Final Questions Before I Get My First Oscilloscope

[Mechatrommer]

Also 4 channels @250 Ms/s vs 2 channels at 1 Gs/s is debatable. It entirely depends on your common use case.

i think the wiser comparison is apple to apple such as....

4ch dso                  2ch dso
1ch @ 1GSps         1ch @ 2GSps
2ch @ 500MSps     2ch @ 1GSps
4ch @ 250MSps     N/A
price?                    price?

with 4ch scope, you can probe 4 nodes lower speed, with 2ch, you need to buy another to probe 4 nodes.
if you need highest speed, inevitably one need to switch to 1ch only. 1GSps scope is that, 2GSps scope is that.
it depends on the type of your work, different people different priority, interest and habits...

[Muxr]

Also 4 channels @250 Ms/s vs 2 channels at 1 Gs/s is debatable. It entirely depends on your common use case.

i think the wiser comparison is apple to apple such as....

4ch dso                  2ch dso
1ch @ 1GSps         1ch @ 2GSps
2ch @ 500MSps     2ch @ 1GSps
4ch @ 250MSps     N/A
price?                    price?

with 4ch scope, you can probe 4 nodes lower speed, with 2ch, you need to buy another to probe 4 nodes.
if you need highest speed, inevitably one need to switch to 1ch only. 1GSps scope is that, 2GSps scope is that.
it depends on the type of your work, different people different priority, interest and habits...

I think I wrote the same thing. I am confused.

[Mechatrommer]

I think I wrote the same thing. I am confused.

you put different channel number and different sample rate side by side. its like you compared one scope is 250MSps and another is 1GSps.

[Muxr]

I think I wrote the same thing. I am confused.

you put different channel number and different sample rate side by side. its like you compared one scope is 250MSps and another is 1GSps.

Right, I figured anyone can do some simple math.

[Performa01]

No, the two channel scopes being compared all have twice the sampling rate. 2Gs/s vs DS1054z's 1Gs/s.

No. The Instek scope debated in this thread doesn't do 2GSa/s. It will do 2 x 1GSa/s though.

[Mechatrommer]

Right, I figured anyone can do some simple math.

yeah i've provided the simple math table but sometime this is not simple math, different scope different behaviour, some scope have individual ADC and capture, so sample rate is not degraded when activating more channels. so even my table above might not be correct for the 2GSps high end dso.

[Fungus]

IMHO 4 channels scopes should be standard nowadays. If you are designing circuits then you'll never go back to a 2 channel scope once you have used a 4 channel scope. I don't think I have owned a 2 channel scope in the past 10 years.

I have a 4ch scope and a 2ch scope. The number of times I use 4ch is very rare

But not "never".

(...and you have the luxury of being able to pull out a 4ch if you need one. Imagine if you didn't.)

[Muxr]

IMHO 4 channels scopes should be standard nowadays. If you are designing circuits then you'll never go back to a 2 channel scope once you have used a 4 channel scope. I don't think I have owned a 2 channel scope in the past 10 years.

I have a 4ch scope and a 2ch scope. The number of times I use 4ch is very rare

But not "never".

(...and you have the luxury of being able to pull out a 4ch if you need one. Imagine if you didn't.)

I only had a 2ch scope for a year and a half, and not once did I feel it prevented me from doing something I needed to do. There was always a workaround even in those rare occasions. You can save traces if you're triggering on the same event for instance, and just move the probes around, or you can use the external trigger.

4ch is definitely nice, there is no doubt. But it is not as indispensable as sometimes stated. I am personally more interested in the higher sampling rate than the 2 extra channels. If I can get 4ch without compromise then yes it's a no brainer, but it's not the first priority when getting a scope.

[georges80]

4 channels (or more than 2) is very useful when you have other probes.

In my case I have a tek current probe going to channel 4 on my dso. Channel 3 has a differential probe.

Channel 1/2 are 'typical' probes.

A common use scenario in my case would be channel 1 going to the signal I want to observe, channel 2 going to a trigger signal and channel 4 displaying the current probe output.

Not often I need 4 channels, but quite often I'm using 3.

Never use the FFT functionality, of no use in any of the design areas I work in.

And yeah, I've never owned a 2 channel scope.

cheers,
george.

Many of the 2ch scopes have an external trigger you can also use in your scenario. You can often adjust the trigger settings like you can on any channel (trigger level, coupling.. etc). So it can replace the normal channel you're using to trigger with.

Yeah, but I want to see that 3rd channel and record it along with the other 2 channels. Just because I trigger on the 3rd channel, doesn't mean it is ONLY a trigger.

That trigger is a complex waveform and I want to correlate it to the other 2 channels (not just trigger on it)...

cheers,
george.

[teamSMITHusa]

teamSMITHusa@, did you get an answer to your question? Did it help you to make a decision? What is it?

YES! My questions were answered, and then some. It was a tremendous help. More than I could have hoped for! Thank you all!
I went for the Rigol DS2072A. and... with the extra $$$ I saved I also got the Rigol DM3058E and a Hakko FX888D with extra tips. All for about $1300 USD.
Should be everything I need to do what I need for the good part of the next five years.
My lab is now upto speed once again! I will post a photo once the shipment arrives and everything is setup.
Once the new order comes in my lab will be based on the...
Rigol DS2072A Oscilloscope.
Rigol DM3058E Bench DMM.
HQ PS3003U 30VDC Bench Power supply.
BK Precision 4052 Function Generator.
BK Precision 1856D Frequency Counter.
Hakko FX888D & Hakko 926 Soldering stations.
Windows 7 fully loaded PC (Bluray, 32Gigs RAM, etc.)
+ a ton of older stuff (hand held DMMs, Component testers, Tools, Digital Calipers, Air Compressor, Vacuum systems, Hot air rework station, Fully ESD protected bench, optics, etc.
I'm happy and probably won't spend anything of significance for quite some time.
I will probably make the $1300 back this year by just doing small repair jobs in my spare time, and most importantly, learn a ton over the next 4 to five years.
I know to you younger EEs, think that 5 years seems like a long time, but it will fly by.
Thanks everyone. I will be contributing to the blog more too. perhaps even a video or two! wOoT!
Thanks again. Everyone is awesome! 
 

[Muxr]

teamSMITHusa@, did you get an answer to your question? Did it help you to make a decision? What is it?

YES! My questions were answered, and then some. It was a tremendous help. More than I could have hoped for! Thank you all!
I went for the Rigol DS2072A. and... with the extra $$$ I saved I also got the Rigol DM3058E and a Hakko FX888D with extra tips. All for about $1300 USD.
Should be everything I need to do what I need for the good part of the next five years.
My lab is now upto speed once again! I will post a photo once the shipment arrives and everything is setup.
Once the new order comes in my lab will be based on the...
Rigol DS2072A Oscilloscope.
Rigol DM3058E Bench DMM.
HQ PS3003U 30VDC Bench Power supply.
BK Precision 4052 Function Generator.
BK Precision 1856D Frequency Counter.
Hakko FX888D & Hakko 926 Soldering stations.
Windows 7 fully loaded PC (Bluray, 32Gigs RAM, etc.)
+ a ton of older stuff (hand held DMMs, Component testers, Tools, Digital Calipers, Air Compressor, Vacuum systems, Hot air rework station, Fully ESD protected bench, optics, etc.
I'm happy and probably won't spend anything of significance for quite some time.
I will probably make the $1300 back this year by just doing small repair jobs in my spare time, and most importantly, learn a ton over the next 4 to five years.
I know to you younger EEs, think that 5 years seems like a long time, but it will fly by.
Thanks everyone. I will be contributing to the blog more too. perhaps even a video or two! wOoT!
Thanks again. Everyone is awesome! 

Not bad, enjoy!

[teamSMITHusa]

Equipment arrived. Will post a video soon! 

[pxl]

As Muxr said it's the HMO1200 which pretty much just came out. The HMO1000 is an older series with inferior specs.

Just a bit addition, yet it seems these are almost the same scopes (even they share the manual). All the differences I've found so far:
- the max sample rate (these matter if you need 100 MHz, at 50ns it uses 500MSa, if I spot correctly Dave's video)
- the max mem depth (without advanced search function, is that matter?)
- 50 ohm input
- math formula editor
- position range
R&S®HMO1002 series ±5 Div (from center of screen) 
R&S®HMO1202 series ±15 Div (from center of screen)
- there is a fan (pretty quiet, though)

And the 1202 can be upgraded in future from 100MHz to 300MHz, that could be an important point. But basically the 1202 is just an overclocked version of the 1002. Probably I missed something, of course.

[pa3hfu]

Equipment arrived. Will post a video soon! 

Well, we like to see your video! ;-)

[ProBang2]

Equipment arrived. Will post a video soon! 

Well, we like to see your video! ;-)

+ 1   

[Nozzer]

After much examination of the various options I settled on the R&S 1222, 200MHz scope, which I am getting direct from R&S UK as a (mature) student with pod and all software included. I like the UI, which suits me as a disabled person, and the fact that I can upgrade the BW later if I choose to. I did seriously consider the Rigol 2000 series and the Keysight 2000 series, which is on special offer at the moment with all added options for the basic price, but the latter, which I was very tempted by, was much more expensive (with a maximum BW of 200MHz, also a clinching factor in favour of the R&S) and I have decided I'll buy Keysight's single channel & upgradable 33511B Arb generator next year. 10k wfs is more than adequate for me.

My biggest (culture) shock is going to be buying a suitable laptop to run the Windows OS compatible software, having used iMacs for the last 9 years. I have no idea what I need (reliability is important to me) for just running electronics related software. I'll be sticking to my iMac for everything else.

[siggi]

My biggest (culture) shock is going to be buying a suitable laptop to run the Windows OS compatible software, having used iMacs for the last 9 years.

Maybe you can try running the software under virtualization on your iMac(s)) at least to start with?

[nctnico]

My biggest (culture) shock is going to be buying a suitable laptop to run the Windows OS compatible software, having used iMacs for the last 9 years.

Maybe you can try running the software under virtualization on your iMac(s)) at least to start with?

That is the most sensible route. Virtualbox is free and runs all Windows flavours very well in a virtual machine. There really is no need to buy an extra PC to just run Windows nowadays.

[larry42]

After much examination of the various options I settled on the R&S 1222, 200MHz scope, which I am getting direct from R&S UK as a (mature) student with pod and all software included. I like the UI, which suits me as a disabled person, and the fact that I can upgrade the BW later if I choose to. I did seriously consider the Rigol 2000 series and the Keysight 2000 series, which is on special offer at the moment with all added options for the basic price, but the latter, which I was very tempted by, was much more expensive (with a maximum BW of 200MHz, also a clinching factor in favour of the R&S) and I have decided I'll buy Keysight's single channel & upgradable 33511B Arb generator next year. 10k wfs is more than adequate for me.

My biggest (culture) shock is going to be buying a suitable laptop to run the Windows OS compatible software, having used iMacs for the last 9 years. I have no idea what I need (reliability is important to me) for just running electronics related software. I'll be sticking to my iMac for everything else.

I have an R&S HMO1524. Supplied SW is useless and slow (they transfer data via ASCII). Throwing together some Python script is pretty straighforward. Also, you can run Windows via VirtualBox / VMWare, no need to buy a separate PC. TBH there are plenty of old laptops that can be had for next to nothing if you just want to run some control SW.

Othern than that the HMO series is great. Interface that's reliable, fan is very quiet, FFT mode that's seriously good for spectrum analysis and with a good UI (for a scope at least - better than any Agilent 54xxx. DSOX3k or 8k series that I've used ). Enjoy!