Author Topic: Direct comparison aspects on Siglent SDS2000X Plus vs. SDS1000X HD  (Read 1145 times)

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Online Uli AuerTopic starter

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Hey folks,

after being almost sold on the MSO5000 (I'm a hobbyist still buying my first DSO after a trusty HP/Agilent 54610B 500MHz), I'm now heading towards the Siglent route after 3 weeks of research - first and foremost for (frontend) noise reasons and my main application being supposed to be audio work (with a little bonus towards embedded systems development).

As I've narrowed it down to the Siglent SDS2000X Plus and the new SDS1000X HD - which are both on my bench right now as demo units for direct comparisons, due to the lack of real experience I'm a little insecure about which one to get.

So I'm happy to hear your opinions on pros/cons for these two....

I think we can skip any aspects of ergonomics (although I prefer the 1kxHD's control's feel) and personal taste. Most of the form factors like display size etc. match anyway, same goes for the software features.

What I'm after are those fine little differences in specs that might (or might not) matter regarding true performance.
I found it interesting to see that making some simple noise measurements (open channel) - and also measurements with low-level signals from a 2-ch AWG (like sine or square waves with for example 100mV rms) both units show pretty much the same results - although the 2KX+ has "only" the 8-bit frontend with 10-bit software mode but the 1KHD has real 12-bit....

There are some parameters from the data sheets I can't evaluate whether they really make an important difference or in which application,
(A = SDS2000X Plus, B = SDS1000X HD) for example:

- (analog aquisition) peak detect:      A: 1ns         B: 2ns minimum detectable pulse

- vertical offset accuracy:      A: +/-1.5%        B: +/- 0.5%

- DC gain accuracy:      A: ≤3%        B: +/- 1.5% and +/- 0.5%   

- Low frequency response (AC coupling -3dB):      A: 5Hz     B: 2Hz

- Horizontal time base accuracy:     A: +/- 1ppm     B: +/- 25ppm

And what about the ENOB of only 8.4 bits on the 12-bit SDS1kHD ???  :o


Btw: Since the HDMI out was one of my pro arguments towards the MSO5k back then....I really experience the remote LAN view of the Siglent as being very laggy being viewed side by side to the unit's display....is that normal (only tested the 1KXHD) ?
« Last Edit: July 27, 2024, 12:59:12 pm by Uli Auer »
 

Online Martin72

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Re: Direct comparison aspects on Siglent SDS2000X Plus vs. SDS1000X HD
« Reply #1 on: July 27, 2024, 01:54:21 pm »
Hi,

Quote
And what about the ENOB of only 8.4 bits on the 12-bit SDS1kHD

This is a normal value for a 12 bit oscilloscope, Rigol for example only writes “over 8” in their data sheets, they will probably know why. ;)
A 12Bit 4Ghz scope, for example, could have less than 6.
« Last Edit: July 27, 2024, 06:23:21 pm by Martin72 »
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Offline teddychn

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Re: Direct comparison aspects on Siglent SDS2000X Plus vs. SDS1000X HD
« Reply #2 on: July 27, 2024, 02:19:31 pm »
IMHO:

If you need 500MHz bandwidth, deep memory, and a built-in AWG, SDS2000X Plus it is.
If you need high resolution, go for the SDS1000X HD.
If you want both, upgrade to the SDS2000X HD. The SDS2000X HD even offers more than the above.
 
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Online KungFuJosh

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Re: Direct comparison aspects on Siglent SDS2000X Plus vs. SDS1000X HD
« Reply #3 on: July 27, 2024, 02:34:11 pm »
What Teddy said.

I used the SDS2000X+ for audio work (guitar amps and pedals, pro audio preamps, etc.), and it was great. I've now sold it and I'm getting an SDS2000X HD. I would not have sold it to get a SDS1000X HD, but any of these 3 scopes being discussed should be great.

I like having the higher frequency range available to test and learn about other things, thought it's not useful for audio. For audio work, I generally have the 20M bw limit enabled.
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Online Uli AuerTopic starter

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Okay. The 2000xHD is way out of reach budget-wise - I tend to the 1000xHD @ 200MHz though….

Any opinions or on the differences in specs mentioned above? Or even concerns in case of the decision towards the 1kHD over the 2kPlus? Especially the (way worse?) spec of the 1kHD‘s horizontal time base accuracy of +/- 25ppm?
 

Offline Mahagam

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I want to add a few words about HDMI vs remote LAN. The remote LAN is bidirectional (compared to HDMI) - you have full control over your scope!
 
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Online TomKatt

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I want to add a few words about HDMI vs remote LAN. The remote LAN is bidirectional (compared to HDMI) - you have full control over your scope!
Remind me - does the hdmi offer improved resolution, or is it basically the same information just scaled up?  Because if it’s the same information, what benefit do you get over the larger 10” display to begin with?
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Online Martin72

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Any opinions or on the differences in specs mentioned above?

SDS2000Xplus vs 1000X HD:

+Min 1GSa/s on all channels
+Min 100Mpts on all channels (200Mpts 1 channel)
+AWG implemented
+LA implemented
+Zone Trigger
+5 decoders more
- 2 Mathchannels
- No digital filters
- 8(10) Bit

Quote
Especially the (way worse?) spec of the 1kHD‘s horizontal time base accuracy of +/- 25ppm?
The 1ppm clock in the SDS2000Xplus is absolutely unique in this price range and will not be seen again so soon.
The 25ppm of the 1000X HD is more likely, you won't notice any direct disadvantage, if necessary with the hardware counter.



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Offline Performa01

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There are some parameters from the data sheets I can't evaluate whether they really make an important difference or in which application,
(A = SDS2000X Plus, B = SDS1000X HD) for example:

- (analog aquisition) peak detect:      A: 1ns         B: 2ns minimum detectable pulse
This is the sample interval in the trigger signal path. Modern DSOs have a fully digital trigger engine, which not only allows for very complex triggers but also ensures sufficient trigger bandwidth. Without diving into the basics of DSO operation, it can be said that this is the shortest pulse width the scope can reliably detect (and trigger on).

- vertical offset accuracy:      A: +/-1.5%        B: +/- 0.5%
Well, the 8-bit specifications are standard for a serious scope, whereas B indicates an even better accuracy. Siglent quite obviously felt that the higher resolution of a true 12-bit DSO also deserves increased accuracy.

- DC gain accuracy:      A: ≤3%        B: +/- 1.5% and +/- 0.5%   
Same as above, where 0.5% is pretty class leading also compared to the so called “Big Boys”.

- Low frequency response (AC coupling -3dB):      A: 5Hz     B: 2Hz
Well, it’s the -3 dB frequency with AC input coupling. Quite obviously not so important, as anything below 10 Hz should be fine. Hint: if you work with frequencies below a couple hundred Hertz, you shoud always use DC-cupling for best accuracy anyway. Of course, you need AC-coupling for e.g. ripple measurement on analog PSUs, but then again, extremely high accuracy isn’t a main concern with such measurements.

- Horizontal time base accuracy:     A: +/- 1ppm     B: +/- 25ppm
25 ppm (or even 50 ppm) used to be standard for some time – this is way more accurate than any analog scope anyway. On the other hand, an accurate Counter/Timer was a standard tool on every bench in the old days, while many applications can get away with the integrated trigger frequency counter of a DSO nowadays. Once again, 1 ppm is class-leading, not easily found elsewhere.

And what about the ENOB of only 8.4 bits on the 12-bit SDS1kHD ???  :o
As the name suggests, it is the effective number of bits. This is not primarily dictated by the ADC-resolution, but spurious signals, noise and distortion limit the value. Consequently, it should not come as a surprise that higher bandwidth DSOs provide lower ENOB-values. With 20 MHz bandwidth limiter and in 10-bit mode, an 8-bit SDS2000X Plus can easily reach more than 9 bits. In general, ENOB is often compromised by the interleaving spurs of the ADC. In other words: it is only a couple discrete frequencies, or harmonics from the analog frontend, all of which can be compensated/filtered/ignored in most practical measurements (… except THD analysis, quite obviously).

Btw: Since the HDMI out was one of my pro arguments towards the MSO5k back then....I really experience the remote LAN view of the Siglent as being very laggy being viewed side by side to the unit's display....is that normal (only tested the 1KXHD) ?
I’ve seen very few reports on such behavior, but in general there is no significant lag. It might have to do with your particular network infrastructure.
 

EDIT: If MSO is important, then the SDS2000X Plus series offers a fully integrated solution, whereas the 800/1000 series has a separate external hardware, which poses quite some limitations.
« Last Edit: Today at 05:26:29 am by Performa01 »
 
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Online Uli AuerTopic starter

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Thanks for your replies - especially to Performa01 for the detailed explanation of the particular parameters...

The HDMI (on the Rigols) is not expanding resolution - ist's only showing a bigger picture of the same 1240x720 (MSO5000), depending on the screen you use.
On my pretty big 32" 2560x1440 the mirrored screen of the MSO5000 still had a black frame around the scope's GUI image, and of course it started to get a bit washy.....but still it was nice to see it bigger....

@Performa01: Good to know that it's supposed to be lag-free....but here it's definitely not....and my Network is without any doubt fast enough (new house LAN installation with CAT7 and 1Gb LAN switch...maybe it's a Mac thing? But also this is hell of a laptop with mega graphics (MacbookPro M1 Max 64GB RAM)

Happy to get more feedback about other user's experience with the Siglent remote GUI (response)...
 

Online Uli AuerTopic starter

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Re: Direct comparison aspects on Siglent SDS2000X Plus vs. SDS1000X HD
« Reply #10 on: Yesterday at 08:48:15 pm »

EDIT: If MSO is important, then the SDS2000X Plus series offers a fully integrated solution, whereas the 800/1000 series has a separate external hardware, which poses quite some limitations.

I'm pretty fine using the four analog channels for LA functions only - that's sufficient for simple serial interfaces (ok, not in parallel to the analog channals probing other signals)
Btw afaik the LA is external hardware in BOTH units, isn't it? Also the (high) prices for both options are quite the same....anyway....I'd rather buy a Digital Discovery vor 250 Euros in case I need LA with more than 4 channels at once...and then I have MORE than 16 logic channels anyway....

Since the Siglent 2ch / 30MHz AWG is only slightly more expensive than the (1CH !) option for the S2kXplus I'll go that route anyway - the 1kHD is also capable of controlling the external AWG....so that's pretty cool I think...

And again: in total buying the SDS1204X HD and the SDG1032X is 1588 EUR ex VAT - which is almost doubling my original max budget.... :palm:

But I think this is a pretty damn good (hobbyist's !) combo, don't you think?

In general I find the pricing of the Siglent options quite ridiculous!

490€ ex VAT for the 16ch LA probe kit PLUS 255€ ex VAT for licensing only - PER serial protocol !?!??!?!  :--
That's insane....!  :box:
 

Online Martin72

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Re: Direct comparison aspects on Siglent SDS2000X Plus vs. SDS1000X HD
« Reply #11 on: Yesterday at 09:06:27 pm »
Fix your post... ;)

Quote
490€ ex VAT for the 16ch LA probe kit PLUS 255€ ex VAT for licensing only

With the latest update, a software license is no longer required.
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Offline tautech

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Re: Direct comparison aspects on Siglent SDS2000X Plus vs. SDS1000X HD
« Reply #12 on: Yesterday at 09:20:43 pm »
EDIT: If MSO is important, then the SDS2000X Plus series offers a fully integrated solution, whereas the 800/1000 series has a separate external hardware, which poses quite some limitations.
I'm pretty fine using the four analog channels for LA functions only - that's sufficient for simple serial interfaces (ok, not in parallel to the analog channals probing other signals)
Btw afaik the LA is external hardware in BOTH units, isn't it? Also the (high) prices for both options are quite the same....anyway....I'd rather buy a Digital Discovery vor 250 Euros in case I need LA with more than 4 channels at once...and then I have MORE than 16 logic channels anyway....
No, SPL2016 is a passive LA/MSO probing solution whereas SLA1016 is an active external device.

Since the Siglent 2ch / 30MHz AWG is only slightly more expensive than the (1CH !) option for the S2kXplus I'll go that route anyway - the 1kHD is also capable of controlling the external AWG....so that's pretty cool I think...

And again: in total buying the SDS1204X HD and the SDG1032X is 1588 EUR ex VAT - which is almost doubling my original max budget.... :palm:

But I think this is a pretty damn good (hobbyist's !) combo, don't you think?
Yes, a very capable pairing.
In general I find the pricing of the Siglent options quite ridiculous!

490€ ex VAT for the 16ch LA probe kit PLUS 255€ ex VAT for licensing only - PER serial protocol !?!??!?!  :--
That's insane....!  :box:
MSO not longer needs licensing.
The popular protocol decodes of I2C, SPI, UART, CAN and LIN for SDS2000X Plus and all other models are standard and free.
Only the more advanced protocols are optional.

Fix your post... ;)
I tried......
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Online Uli AuerTopic starter

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Re: Direct comparison aspects on Siglent SDS2000X Plus vs. SDS1000X HD
« Reply #13 on: Yesterday at 09:21:21 pm »
The latest update of....what...?

The general software? Does that mean the serial options don't cost anything anymore?

Anyway the 16ch probe is still 490€ + 93,10€ VAT = 583,10€....too much for me - at least for now....I mean I can get the probe later if I really need it (and after breaking a bank :-DD)
 

Online Uli AuerTopic starter

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Re: Direct comparison aspects on Siglent SDS2000X Plus vs. SDS1000X HD
« Reply #14 on: Yesterday at 09:24:31 pm »
MSO not longer needs licensing.
The popular protocol decodes of I2C, SPI, UART, CAN and LIN for SDS2000X Plus and all other models are standard and free.
Only the more advanced protocols are optional.
[/quote]

Good to know! On the Siglent website the single protocol decode licenses are still being listed....
 

Offline tautech

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Re: Direct comparison aspects on Siglent SDS2000X Plus vs. SDS1000X HD
« Reply #15 on: Yesterday at 09:29:51 pm »
MSO not longer needs licensing.
The popular protocol decodes of I2C, SPI, UART, CAN and LIN for SDS2000X Plus and all other models are standard and free.
Only the more advanced protocols are optional.

Good to know! On the Siglent website the single protocol decode licenses are still being listed....
SDS2kX Plus and above models only offer the advanced protocol decodes.
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Online TomKatt

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Re: Direct comparison aspects on Siglent SDS2000X Plus vs. SDS1000X HD
« Reply #16 on: Yesterday at 09:38:28 pm »
The latest update of....what...?

The general software? Does that mean the serial options don't cost anything anymore?

Anyway the 16ch probe   8)8)is still 490€ + 93,10€ VAT = 583,10€....too much for me - at least for now....I mean I can get the probe later if I really need it (and after breaking a bank :-DD)
Unless you absolutely need to align your digital signals with analog channels, I’ve always felt better LA gear can be had for cheaper…. And though I haven’t tried it yet, there’s a possibility of feeding the scope trigger out to trigger the LA or vice/versa.  Ive had great success using a DSlogic Plus LA, and it also offers more decoders and more digital triggering options.

In general, I think dedicated test gear is more powerful / flexible than integrated solutions.  And the SDS800X HD series seems really very competitive to its bigger cousins - with the exception of screen size and 50 ohm features they are very close…. Take that cash and put it towards the other gear you need?  But as has been mentioned several times here, if you can afford it go for the max lol.

Edit - obviously if you need >200MHz BW or the 1ppm timebase accuracy on the 2000HD then the SDS800X HD won’t cut it.
« Last Edit: Yesterday at 09:45:29 pm by TomKatt »
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Online Martin72

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Re: Direct comparison aspects on Siglent SDS2000X Plus vs. SDS1000X HD
« Reply #17 on: Yesterday at 09:47:23 pm »
Quote
And the SDS800X HD series seems really very competitive to its bigger cousins - with the exception of screen size and 50 ohm features they are very close…

This is also the secret star of the new series for me.
There has never been so much scope for so little money.
The fact that it doesn't have 50 Ohm inputs is acceptable in view of the maximum bandwidth.
And if you don't necessarily need a 10” screen.....
Buy the SDS804 for 500 to tune the 824.
Then you'd still have money left over for an SDG2042X.
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Online Uli AuerTopic starter

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Re: Direct comparison aspects on Siglent SDS2000X Plus vs. SDS1000X HD
« Reply #18 on: Yesterday at 10:00:35 pm »
I think I'll go for the SDS1204X HD - as already said.....I think the 50Ω are a pretty good thing to have....of course for a hefty price upgrade compared to the 800.....but 10" looks also much better...
 

Online TomKatt

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Re: Direct comparison aspects on Siglent SDS2000X Plus vs. SDS1000X HD
« Reply #19 on: Yesterday at 10:03:33 pm »
Quote
And the SDS800X HD series seems really very competitive to its bigger cousins - with the exception of screen size and 50 ohm features they are very close…

This is also the secret star of the new series for me.
There has never been so much scope for so little money.
The fact that it doesn't have 50 Ohm inputs is acceptable in view of the maximum bandwidth.
And if you don't necessarily need a 10” screen.....
Buy the SDS804 for 500 to tune the 824.
Then you'd still have money left over for an SDG2042X.
I’m guessing that Siglent rushed into competing with Rigol’s DHO800 12bit introduction and felt compelled to price it in the same bracket.  Had they realized Rigol either rushed themselves and released “unpolished” firmware (or didn’t invest sufficiently) - making the SDS800X HD a little better in comparison IMO, Siglent may have been able to price the new 800X HD series more accordingly to their overall performance in the market (ie more $$$) and I suspect it would still be very popular.  It just seems under-priced for what they offer, especially considering the ease of “upgrading” an 804 into an 824 simply by entering a license code (another advantage compared to mucking around with files on a Rigol).  Not that I’m complaining mind you  >:D

I think I'll go for the SDS1204X HD - as already said.....I think the 50Ω are a pretty good thing to have....of course for a hefty price upgrade compared to the 800.....but 10" looks also much better...
Nothing wrong with that if you’ve got the cash   8)
« Last Edit: Yesterday at 10:36:28 pm by TomKatt »
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Offline egonotto

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Re: Direct comparison aspects on Siglent SDS2000X Plus vs. SDS1000X HD
« Reply #20 on: Yesterday at 11:21:33 pm »
I think I'll go for the SDS1204X HD - as already said.....I think the 50Ω are a pretty good thing to have....of course for a hefty price upgrade compared to the 800.....but 10" looks also much better...

Hello,

the price difference is over €800. You could buy the SDS804X HD and the Siglent SDG2042X and a USB logic analyzer and a couple of 50 Ohm termination resistors and a magnifier for the same money. With the web interface you also have a bigger screen.

Best regards
egonotto
 

Offline tautech

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Re: Direct comparison aspects on Siglent SDS2000X Plus vs. SDS1000X HD
« Reply #21 on: Yesterday at 11:30:17 pm »
Thanks for your replies - especially to Performa01 for the detailed explanation of the particular parameters...

The HDMI (on the Rigols) is not expanding resolution - ist's only showing a bigger picture of the same 1240x720 (MSO5000), depending on the screen you use.
On my pretty big 32" 2560x1440 the mirrored screen of the MSO5000 still had a black frame around the scope's GUI image, and of course it started to get a bit washy.....but still it was nice to see it bigger....

@Performa01: Good to know that it's supposed to be lag-free....but here it's definitely not....and my Network is without any doubt fast enough (new house LAN installation with CAT7 and 1Gb LAN switch...maybe it's a Mac thing? But also this is hell of a laptop with mega graphics (MacbookPro M1 Max 64GB RAM)

Happy to get more feedback about other user's experience with the Siglent remote GUI (response)...
Or whatever browser you're using with it.

W10 and Chrome is pretty snappy.
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Online KungFuJosh

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Happy to get more feedback about other user's experience with the Siglent remote GUI (response)...

There's two things to consider: lag, and frame rate. For me, there was almost no lag when I had the SDS2504X+ connected via ethernet. However, the frame rate is only something like 15fps, which can feel like lag, but it is not.

The other thing to keep in mind, is that the 10" models have a better interface in general, including remotely through a web browser.

Thanks,
Josh
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Offline ebastler

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The other thing to keep in mind, is that the 10" models have a better interface in general, including remotely through a web browser.

I thought that any interface differences relate to button operation only -- where the SDS800 scopes still have the button layout carried over from the non-touchscreen predecessor, and hence have some redundant buttons. Are there differences in the touch (and hence web) UI as well?
 

Offline tautech

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The other thing to keep in mind, is that the 10" models have a better interface in general, including remotely through a web browser.

I thought that any interface differences relate to button operation only -- where the SDS800 scopes still have the button layout carried over from the non-touchscreen predecessor, and hence have some redundant buttons. Are there differences in the touch (and hence web) UI as well?
Minor.

The 7" SDS800X HD display is not wide enough to accomodate all the UI features of its bigger display brothers so MATH is assigned to the front panel and not in the dropdown menus, however the web UI permits just opening another channel with the OSD + allows us to dedicate MATH to the new channel.
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