Do You kill Flukes?

[joeqsmith]

Unless you're dumb enough to buy an old DMM and place yourself at risk !

I would say those two statements do not go hand in hand, as many 'old meters' are perfectly safe to use, (fluke or otherwise). Plenty of 'old DMM's' being 'bought' over in the TEA thread, are they dumb and/or putting themselves at risk ?.
What the end user does with either an old or new meter is their choice to make, hopefully they know what they are doing.

One proviso, with a SH DMM you have NO idea of the use or abuse it has suffered......sure not an issue if you're just measuring an Arduino.

Not hard to visually inspect. How likely is it that spike has taken out a MOV for example without physical damage for example. Blown PTC's will usually affect the measurements. Fuses are replaceable.
So it's not hard to be confident in a 2nd hand DMM if you know what you are buying.

Sure IF you have the chance to inspect it in person.
This forum is littered with members bad DMM buying experiences, even Flukes many that result in eBay returns to the seller.

Want something that can be trusted at full rated specs, well cough up for a new Fluke or one of the EEVblog meters.

Another problem is the person doing the work may not be qualified.  Like the idiot that lost the switch contact on that beat up 189 I bought.  Worse yet, they may feel they are!       

There are some pretty chopped up Flukes on eBay.  I like the one with the holes drilled in the side to run wires out after the leaking batteries damaged the contacts.   Then there is the lack of parts if you want to repair one.   

The 189 seems to go between 200 and 300 USD.  Not sure who is buying them but I would rather have a brand new BM869s at 230. 

[rsjsouza]

I have one Fluke 8020A that is dead... (bad LCD)
I have one Fluke 27/FM that is in the ICU... (bad LCD)
The only meter I have ever blown in my life was a Minpa ET2060 in a stupid overvoltage accident with a NST and a variac.

So no, I never blew a Fluke...

[tautech]

Not hard to visually inspect. How likely is it that spike has taken out a MOV for example without physical damage for example. Blown PTC's will usually affect the measurements. Fuses are replaceable.
So it's not hard to be confident in a 2nd hand DMM if you know what you are buying.

Sure IF you have the chance to inspect it in person.
This forum is littered with members bad DMM buying experiences, even Flukes many that result in eBay returns to the seller.

But it's not an argument about a "buying experience", it's about being able to trust a 2nd hand meter in terms of safety. Obviously every 2nd hand bit of gear is a risk in many aspects.

Sure but with all the HV stuff I've done the only meters I bought 2nd hand were AVO's and only for their 3KV range. They are flash tested to 6KV (pre CAT ratings) so fine for low energy measurements like CRO EHT. The sometimes seen aftermarket AVO leads are another matter ! 
I progressed over 40 yrs from a good Jap Kaise analogue meter to $1 Harbor Freight DMMs to a Vichy 99 then finally to a Chinese Fluke 15B that apart from my bench SDM3065X is my best meter.

Some 2nd hand DMMs could be trusted but again I'd want to inspect before shelling out any sort of dosh more than beer money.

Want something that can be trusted at full rated specs, well cough up for a new Fluke or one of the EEVblog meters.

Even brand new meters have a small failure yield.

That's what warranty is for.

[joeqsmith]

Kill, blew... is there a difference? 

I've posted/talked about damaging my first Fluke I bought new several times.   That meter was not robust unless compared with the free ones HF now offers.  No, the HF would out survive it.   

It it wasn't for that Fungus guy wanting me to run that little 101, I would still not own a Fluke today!  That wasn't something Fluke's marketing hype would have ever changed.   I've eaten a lot of yellow crows in the last couple of years.

There are a lot of posts on this site showing pictures of Fluke front end damage.   This video is still my favorite of all time.  The 189 that refused to die.
When I asked they wrote "The 20KV came from a power supply that drives the final anode on the CRT HUD of the Typhoon Eurofighter."   

https://youtu.be/DUwkuM3blsk

[bc888]

I hope I never blow one of mine up. Although I'm new to this game I have a strong memory of surviving touching a main line with a 10' aluminum pole while pressure washing an eve that I never want to duplicate. All electrical things make me fearful these days. Trying to overcome that. That said: I just bought the DMM Check plus and checked some of my meters a few days back. The Flukes (3 old 27 and 27/FM's included, used off Ebay) one 27 II one 189 II all hit the mark dead nuts on. Eevblog BM235 was close (say 999.5 vs fluke 100.00). My mouth was open. Natch the Fluke non-true RMS meters came in at 5.54 vs 5.00 for RMS ones on DC voltage etc.  Nothing short of astounding. Not saying that Fluke in the future will carry that over, I expect they won't just based on the new masters trying to optimise profits and not performance like in days of old, but amazing still. 

PS, also, to Joesmith: I've watched all your DMM vids and read your posts, never wanted to post non-essential trash to cluster F up the threads, but want to say now: thanks for sharing those!

[Calambres]

I once completely killed an Amprobe 37XR-A. Amprobe is a second brand of Fluke, so I think this falls into this topic 

I was measuring the output of a 220V to 12V... only that I connected it the wrong way. The output was WAY beyond the limit of the DMM.

I must have paid attention to the loud buzz the transformer was making before probing it 

[joeqsmith]

Amprobe is a second brand of Fluke, so I think this falls into this topic 

Danaher acquired Fluke 1998 and AMPROBE in 2006.  They also own several other T&M companies.  Now we have Fortive
https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1659166/000119312515394365/d43850dex991.htm     


I guess Tektronix and Keithley are now second brands of Fluke as well?

[ModemHead]

I don't kill Flukes, I acquire them in critical condition. Well to be perfectly honest, I did kill a Fluke 177 once, by allowing an alligator clip powering the board to come loose while I was tracing out the power supply. The clip contacted some arbitrary point. It heated up and killed the processor. Some lessons learned there...

The following pix are from a near-death 189 I bought on eBay for $29, shipped.

First, an interesting fuse modification, which might give a clue as to the previous owner's mindset.


The fusible resistor had obviously failed in a spectacular event, presumably instigated by attaching the meter to an energetic source with a potential above the device's ratings.


In addition to that, some philistene had been inside doing bizarre things. None of this handiwork is mine. I can't even explain it. The remaining red varistor measured 53 ohms.


The unit had more problems unrelated to the spectacular event, not the least of which was two missing rotor contacts. A fellow EEVblog forum member sold me a spare parts collection with an extra rotor in it, so I was eventually able to complete repairs.


The unit has been in service on my bench for several months now with no problems. Don't worry, I have no intention to sell this meter or transfer it to anyone without disclosure that the Fluke specs have been compromised.

[joeqsmith]

Some of the best pictures yet on how to modify a meter.  I thought I had seen it all when it comes to fuses.  This person was an out of the box thinker. 

This would make for a very entertaining Amp-hour interview with the person/s involved.       

[rsjsouza]

ModemHead, that was a very entertaining set of photographs. I have seen such fuse hack job but not in a multimeter (in a distribution box, of all places).

[Vtile]

I do have Fluke 8030A which shows false reading in (mains) AC volts and eats batteries faster than should, but I do normally use my AVO8 for volts and Unigor6e for current, when doing mains powered fun.

I also do have Fluke scope with blown reticle illumination (now fixed.). 

[Neomys Sapiens]

My beloved 8060 (must have been a very early one of those sold in Germany, as I ordered within a week after publication in the 'Elektronik') died of repeated shock/drop. It was my preferred 'communications multimeter' even after the aquisition of a 87, so it was along on some shady surveillance jobs.
Electrically, none yet.

[blacksheeplogic]

I don't kill Flukes, I acquire them in critical condition. Well to be perfectly honest, I did kill a Fluke 177 once, by allowing an alligator clip powering the board to come loose while I was tracing out the power supply. The clip contacted some arbitrary point. It heated up and killed the processor. Some lessons learned there...

First, an interesting fuse modification, which might give a clue as to the previous owner's mindset.

My guess would be a hobbyist measuring current across the mains. Note sure why they went to the effort of soldering a glass fuse in, seems like a lot of work when a piece of wire would have be just as good and a much quicker fix (cheaper as well).

[joeqsmith]

Explains the fuse but not the front end damage.   Mom and dad bought kid a 189 to play with their MOT?  Kid decided to then repair it?  My sister could do better work and she's never held an iron before.

[ModemHead]

My guess would be a hobbyist measuring current across the mains. Note sure why they went to the effort of soldering a glass fuse in, seems like a lot of work when a piece of wire would have be just as good and a much quicker fix (cheaper as well).

This and most any decent DMM would shrug off measuring current across household mains with a small pop.

To cause spectacular destruction of the fusible resistor, there would have to be enough voltage applied to the regular voltage input to cause the MOVs to conduct.  Then there would have to be enough energy in the source to overwhelm the ability of the fusible resistor and the thermistor to dissipate heat.

Yeah, like a MOT.

[lowimpedance]

I don't kill Flukes, I acquire them in critical condition. Well to be perfectly honest, I did kill a Fluke 177 once, by allowing an alligator clip powering the board to come loose while I was tracing out the power supply. The clip contacted some arbitrary point. It heated up and killed the processor. Some lessons learned there...

The following pix are from a near-death 189 I bought on eBay for $29, shipped.

Well .....I'm speechless...........  except to say  at the previous owner.

@Modemhead, well done indeed on the Fluke 189  Phoenix 189. 

[vk6zgo]

Although I have had good experiences with the 77 & others I have used, the very first generations of Fluke Bench DMMs I encountered had a rather different reputation.
"It's a fluke if it works" was a common comment.

We had two fail in quick succession.
The first (the earlier model of the two) was easily fixed, but the second was a nightmare.

It really put me off Flukes till I got the 77.
Of the portable ones, the model with the push buttons on the side pretty much confirmed my prejudice.

[001]

Although I have had good experiences with the 77 & others I have used, the very first generations of Fluke Bench DMMs I encountered had a rather different reputation.
"It's a fluke if it works" was a common comment.

We had two fail in quick succession.
The first (the earlier model of the two) was easily fixed, but the second was a nightmare.

It really put me off Flukes till I got the 77.
Of the portable ones, the model with the push buttons on the side pretty much confirmed my prejudice.

It is hard to understand You. What models and problems do You mean?

[bd139]

I tend to agree. The early black coloured LED units weren’t particularly good I don’t think. The 8000A was the worst. The later white handhelds like the 8060a and 802xB were ok but until the 73/75/77 came out they weren’t anything special. I think 8010A was the first cheap one with some decent protection built in.

[001]

I think 8010A was the first cheap one with some decent protection built in.

Is it really good?

[bd139]

Yeah apart from the display failures. If you get a mains only one without any display problems then it’s a damn good meter.

[001]

Yeah apart from the display failures. If you get a mains only one without any display problems then it’s a damn good meter.

 I think that 8010A is oldstyle gear based on schematic similar to poor cheap harbor freight meter, isnt it? (I mean fluke/intersil chip known as ICL7106)

[bd139]

Sort of. The source of the design is the same. Basically Intersil made the IC for Fluke and decided to second source a variant of it and sell it. Fluke were apparently pissed about that. I can't remember where I read that. Then much later the Chinese came along and cloned it for panel meters. The some enterprising (and clever!) individual came along and came up with the DT830 variants. These started off reasonable believe it or not (I've seen an old one with things like HRC fuses and MOVs in!) and slowly started a race to the bottom.

The difference between a Harbour Freight meter is the 8010A has a separate RMS converter, decent protection, solid power supply, stable reference and calibration, constant 10M input impedance (instead of 1M), has much lower ranges like 200mV AC, higher resistance ranges, better switches (don't underestimate this one!).

The last two 801xA meters I've had in were still calibration sealed from the mid 1980s and were spot on cal compared to my 87V which has a 2018 cal cert on it!

Fluke 8010A costs around £20 here which is a pretty good deal. About the same as a trip to McDonalds for two people.

Edit: the only things missing for me from the 8010A which would have made it perfect IMHO would be shrouded banana jacks and a standard LCD module for the display. The things would literally last forever then.

[001]

The last two 801xA meters I've had in were still calibration sealed from the mid 1980s and were spot on cal compared to my 87V which has a 2018 cal cert on it!

Thanx for info! I cant see one here. It will be interesting to see how Fluke build it. Can You say where I can read about or/and see printed boards 8010A to learn more for input protection and overal design?

[bd139]

I would note that it's not as good as modern Fluke for sure but it's pretty good:

Inside of mine:



Service and operation manual: https://www.qsl.net/n9zia/test/Fluke-8010A_Instruction_Manual.pdf