first time buyers oscilloscope analysis paralysis help!!!!!

[njkmonty]

i am happy to delay purchase by a month or so if its worth it,
but which frequency with they have 50 -100 in the 1000x range
and 1-2 GS/s  models and some with waveform generators
is it better to get the 50Mhz keysight  than a 200Mhz siglet?

which particular one were you suggesting?
https://www.triotest.com.au/store/233-keysight-1000-x-series

[Mr. Scram]

i am happy to delay purchase by a month or so if its worth it,
but which frequency with they have 50 -100 in the 1000x range
and 1-2 GS/s  models and some with waveform generators
is it better to get the 50Mhz keysight  than a 200Mhz siglet?

which particular one were you suggesting?
https://www.triotest.com.au/store/233-keysight-1000-x-series

It's possible to unlock certain models so they have a higher bandwidth. It may be worth looking into. If you're trying to find your Fluke I'd probably shy away from the oriental options but be prepared to back it up with some budget.

[Fungus]

i am happy to delay purchase by a month or so if its worth it,
but which frequency with they have 50 -100 in the 1000x range
and 1-2 GS/s  models and some with waveform generators

which particular one were you suggesting?
https://www.triotest.com.au/store/233-keysight-1000-x-series

They're hackable to unlock extra bandwidth/features: https://www.eevblog.com/forum/blog/eevblog-978-keysight-1000x-hacking/

(used to be you had to swap a couple of resistors on the PCB but now there's a firmware hack)

is it better to get the 50Mhz keysight  than a 200Mhz siglet?

For your usage case? Yes. 50Mhz is plenty and the Keysight is awesome.

[GeorgeOfTheJungle]

Awesome but in single shot mode the orientals are 14x better because its memory depth is only 1MB (mebiByte?) and the "orientals" have 14MB or more.

[nctnico]

Isn't the Keysight 1000X series limited to 50kpoints of memory?

[nfmax]

The EDU models are limited to 100kpts maximum, the others are 1Mpt maximum. https://literature.cdn.keysight.com/litweb/pdf/5992-3484EN.pdf?id=3019454. They all have >= 50,000 waveforms/s update rate, which makes quite a difference if you are looking at 'real world' audio signals.

[Fungus]

They all have >= 50,000 waveforms/s update rate, which makes quite a difference if you are looking at 'real world' audio signals.

They also have real segmented memory so it can make a lot better use of the 1Mb than the Asians can by only grabbing the interesting stuff.

Plus: The OP has no need for anything digital so isn't going to need to capture long sequences of non-periodic signals.

[nctnico]

They all have >= 50,000 waveforms/s update rate, which makes quite a difference if you are looking at 'real world' audio signals.

They also have real segmented memory so it can make a lot better use of the 1Mb than the Asians can by only grabbing the interesting stuff.

Plus: The OP has no need for anything digital so isn't going to need to capture long sequences of non-periodic signals.

Show me a scope which doesn't have segmented memory nowadays.

[Fungus]

Isn't the Keysight 1000X series limited to 50kpoints of memory?

No. They have 1 Mpts (per channel?)

[blacksheeplogic]

The tone/comments from the OP comments sugests they just trolling now.

well bugger me Im still on the fence!

Don't expect to come away with a clear answer...  this is a nest of hornets. 

[njkmonty]

hey  blacksheeplogic!   do i need to upgrade to keysight?  or will the siglent be more than adequate?

[0culus]

hey  blacksheeplogic!   do i need to upgrade to keysight?  or will the siglent be more than adequate?

Not the person you're referring to, but here's my 2 cents. Get the best tools you can afford. It will always save you money in the long run. Here at home, I have only analog 'scopes (Tek 7104 and 7904A mainframes are the centerpiece of my bench) but the work lab has a Keysight MSO-X 6k series instrument (decidedly not an entry level 'scope as it goes well north of 30 kilobucks with options); there really is something to the responsiveness of the ASIC-driven display and controls. The baby Keysight has the same megazoom ASIC. It's the only thing on the market that offers the same level of immediacy as running an analog 'scope. Even other high end stuff can't compete with that.

At the end of the day, regardless of what special sauce any brand may bring to the table, having an o-scope is better than no o-scope. Get the best tool you can afford and have fun with it. 

[njkmonty]

thanks 0culus,, just got off the phone to guy who repairs oscilloscopes and said for my purposes dont buy a new cheapy, but get an anaolgue
tek 2225 2235 or 465   

his converstion was quite convincing

[BravoV]

thanks 0culus,, just got off the phone to guy who repairs oscilloscopes and said for my purposes dont buy a new cheapy, but get an anaolgue
tek 2225 2235 or 465   

his converstion was quite convincing

So what are you waiting for ? Go grab them.

[njkmonty]

he doesnt  have any  , just his suggestion, one that i hadnt really considered.   

[0culus]

thanks 0culus,, just got off the phone to guy who repairs oscilloscopes and said for my purposes dont buy a new cheapy, but get an anaolgue
tek 2225 2235 or 465   

his converstion was quite convincing

Well, you seemed quite adamant about not wanting to go the secondhand analog route in the OP so I didn't really push it....but since you asked, here's another 2 cents.   

You first should understand that there's always a chance of needing to repair old test equipment...however it can be done and shouldn't dissuade you from trying them out. And between this forum and the TekScopes mailing list, there's tons of folks who are willing to help you out finding and repairing. Plus there's a lot of lessons to be learned from understanding the circuits. Service manuals are available on the internet...you won't be able to do that with anything modern.

From a practical standpoint, I really think it's valuable to learn how to run an analog scope. Especially something like a 465 that doesn't have any modern niceties like cursors...it forces you to engage your brain and really think about what you're doing. Then you can pick up a digital scope with a far greater understanding of what you're doing and appreciation for how much work it saves you.

[tautech]

thanks 0culus,, just got off the phone to guy who repairs oscilloscopes and said for my purposes dont buy a new cheapy, but get an anaolgue
tek 2225 2235 or 465   

his converstion was quite convincing

Really ? 
OK, another living in the last century.

Really that's BS  as modern equipment is extremely reliable and comes with a neat feature....a warranty !

[tautech]

From a practical standpoint, I really think it's valuable to learn how to run an analog scope. Especially something like a 465 that doesn't have any modern niceties like cursors...it forces you to engage your brain and really think about what you're doing. Then you can pick up a digital scope with a far greater understanding of what you're doing and appreciation for how much work it saves you.

This is misguided too as you don't need features ON with a DSO for them to give you exactly the info you get from a CRO.
95% of my DSO use is with measurements OFF.

[0culus]

So? What’s the point of a digital instrument if you don’t want to use automatic measurements and statistics and things? I’m just providing another perspective. Take it or leave it. The guy asked so I told him what I think.

At the end of the day, it sounds like the OP is more interested in building things than maintaining old test equipment and that’s fine. He should purchase accordingly.

[scatterandfocus]

I was in the same position very recently that you are in now.  People who work on tube amps and such tend to recommend getting an analog scope, partly because they can be had for very little money or sometimes free and partly because analog scopes have a smooth and responsive display that is nice for audio.  Dave (the owner of this site) recommended to beginners to get a analog scope to start with, because they can be had for little money and because they are simpler to use as a beginner, having all physical controls, without alot of advanced functions getting in the way.  And the thing with some of the old analog test gear is that it was built really well, to be repairable, along with service manuals including schematics being produced from the manufacturers, like the old classic tube amps.  Check out what Fender was using in their lab:  http://tone-lizard.com/fender-laboratory/  A 4.5 Mhz analog scope, which is pretty dang lowly according to today's standards.  But Fender designed, built, and serviced some of the greatest guitar amps in all of history, still not surpassed today with all the advanced technology available.  I guess that is 'last century'. 

Being a noob myself to all of this, I can only recommend a couple of things:  Get yourself a set of cheap probes (~$20 for a 100 Mhz set) from ebay, or whichever probes are recommended around here, for trying out whichever analog scope you decide to get.  If you buy from ebay, be patient throughout and be courteous to sellers, but don't be a pushover if you run into problems.  Ask the seller questions about the functional condition before buying, letting the seller know that you are looking for a fully working scope.  You may still run into problems (I definitely did), but in every single case the seller was willing to work things out, being reasonable to more than reasonable.   Good luck.

[Mr. Scram]

Can you repair a broken oscilloscope with the tools you have? A quick look in the TEA thread shows they need repairs quite a bit. I'm not sure Dave still feels the same way about analogue oscilloscopes. They're a worthwhile experience but if you have to choose a digital oscilloscope is more useful in almost every regard.

[tautech]

Nearly 5 years ago Dave said this:

If you want (or need) the fancy-shmancy math stuff, logic analyzing, protocol-sniffing you want a modern DSO/MDO, but prepare to spend some serious money as well.

The huge difference between DSO's and CRO's is the ability to capture a waveform. Everything else is a bonus.

Like Dave once said about analog scopes in a video: It's a must have in any decent lab! Pick one up!

I don't recall saying that.
People very often mis-interpret what I have said about analog scopes.
A CRO is a much better option for a beginner than a "toy" handheld DSO if you want a general purpose scope. But now that serious variable intensity displays can be had for sub $400, there is no contest, you only need a DSO. For all but the most extreme niche cases, a CRO will sit on your shelf and gather dust next to a DSO. The game has changed a lot in the last few years.
If I had to pick only one scope to have in my lab, the best analog scope ever made, or an old Rigol DS1052E, I'd pick the Rigol in a heart beat.

5 years later a DS1052E is considered seriously outdated.

Those that want to still live in the CRO past should !

[njkmonty]

A Rigol it is!

thanks tautech!

[tautech]

A Rigol it is!

thanks tautech!

Be my guest but do more homework first.
Even back in those days 5 years ago there were issues in sampling and interpolation that are revealed in dots mode and still exist to this day.

[njkmonty]

my last response was tounge in cheek

I guess a part of me likes the new flashing modern thing, and the other hears the rational around a quality used one.
I am currently binge watching Daves many scope vids, which isnt helping me nail one down either!