First picture on EEVblog of the new R&S MXO4 series oscilloscope :)

[jjoonathan]

Lively FFTs with spectrum analyzer controls are amazing when sniffing around for a signal that has been highly attenuated or superimposed on another. Even at low frequency the extreme dynamic range of spectrum analysis is a very useful complement to time domain capabilities. That's what brought me to R&S scopes, the MXO clearly takes it to the next level, and I've been sorely tempted by the MXO4 even though I really need to wait for the MXO6 (or whatever it winds up being called).

[shabaz]

Hi! I think even non-regular-users of standalone spectrum analyzers will frequently find themselves using the SA capability on the MXO, they will pick up the benefits of it quickly. It is easier to use than older FFT functions in 'scopes, and different from the swept spectrum analyzers in terms of speed and the view it provides.

There's some video capture of it here. Often it can be challenging to see from the oscilloscope trace if there even is a problem (and where it could be originating from), but the spectral view reveals it.
(from time 9min24sec):

[EEVblog]

I can't comment on future promotions or bundle options, but I can tell you that the MXO4 is an entirely new generation of oscilloscopes and is about as "future proof" as you can get in terms of performance and support across the entire T&M industry.  We spent many years developing the MXO and its custom ASIC (which is where most of the cutting edge specs come from), and we are adding significant functions and features with each new release.
Obviously, I'm just a little biased here, but the MXO is the first oscilloscope I've been really excited about in a long time

The Keysight Megazoom IV ASIC is now over 12 years old 
Not even a sniff of the Megazoom V...

i still haven't done the teardown of the MXO 

[EEVblog]

Would this scope be a good choice for me? I figured it'd be good to ask here instead starting another "which scope?" thread.

I work on embedded firmware, these days smart-home devices operating in 900 MHz band. My office has DS1104Zs for us firmware guys and an older 3 GHz Tek MDO with a built-in spectrum analyzer claimed by our EE, but I'd like to have my own bit of kit. I'd prefer at least 200 MHz of bandwidth with an upgrade path to 1+ GHz, 4 analog channels, and I2C / SPI decoding. I2S would be nice too. I admittedly don't know whether a built-in SA is worth the premium for me; I don't get enough opportunity with the one at work to become proficient.

Nothing comes close to the MXO4 in terms of integrated spectrum analyser capability. It's pretty much a world apart from other scopes.

In terms of budget, I'd feel great at $5k USD, good at $10k, and stretched thin by $20k. Before the MXO4 had been announced, I'd been looking at a Keysight MSOX3204G. The MXO4 out-specs it in a lot of ways and has a SA, but the MSO and protocol-decoding options drive the price up to $14k, and at that point I'm sorely tempted just to buy the bundle. At the same time my ill-nurtured thrifty side is encouraging me to seriously consider what I truly need and budget accordingly. The dream would be to pick up an MXO4 at the base price and purchase a promotional bundle of options for a song later on, but that might just be a dream. Any advice? I'm open to suggestions for other scopes too.

Talk to your local dealer, they might be able to do something for you in terms of bundling?
I'm not sure the Keysight 3000 would outspec the MXO in anything?

[zhoneybee]

...
Talk to your local dealer, they might be able to do something for you in terms of bundling?
I'm not sure the Keysight 3000 would outspec the MXO in anything?

It doesn't, but it does include everything I know that I need for less than the MXO4 with the options I'd want. The specs were adequate (more than adequate, really) when I'd first considered it as an option, and they still are.

Good point with the local dealer, I'll investigate.

[nctnico]

If your use case includes protocol decoding, then you will want deep memory as well. Keep in mind that the actual memory depth in normal use cases is 1/4th at most of what it says on the sticker on the Megazoom based Keysight scopes.

[2N3055]

If your use case includes protocol decoding, then you will want deep memory as well. Keep in mind that the actual memory depth in normal use cases is 1/4th at most of what it says on the sticker on the Megazoom based Keysight scopes.

That is very true, but...

Megazoom extracts data for decoding directly from input by use of comparator. It does not convert analog data to digital.
So when you are decoding, even if signal looks very bad in analog domain, decode will work just fine.
That is the reason why Keysight users don't complain so much about long memory when decoding...
It is not as good as proper long memory scope but not as bad as it might seem..

But anyways, MXO4 is much more modern scope. Only thing that is working for Megazooms is that MXO4 still don't have all the same  protocols   supported...

[nctnico]

If your use case includes protocol decoding, then you will want deep memory as well. Keep in mind that the actual memory depth in normal use cases is 1/4th at most of what it says on the sticker on the Megazoom based Keysight scopes.

That is very true, but...

Megazoom extracts data for decoding directly from input by use of comparator. It does not convert analog data to digital.
So when you are decoding, even if signal looks very bad in analog domain, decode will work just fine.

My experience is different. One of the things lacking is an adjustable hysterisis which can mess up decoding on Keysight scopes.

[2N3055]

If your use case includes protocol decoding, then you will want deep memory as well. Keep in mind that the actual memory depth in normal use cases is 1/4th at most of what it says on the sticker on the Megazoom based Keysight scopes.

That is very true, but...

Megazoom extracts data for decoding directly from input by use of comparator. It does not convert analog data to digital.
So when you are decoding, even if signal looks very bad in analog domain, decode will work just fine.

My experience is different. One of the things lacking is an adjustable hysterisis which can mess up decoding on Keysight scopes.

3000T works much better than old 7000...
But still I agree with you, there are better scopes for the money today..unless you specifically need some feature in which case that is what matters..

[Sighound36]

I have the 1.5Ghz model coming later in the week, we'll see how it stacks up against the HDO6000B, the introductory deals R&S are offering currently makes this a genuine proper high end scope for semi sensible outlay, although the probe costs maybe the sticking point.

However I am keen to see the FFT in action, as I have always felt R&S offer the best RF abilities of the big four, although Keysight has some quality instruments here as well.

Just in the process of acquiring an FSW so a few more members of the bench are now from Munich!

[EEVblog]

the introductory deals R&S are offering currently makes this a genuine proper high end scope for semi sensible outlay, although the probe costs maybe the sticking point.

Third party probes?

[TopQuark]

A bit weird that a 12-bit scope of this calibre does not have power analysis.

Is it on the development roadmap, and is it going to be a paid option? Kinda sucks if you get the all included bundle deal today, but have to pay again for power analysis down the road.

[Sighound36]

Hi Dave

My thoughts on this, people who are going to purchase one of these fine scopes imho primarily for the low noise capability as well the FFT performance

For that performance to be fully realised I would suggest that correctly R&S interfaced probes would give a better result although always happy to be proved wrong especially in the wallet department!

That said I did have  a demonstration hew micsig fibre optic probe a week or so back and its a far more preferable option that Lecroys offering , plus its pretty darn good as well accuracy wise

I feel it will come down to the option & probe costs for the person purchasing the scope

Currently my Lecroy probe count stands at 22 so to swap maybe cost prohibitive

Yes you can make some respectable DIY probes that would work no question, although I would suspect that the majority of potential purchases will opt for the factory options

Will also take into account that its new product and they have been making firmware changes regularly to keep onto of the teething troubles also its not like Keysights MXR failed at starting gate damp squib.
R&S being very proactive with this unit imho

The MX04 is due Friday so will report over the weekend

[tv84]

The MX04 is due Friday so will report over the weekend

Must confess that I have high expectations regarding your MXO4 vs LeCroy comparisons.

[pdenisowski]

A bit weird that a 12-bit scope of this calibre does not have power analysis.

Is it on the development roadmap, and is it going to be a paid option?

Yes, power analysis is on the MXO4 roadmap and is being actively worked on right now.

Question:  are there any particular features or functions you'd like in power analysis and/or do you have a list of requirements?  We're very interested

Edit:  yes, it will be a paid option, similar to our other oscilloscopes that support this (K31 option)

https://scdn.rohde-schwarz.com/ur/pws/dl_downloads/dl_common_library/dl_brochures_and_datasheets/pdf_1/Option_sheet_-_RTx-K31__power_analysis_v1.10.pdf

But again, we're interested in hearing feedback about what you'd like / need in a power analysis option.  If you post (or PM) your feedback, I can guarantee that our product management team will see it

[shabaz]

I have a suggestion, I hope it is useful; maybe it could be interesting as part of K31 to have an app to perform double pulse testing.  The waveform generator has more than enough performance for this.
It would be neat if the app could automatically show the inductance, as well as turn-on time and reverse recovery, as either measurements, or in different colours or different windows. Basically, the problem this would solve is that it would become a handy app to solve inductance, saturation, diode and MOSFET measurements. It could be called a "Semiconductor Testbed" or "Semiconductor Efficiency" app (even though it would also provide inductor measurements) especially if more features were added to the app in future.
This can be done without K31 today, but would require AWG capability to construct the double pulse, and would probably end up using all the math channels depending on how much of it was desired to be automated on the display. I don't entirely have a full idea currently regarding the best way for such an app's workflow or display the results, but at first thought it seems like a useful problem to solve.

Also, as a benefit to all users (not just K31), it would be nice if the harmonics feature could trickle down to a general harmonic distortion measurement capability, along with the remote control commands for it, because there are uses beyond power analysis tasks for that, i.e. kill two birds with one stone. It would be great for quick audio analysis. Incidentally, remote control commands to access the spectrum trace would be neat too (currently it requires file transfer).

Anyway, I hope these ideas are useful.

[TopQuark]

Another thing that could be really interesting for power analysis could be magnetics characterization (B-H curve).

Say you have to characterize a ferrite core, I think the gist of it would look something like: Wind two winding, primary for magnetizing the core, secondary winding for sensing.

- AWG drives primary, an amplifier is probably needed to get reasonable current into the primary to drive it into saturation.
- Measure current into primary + have user input number of pri turns and you get field strength (H), roughly.
- Measure and integrate secondary voltage + have user input number of sec turns and you get flux density (B), roughly.
- Plot in XY and you should have a BH curve.
- Stuff like saturation flux density, coercive force, remanence, hysteresis losses etc. can be calculated with maths.
- Some kind of offset/servo is probably needed to keep the secondary voltage integration in check.
- AWG allows measurement of B-H curves across different frequencies.

Something like that, idk.

[Martin72]

Do we have this on our HD ? 
Our two "great" lecroy have it.

[pdenisowski]

Anyway, I hope these ideas are useful.

Another thing that could be really interesting for power analysis could be magnetics characterization (B-H curve).

Thanks for the feedback!  I'll definitely pass them on to our scope product management team.

[Martin72]

Do we have this on our HD ? 
Our two "great" lecroy have it.

Description of the PA option :

https://teledynelecroy.com/options/productseries.aspx?mseries=441&groupid=22

[EEVblog]

Another thing that could be really interesting for power analysis could be magnetics characterization (B-H curve).

Say you have to characterize a ferrite core, I think the gist of it would look something like: Wind two winding, primary for magnetizing the core, secondary winding for sensing.

- AWG drives primary, an amplifier is probably needed to get reasonable current into the primary to drive it into saturation.
- Measure current into primary + have user input number of pri turns and you get field strength (H), roughly.
- Measure and integrate secondary voltage + have user input number of sec turns and you get flux density (B), roughly.
- Plot in XY and you should have a BH curve.
- Stuff like saturation flux density, coercive force, remanence, hysteresis losses etc. can be calculated with maths.
- Some kind of offset/servo is probably needed to keep the secondary voltage integration in check.
- AWG allows measurement of B-H curves across different frequencies.

Something like that, idk.

Even if niche, that sort of stuff looks very impressive in marketing campaings, just say'n 

[EEVblog]

For that performance to be fully realised I would suggest that correctly R&S interfaced probes would give a better result although always happy to be proved wrong especially in the wallet department!

Ultimately though, there is nothing special about same manufacturer intergated probes, they are interface nicers. It comes down the specs. A third party probe may actually have better performance than the ones from the manufacturer, but you might have to set it up maually which isn't a huge deal.

[Sighound36]

Well R&S UK delivered on their promise, early this morning UPS duly dropped off a demo bundle version of the MX04 with some probes I requested.

Just taken it out of its substanical protective packaging, not the usual R&S Germanic semi boat anchor build,but we are talking one tier above entry level for R&S, the inital feel and touch of the unit to me is a wee bit tacky. However we have to take into account of the price bracket and features/build costs and in use ability before making any comments. Size is nice its on par with the newer Siglents SDS2000 & 6000 models, Lecoy's Wave surfer HD etc. Front panel protector fits a lot easier than the afore mentioned units.

More over the weekend.

[Martin72]

Here some "true" screenshots of the power analyzer option, the menus..

[Sighound36]

Hi Martin

 I have some of the Lecroy PA option  in use if you like.