East Tester ET4410&ET4510 Desktop LCR Meter

[Martin72]

Hi Folks,

A thread about the ET4410 from East Tester, I´ve ordered last weekend from Banggood for 225€ and it arrived 2 days later, because of the EU warehouse in CZ.
First impressions are a proper building quality(metal case), proper packaging.
With the ET4410 will come a mains cable and kelvin-testleads wit bnc connectors and a thin manual.
Today I´ve powered up for the first time, display is clear and bright - although the brightness is adjusted to only 30% (factory setting) - Nice.
The ET4410 got 16 testfrequencies from 100hz up to 100khz - The ET4401 is up to 10Khz, the ET4402 up to 20khz.
It got also a "variable" testvoltage up to to 2V (rms I guess, will test it later) and adjustable bias-voltage, which is very uncommon for a meter in this priceclass.
Generally it got more than the price would expect, no question - But let´s see if they are useful/functional.
It got some nice features more I´ll introduce in the next times, today some pics below as I´ve tested a mkp cap and an electrolytic cap.
Further I´ll compare it to my DE5000 LCR and two calibrated LCRs at work as I did in the "LCR Meter Opinion" thread before, without ET4410.
Stay tuned, feel free to ask anything.

Martin

EDIT: Must compress the pics, will do it later

[Martin72]

Edit pics attached, here the rest from "today".

[xmo]

I bought one of these meters a couple years ago.  I agree that the build quality is nice - not quite up to Siglent & Rigol - but nice.

Here is a copy of the manual with specifications.

[BlackFX]

I have the 4401 and I agree, they are great for the price.

[croma641]

Really from Banggood ? I don't find the 4410..

[Martin72]

https://it.banggood.com/ET44-Series-Desktop-Digital-LCR-Meter-Capacitance-Resistance-Impedance-Inductance-Measure-LCR-Bridge-LCR-Meter-p-1427561.html?imageAb=1&utm_source=googleshopping&utm_medium=cpc_organic&utm_content=minha&utm_campaign=minha-deg-de-pc&currency=EUR&cur_warehouse=CZ&createTmp=1&ID=6156609&utm_source=googleshopping&utm_medium=cpc_bgs&utm_content=sxxx&utm_campaign=sxxx-pmax-new-deg-de-MAI-1027-1119&ad_id=&gclid=CjwKCAiA3L6PBhBvEiwAINlJ9FDy0LFQfYk6rLF7m8RfnVCyt0YqfcYA3kbOh0ZkNfrNkP_M5i8R8BoCTzYQAvD_BwE&DCC=IT&akmClientCountry=DE

Really...

[Hydron]

Direct search didn't find it for me either, came up with one of their electronic loads instead. Somehow "et4410 lcr" works though??

If the OP is willing to pop the cover it would be interesting to see pics of the inside, I wonder if it's the same as the ET4401...

[Martin72]

Hi,

Just checked before, "ET44LCR" will work on direct search...
And yes, a teardown is planned..

[BlackFX]

If the OP is willing to pop the cover it would be interesting to see pics of the inside, I wonder if it's the same as the ET4401...

I'd be very interested to see this too, might be easy to hack an 01 into a 10

[coromonadalix]

on youtube i think there is one already ??

Edit   for the 4401   but should be the same ??  minus reduced frequecy tests

[BlackFX]

Edit   for the 4401   but should be the same ??  minus reduced frequecy tests

I suppose the question really is, is it just a hardware mod to make a 4401 into a 4410 or is it also software

[Kleinstein]

It could be a SW only difference, but it could also be higher speed OPs in the higher clock versions too.

[hpw]

@Martin: Stay tuned, feel free to ask anything

Things gets soon as:

. Measure 805 1..10 pF SMD caps

. match 8 SMD resistors from a bag

while the given crocodile 

Hp

[Kleinstein]

For small SMD resistors there are special test fixtures available. The kelvin leads are more for THT parts.
With the large clamps and movable wires there is some variable parasitic capacitance in the low pF range. Capacitors below some 100 pF should better use a more ridgit test fixture. No more need to go 4 wire all the way to the part with such smaller caps.
When testing at the low frequencies, one may also want some shielding against mains hum.

[mawyatt]

Measuring SMD is a little more involved that leaded components. Tweezer types can give good results, but for the most repeatable results a dedicated SMD test fixture is required. These fixtures have good mechanical features & stability which keep the fixture parasitics well behaved and repeatable. The fixture parasitics are "dembedded" with an open and short calibration procedure to remove the effects from the DUT measurement.

Here' a couple examples.

Best,

[Martin72]

Hi,

Additional fixtures will come when I´m convinced in the quality of the ET4410.
But first the tests I can do with the original leads.
They will be done on every weekend the next times and reporting here.
What´s to see on the display, the meanings of range lock, testspeed, different frequencies, the dual display, the list function, etc.
Then comparing measures with the same caps I´ve used on the other LCRs, trying to find several inductance to measure.
Finally the "handler" interface, rs232 and usb.
A look inside will come inbetween, maybe next weekend.

Martin

[mawyatt]

While you are into the test and teardown of this LCR meter, maybe you could look into the possibility of using external DC bias on the DUT.

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/measuring-small-capacitance-with-ks34465a-th2830/75/

Best,

[Martin72]

Hi,

Can do that, the internal bias voltage is relatively low, with max. 1500mV.
Interesting, there is a dedicated electrolytic cap test mode on the ET4410, with fixed output and bias level.

[mawyatt]

Noted that Electrolytic Mode when reviewing the manual, wonder if this places a DC bias on the DUT that is equal to the peak AC voltage to keep DUT waveform from going negative?

Also wonder if the instrument places a series capacitor to remove the DC bias, or just uses analog techniques (subtraction) or digital to remove the DC bias?

Best,

[Kleinstein]

Given the low internal bias voltage range, the bias is probably added without AC coupling, but just by shifting the DC level and using the same amplier output stage at least for the drive part. The measurement may still use AC coupling.

[Martin72]

wonder if this places a DC bias on the DUT that is equal to the peak AC voltage to keep DUT waveform from going negative?

Next "round", I´ll take a look at the output with scope.

[The Electrician]

Noted that Electrolytic Mode when reviewing the manual, wonder if this places a DC bias on the DUT that is equal to the peak AC voltage to keep DUT waveform from going negative?

Also wonder if the instrument places a series capacitor to remove the DC bias, or just uses analog techniques (subtraction) or digital to remove the DC bias?

Best,

The EIA standard for measuring electrolytics over 10 uF allows for the test voltage to go negative by .707 volts.

I measured a few small aluminum electrolytics (with .5 volts @ 120 Hz excitation) on the LCR meter and applied to 2 volts bias and I see only changes in value past the 3rd decimal place.  I applied up to 2 volts in reverse and got the same result.

I also tried this with a tantalum and saw changes in value past the 2nd decimal place.

[2N3055]

Noted that Electrolytic Mode when reviewing the manual, wonder if this places a DC bias on the DUT that is equal to the peak AC voltage to keep DUT waveform from going negative?

Also wonder if the instrument places a series capacitor to remove the DC bias, or just uses analog techniques (subtraction) or digital to remove the DC bias?

Best,

I think you're right, this does simply put DC bias to prevent it from going negative. The voltage range of bias function is just sufficient for that.
But that function is already pretty good for very inexpensive instrument.

DC bias for capacitors is reason I kept my old 1657 Digibridge. That is otherwise not very remarkable instrument (it was in it's day, and still useful today) with very limited test frequencies(100Hz, 120Hz and 1kHz). But it officially supports external DC bias source, and it officially supports at least 30V.  Input capacitor is rated for 100V...

It works well for larger values.. It is not meant to be used for low pF ranges.. from some 100pF to 1000uF it has 0.2% accuracy...

[mawyatt]

Noted that Electrolytic Mode when reviewing the manual, wonder if this places a DC bias on the DUT that is equal to the peak AC voltage to keep DUT waveform from going negative?

Also wonder if the instrument places a series capacitor to remove the DC bias, or just uses analog techniques (subtraction) or digital to remove the DC bias?

Best,

I think you're right, this does simply put DC bias to prevent it from going negative. The voltage range of bias function is just sufficient for that.
But that function is already pretty good for very inexpensive instrument.

DC bias for capacitors is reason I kept my old 1657 Digibridge. That is otherwise not very remarkable instrument (it was in it's day, and still useful today) with very limited test frequencies(100Hz, 120Hz and 1kHz). But it officially supports external DC bias source, and it officially supports at least 30V.  Input capacitor is rated for 100V...

It works well for larger values.. It is not meant to be used for low pF ranges.. from some 100pF to 1000uF it has 0.2% accuracy...

If the LCR meter uses an internal series capacitor Cs to remove the DUT DC bias, and you are measuring a large value capacitor Cdut, how is the internal series capacitor Cs accounted for since the resultant capacitance "seen" by the measurement mechanism should be 1/(1/Cs + 1/Cdut)?

Is this by a lookup table and interpolation created during calibration, or maybe just calculate the Cdut from the measured value?

Edit: Reason I ask is because it seems the uncertainty in the Cdut measurement gets worse as Cdut gets larger WRT the series Cs value. A large Cdut WRT Cs means that most of the measurement voltage appears across Cs and not Cdut.

Best,

[2N3055]

Noted that Electrolytic Mode when reviewing the manual, wonder if this places a DC bias on the DUT that is equal to the peak AC voltage to keep DUT waveform from going negative?

Also wonder if the instrument places a series capacitor to remove the DC bias, or just uses analog techniques (subtraction) or digital to remove the DC bias?

Best,

I think you're right, this does simply put DC bias to prevent it from going negative. The voltage range of bias function is just sufficient for that.
But that function is already pretty good for very inexpensive instrument.

DC bias for capacitors is reason I kept my old 1657 Digibridge. That is otherwise not very remarkable instrument (it was in it's day, and still useful today) with very limited test frequencies(100Hz, 120Hz and 1kHz). But it officially supports external DC bias source, and it officially supports at least 30V.  Input capacitor is rated for 100V...

It works well for larger values.. It is not meant to be used for low pF ranges.. from some 100pF to 1000uF it has 0.2% accuracy...

If the LCR meter uses an internal series capacitor Cs to remove the DUT DC bias, and you are measuring a large value capacitor Cdut, how is the internal series capacitor Cs accounted for since the resultant capacitance "seen" by the measurement mechanism should be 1/(1/Cs + 1/Cdut)?

Is this by a lookup table and interpolation created during calibration?   

Best,

There is service manual with schematics and measurement principles for 1657.  Decoupling capacitor is part of sense input all the time, it is not in series or parallel with DUT current path. There is series inductance after capacitor too. 0,47uF/18uH combination driving 2.2 Mohm resistor going into FET opamp (TL084). There is not much phase shift here or loading for the DUT.

It does classic Kelvin 4W measurements, and measures phase shift and amplitude, through 8 different measurements.
It calculates from there.