East Tester ET4510 LCR meter

[mawyatt]

I think the problems you've spotted could well be down to quality control and may not be intentional or even still present or various scenarios.
That said, and to your point, I have my doubts how much you can trust their quality control, "calibration" and specifications.
Let's just say, I don't think this going to be like Keithley 2000 (or insert good meter here) you buy 2nd hand, and 30 years later and it is still giving good measurements that are pretty damned accurate.

But LCR market doesn't have a well developed middle of the road as far as I can tell.
I've done a lot of digging now and I'll admit it is a lot less bleak to me today than it was a week ago.
But there isn't much information around, unlike multimeters & scopes, for example.

Basically, you either pay enough money to buy a new car or you are stuck with a lot of meh options and trying to make the best of what is around and talking about them here.
Because frankly there isn't a good definitive LCR thread even on eevblog that I could find.

Looks as if the design was implemented wrong with BNCs reversed and labeled, so maybe a "Design" QC issue.

Agree the old HP34401 and Keithley 2000 were SOTA at their time, and still hold up well today compared to the best DMMs (we have a HP and AG34401) 

Anyway, Martin72 posts shows some potential measurement issues with the ET which confirms our initial risk assessment. We had advised against this ET4510 on a PM with someone that wants to build our LCR Meter DC Bias Adapter for DC biased capacitance measurements, and recommended they get the TH2830 instead. These OEM bias adapters are expensive (the Hioki 9268 {$842}, Instek LCR-16 {$1008}), maybe we should make this a product

Best,

[mawyatt]

Some measurement comparisons are good, some slightly different (outside of specs?), and some not even close (100KHz).

Pity the results wheren't included in this thread, but measuring tens of uF at 100kHz is asking for trouble. At 100kHz a 47uF capacitor represent an impedance of 33m Ohm. Good luck trying to measure the amplitude and phase across such a small impedance. When using an LCR meter, it is important to know what the limits of the device are. No matter the price tag.

Exactly KTI (Know Thy Instrument), applicable is ALL INSTRUMENTS, including scopes

BTW one important attribute of measuring low impedances accurately is DUT test current, here the IM3536 can supply 100ma, the TH2830 67ma.

One measurement by Martin that caught our eye was a 1uF reference cap at 10KHz, and another 1uF at 100KHz.

Best,

[mawyatt]

@mawyatt:
At the end of the day, it's no different in principle(circuit) to the TH2830, for example, but why it's completely off at 100khz was the reason why I bought another one.
I wanted to find out and fix it if possible.
But time is short...

Think all these bridge type LCR meters date way back to a General Radio Instrument.

In principle agree, in implementation and detail maybe not so!!

Were you able to identify the problem area? If so, how was this corrected?

Best,

[mawyatt]

BTW another good tip for those not familiar with how these instruments behave and how they actually work, is the Kelvin clips utilized. The inexpensive ones like supplied with the ET (we have a bunch of these, mostly for DC) are all independent cables, thus any flexure or movement can and will change the cable characteristics (capacitance). We often tape these down to the work bench for better repeatability.

The better Kelvin clips are the ones with the BNC adapter fixture, like the TH26011CS (comes with TH2830), these have a single cable that extends the first ~600mm, then a breakout box with individual Hc,Hp,Lp & Lc ~300mm shielded cables to the H and L Kelvin clips. Our experience is these types have less variation in use than the single cable types, and more convenient to use.

Best,

[Martin72]

Hi,

Were you able to identify the problem area? If so, how was this corrected?

These models are available with 10khz, 20khz and 100Khz test frequencies, otherwise they are identical.
I suspect that the frequency has simply been increased without regard to the underlying circuitry.
Because up to 10khz the meter performs very well, at 1khz there is no big difference at all to all other meters I could test.
The supplied cables could also play a role.
The problem is that you don't get any documentation (circuit diagram), and the (hidden) calibration menu is not mentioned anywhere.
This makes things a bit tedious and time-consuming.

[mawyatt]

Hi,

Were you able to identify the problem area? If so, how was this corrected?

These models are available with 10khz, 20khz and 100Khz test frequencies, otherwise they are identical.
I suspect that the frequency has simply been increased without regard to the underlying circuitry.
Because up to 10khz the meter performs very well, at 1khz there is no big difference at all to all other meters I could test.
The supplied cables could also play a role.
The problem is that you don't get any documentation (circuit diagram), and the (hidden) calibration menu is not mentioned anywhere.
This makes things a bit tedious and time-consuming.

Maybe the amplifier chains weren't properly designed to handle the higher frequencies, especially at higher current levels required by low Z components? High BW amplifiers with good linearity and drive are expensive, comes with the territory!!

So basically not even a 100KHz capable LCR meter, makes one wonder about the higher frequency versions from ET??

Best,

[GnomeZA]

I've had a fair amount of discount applied to an order I created for the ET3502 (200kHz) after chatting to the folks (not yet paid, Ali has this option)
It is the east tester factory store (100% rating), since anyone can use the name, you have no idea if it is ACTUALLY the east tester factory, but the reviews are in various languages and actually look legit (ie. A+++ best ever vs I tested this meter under these conditions and were happy with this, but didn't like that, etc. in well written English (not language shaming just saying)).

Anyway, I'm super tempted to give it a try, the meter looks pretty decent, specs wise.
The enclosure also makes it look better.

mawyatt@'s concerns about their standards however has me worried about it.
That and the fact that you can't find basically a shred of information about this meter anywhere online.

Anyway I'm between that and the Hioki which is a bit more expensive and I am worried about it having any potential issues because shipping that beast back will not be cheap.

[Martin72]

I wouldn´t worry so much, ET3502 should be in another class.
ET44/45XX are really cheap in comparison to whats in their specs, in case of the ET44XX we´re talking about a benchtop meter for the price of a handheld.
When the hioki works flawless, of course it would be better than anything mentioned before.
But if something is wrong, you got zero support, no new spare parts, only used and expensive.

[KungFuJosh]

I would never pay that much for an ET model. Not even close. You can get the Tonghui (or rebrands of it) for that price.

[mawyatt]

Had no idea the ET3502 was that expensive!!!

Agree, you could get the Tonghui TH2832 for less, which goes to 20-200KHz!!


Best,

[Martin72]

ET3502: 10Hz...200khz in mHz steps. 


https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/east-tester-lcr-et3500/msg2645535/#msg2645535

Looks not bad, but I agree, when it´s cost more than 800$, a (known) TH would be the safer choice.

[thm_w]

Had no idea the ET3502 was that expensive!!!
Agree, you could get the Tonghui TH2832 for less, which goes to 20-200KHz!!

Where are you getting these prices from? Its not even close to being less.
- TH2832 200kHz is $1500
- ET3501 100kHz is $610 (its been on sale for sub $550)
- ET3502 200kHz is $710

[GnomeZA]

Had no idea the ET3502 was that expensive!!!

Agree, you could get the Tonghui TH2832 for less, which goes to 20-200KHz!!


Best,

Could you link to where it could be had for less than $700?  That is what the ET3502 costs...
But I mean even if it can be had for $800 I agree it is the better product to get.

EDIT:  I can't seem to see the TH2830 for less than $891 (claimed to be with free shipping) from https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32812269260.html
But this sellers feedback page is full of red flags like asked for more money to be sent outside the platform, sent wrong product and asked for it to be sent back, etc.

Everyone else is selling just the 2830 for > $1000 far as I could see.
I mean even the TH2830 looks like a great product but if it is $1000 without shipping (+ another ~$150 to my location ) and the ET3502 is $700 with shipping, it is quite a difference.

[GnomeZA]

Ok, guys you've convinced me, TH2830 can be found for $900.  Diving into the hack to 2832 thread now, either way this is already beyond my budget that I wanted to spend (crying a bit tbh).

I do appreciate all the advise given by everyone btw.

[mawyatt]

Had no idea the ET3502 was that expensive!!!

Agree, you could get the Tonghui TH2832 for less, which goes to 20-200KHz!!


Best,

Could you link to where it could be had for less than $700?  That is what the ET3502 costs...
But I mean even if it can be had for $800 I agree it is the better product to get.

EDIT:  I can't seem to see the TH2830 for less than $891 (claimed to be with free shipping) from https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32812269260.html
But this sellers feedback page is full of red flags like asked for more money to be sent outside the platform, sent wrong product and asked for it to be sent back, etc.

Everyone else is selling just the 2830 for > $1000 far as I could see.
I mean even the TH2830 looks like a great product but if it is $1000 without shipping (+ another ~$150 to my location ) and the ET3502 is $700 with shipping, it is quite a difference.

Just saw something over $1000 for an ET type, probably a higher frequency model. The TH2830 has been hacked by KungFuJosh into a TH2832, so for $1000 one could get a TH2830, thus our comment (think he got his TH2830 for under $800).

If you look at a video ET teardown and compare to even a Matrix 5200, the ET looks pretty skimpy. Note the type power transformer utilized by both, Matrix uses similar style to Tonghui.

Anyway, good luck with whatever you decide.

Best,

[GnomeZA]

Just saw something over $1000 for an ET type, probably a higher frequency model. The TH2830 has been hacked by KungFuJosh into a TH2832, so for $1000 one could get a TH2830, thus our comment.

If you look at a video ET teardown and compare to even a Matrix 5200, the ET looks pretty skimpy. Note the type power transformer utilized by both, Matrix uses similar style to Tonghui.

Anyway, good luck with whatever you decide.

I've ordered the TH2830
I shall attempt the hack too.

[mawyatt]

Seems you've made a well informed decision, good luck with whatever you decide.

Make sure to visit the various posts wrt to lab grade bench LCR meter fixtures, adapters, plotting software and such. Be careful this sort of capability within a limited budget and DIY type fixtures can become addictive, don't ask how we know


https://www.eevblog.com/forum/projects/bias-network-for-lcr-meter/msg4170607/#msg4170607

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/projects/lcr-smd-fixture-modification/msg4225168/#msg4225168

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/lcr-meter-plot-software/msg4810088/#msg4810088

Here's some examples of that mentioned "addictive nature"

Best

[GnomeZA]

Make sure to visit the various posts wrt to lab grade bench LCR meter fixtures, adapters

You read my mind
I'm trying to find decently priced place to buy the fixture.

Btw. you guys keep saying that it needs some modification.  You have any info on that?

Again just want to say thanks for the inputs here, saves me a lot of time and having actually done the research on the TH2830, it is so much better than the ET series of products that I'm actually glad my previous order didn't get shipped.

[Andrey_Ak]

Hello!

I requested from the manufacturer a program for controlling the RuoShui 4091C LCR meter in English:

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/east-tester-et4410-desktop-lcr-meter/msg5231736/#msg5231736

Here is the link:   https://tis.kz/temp/LCR_setup_Eng.zip

[pope]

Does anyone know if these meters have any sort of protection against charged caps?

[GnomeZA]

Does anyone know if these meters have any sort of protection against charged caps?

The manual says nothing, but I think it is safe to assume that it does not.
I've yet to see an LCR meter that suggest connecting charged capacitors.