I just threw away $100 on some inkjet ink refill that my China forwarder refused to ship to my place.

Yeah, i understand.

[ixfd64]

You could always ask a trusted forum member to be your middleman.

[aargee]

yep, i've checked out the local agent, they quoted NZ$1900+gst (NZ$2185)

Compared to US$995 + $80 shipping = US$1075 convert to NZ dollars = NZ$1302
With a 50% chance it will get pinged for GST when entering NZ, which would push it up to NZ$1497

So the local agent price is between NZ$688 and NZ$883 more expensive depending on the mood of the customs gods with regard to GST

In my opinion that's far too much local agent profit, $200 more would be reasonable

My thoughts exactly, I don't mind supporting a local dealer for $100-200 but the differences in price between the US and locally here is too much to swallow. A$500 for local support on a US$1000 device? Really?

[Psi]

You could always ask a trusted forum member to be your middleman.

This did occur to me, but it would require them to bend the truth on the customs form.
Saying "camera" instead of "thermal camera" for example.
And i'm pretty sure they would be the person getting in trouble if the package got intercepted for whatever reason.
Can't really expect someone else to take that sort of risk.

[Pinkus]

I already got my E4. This is a really huge package. No chance that this passes customs as a camera. You can bet they will check it out.
I can send you one from Germany. If you are interested send me a PM and I will check pricing. I also might repack it if you like.... without the flir box and case it would be a small package.
Peter

[Psi]

I already got my E4. This is a really huge package. No chance that this passes customs as a camera. You can bet they will check it out.
I can send you one from Germany. If you are interested send me a PM and I will check pricing. I also might repack it if you like.... without the flir box and case it would be a small package.
Peter

Could label it correctly as a "thermal camera" if it was coming from Germany.
As far as i know the problem is only getting out of the USA?

[mikeselectricstuff]

You could always ask a trusted forum member to be your middleman.

This did occur to me, but it would require them to bend the truth on the customs form.
Saying "camera" instead of "thermal camera" for example.

"Camera" is an entirely accurate description, just less precise.

And i'm pretty sure they would be the person getting in trouble if the package got intercepted for whatever reason.

Assuming they had their own address on it..

[Psi]

Christmas is probably a good time to be posting stuff.

Mail centers are so overloaded with packages they don't have time to check everything thoroughly.
Although that's mostly regular airmail postage, a dedicated courier (like DHL,FEDEX,UPS) wouldn't be that overloaded.

[amyk]

There's an uncanny resemblance of all this to using proxies for bypassing firewalls...

[all_repair]

Maybe I should get 10pcs from Aliexpress at USD 3.25K, hack them, and resell at 995usd to the rest.  Premium for the risk and the work.   

There are indeed some Korean and China competitors emerging on the low end.  None emerges on Taobao yet.   To pay double at USD 2K, if there is Asian made at 500, I may as well get one now and then upgrade 3 more times in future.

[all_repair]

VT02 Fluke are selling at half the price in China.  If E4 following suit, it should be selling at USD 450 in single qty in China and that is still more expensive than VT02 selling in China.  Many brands have China special version that many time of lesser quality with parts made and sourced in China.  It is difficult to tell.  For me, with Aliexpress Escrow protection, this deal is lesser risk than trying to beat the US custom.

[Psi]

The Aliexpress listing is a scam.

yep, with 0 previous sales its definitely dodgy. I wouldn't touch it

[ixfd64]

I've never ordered from AliExpress, but I would also avoid that site. It has a somewhat poor reputation on another forum that I regularly visit.

[Psi]

oh, i've used aliexprss to buy stuff under $200 many times (maybe 10+) and i've never been scammed.
One time something didn't turn up but they sent a replacement at their cost

I only order from people on there with plenty of precious sales and feedback.

[kaz911]

Many of the AliExpress listings show artificially low prices - and when you then purchase -the seller comes back and says "price is wrong - please pay extra" - at which point you can then complain and if your are lucky you get a refund.

But AliExpress does not to "card refunds" - they resend you the money - after ?? days - so if your local currency is different - you have a risk of your currency changing. That cost me about $100 at one point... I could also have gained a bit but Murphy is always present. - If they had done a card refund - you would have gotten all back with no risk. AliExpress support never answers any emails - and does not give a S**T.

So stay as far from AliExpress as you possibly can.

[mikeselectricstuff]

Depending on the  rules in your country, you also have the option of a credit-card chargeback on the basis of goods not received. Not sure whether this covers currency fluctuations.

[kaz911]

Depending on the  rules in your country, you also have the option of a credit-card chargeback on the basis of goods not received. Not sure whether this covers currency fluctuations.

I thought I would get a credit card refund.. but no... Hard to argue after they "refunded" as their support never answers.

[all_repair]

I have much better luck on aliexpress than on ebay lately.  Some sellers on aliexpress has no stock, and use that as an door opener.  You at least get back the money if you do not "accept" and the benefits of doubts go to the buyers mostly.  The exchange rate lost that is the problem created by the bankers, not Aliexpress or sellers.  I see it as a necessary friction.  Once the seller build up the ratings, they would do many things to protect their ratings.  I was offered refund for events later I found to be my problem.  And some sellers do not intend to make money at the beginning, and even run them at a small loss to build rating.  But always always check and check, and test very well and long, and accept after the burn in.  File immediately if in doubts.  On ebay, I was cheated more by ebay on the money back protection scheme than the seller.  Because one of the sellers who has a 99% know all the trick to drag and to trick buyers into not able to file or win claims.

 I think these China stock if real shall appear on Taobao soon.  Those available now on Taobao are imported stock as they are about SGP price.  I shall keep the forum inform.   It is a paradise on Taobao if you know how to shop.  They have many levels to protect the buyers, and the sellers normally run  around in the day, and do customer service till 1-2am, and if they do not get Full Positive, they shall offer refund immediately even the fault is not theirs.  Of course, some school fees needed to be paid at the beginning but it is worth it.

[kaz911]

The exchange rate lost that is the problem created by the bankers, not Aliexpress or sellers.  I see it as a necessary friction.

It is not a problem created by the banks. It is an AliExpress issue. Had they used Credit Card refund - there would be no problems with exchange rates. But they "chose" to delay refund for 2 months and not do the credit card refund. They can do credit card refunds up to 24 months after the transaction dependent on their bank.

[all_repair]

The currency flow is tightly controlled in China.  Only few months back, non-china bank credit card can be used, and only for few selected banks.  And when there is free exchange, aliexpress china merchants shall use RMB as there is no reason to stick with USD.  So the exchange rate loss would not go away, unless your banks are absorbing the to and fro.  That is unlikely because it is a loophole waiting to be hacked by currency traders.

[aargee]

Well, I've ordered an E4 from a US company via "an agent" mentioned elsewhere in this thread.

I got an EEVBlog 6% discount (I wonder who) and I've just been notified that "the company" have shipped the E4 to the agent.

So far so good... the interesting bit will be coming from the US to here through customs, although they say they have done an E40 with no problems.

I'll keep you all informed how it goes.

(Whoo... cloak and dagger    )

[Psi]

Did they notify you that they shipped it to your "proxy agent" ?
Or did they only notify you of shipment to the address you provided (which they don't know is a proxy agent) ?

I'm guessing the latter.

[all_repair]

Well, I've ordered an E4 from a US company via "an agent" mentioned elsewhere in this thread.
.....
(Whoo... cloak and dagger    )

All eyes here.  Just wondering for the billing address is did you use the agent address or a non-US address?

[aargee]

OK, my E4 has arrived at the agent in the US  , they have unpacked it inspected it, sent me photos (optional part of the process). I've paid the balance and it's all ready to be shipped from the US to here in Aus (about 6 days shipping time).

Total cost A$1182.95, the only hitch may be customs but it falls below the GST $1000 threshold for item value.