Choosing a four channel Oscilloscope

[Fsck]

DSOX2000 series performance/price ratio is more interesting than tektronix one and I'm considering the DSOX2004a

Buy it if 1Mpoints per each channel memory is enough for you. Well, If you need a huge memory, you might consider Rigol DS2000, that also has that well-known well-implemented segmented memory (called record & playback function).

except the ds2000 doesn't come in a 4-channel version.

[0xfede]

@Hydrawerk

Buy it if 1Mpoints per each channel memory is enough for you. Well, If you need a huge memory, you might consider Rigol DS2000, that also has that well-known well-implemented segmented memory (called record & playback function).
Oh shit, yes, it has only two channels. 

It's a gap in Rigol scope range. 

I'm still favourable to both SIGLENT and DS1074z.
I know that the later is a bit underpowered for my needs but is so cheap that I may buy it and see what happens.
And worst, I'm finishing the time for a decision.

[Hydrawerk]

The bandwidth on my SDS2204 exceeds the specification pretty far (it says 200MHz on the label but the bandwidth exceeds 300Mhz).

That's really nice to hear.

I read all your post (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sds2204-mso-review/)  and now I have a couple of questions for you:

(...)

• is it in a too early development stage?

Hey, it was released in November 2013. http://www.siglent.com/en/news/detail.aspx?id=100000065214624&nodecode=119002004
It should be well developed today. But it is not. It is rather embarrassing.

[nctnico]

That's more like announced. The SDS2000 wasn't for sale until early this year and the MSO option was not available since a month of two.
No matter how you try to twist it: every competing oscilloscope with similar features is at least more than twice as expensive.

[tautech]

The bandwidth on my SDS2204 exceeds the specification pretty far (it says 200MHz on the label but the bandwidth exceeds 300Mhz).

That's really nice to hear.

I read all your post (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sds2204-mso-review/)  and now I have a couple of questions for you:
(...)

• is it in a too early development stage?

Hey, it was released in November 2013. http://www.siglent.com/en/news/detail.aspx?id=100000065214624&nodecode=119002004
It should be well developed today. But it is not. It is rather embarrassing.

Accurate Western Market history of product development and release in below post:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/review-siglent-sds2304-a-comparison-of-features-with-rigol-ds2000-series/msg501479/#msg501479[/list]

[don]

That's more like announced. The SDS2000 wasn't for sale until early this year and the MSO option was not available since a month of two.
No matter how you try to twist it: every competing oscilloscope with similar features is at least more than twice as expensive.

I would choose the Siglent over Rigol because I found the Rigol DS4000 quite buggy for its age and price.  However, both were too buggy for me (very subjective). When looking at value (features vs cost for example), consider that many of the "features" simply do no not work. I think this is a big reason price is so low.  They save on SW development cost.  Maybe a perfect tradeoff for your needs but understand paper specs might not work as expected.

[0xfede]

I would choose the Siglent over Rigol because I found the Rigol DS4000 quite buggy for its age and price.  However, both were too buggy for me (very subjective). When looking at value (features vs cost for example), consider that many of the "features" simply do no not work. I think this is a big reason price is so low.  They save on SW development cost.  Maybe a perfect tradeoff for your needs but understand paper specs might not work as expected.

Thanks don for your answer. 

I have to admit that this is my first look at a chinese instrument after a couple of decades of work with the same brands.
I saw some video reviews both of Rigol and Siglent and I was so impressed that I found useful giving those gears a try.
And I need an instrument for the field of course. I don't want to move anymore my calibrated (and pricey) scope from my lab bench.

0xfede

[don]

Set expectations accordingly and hopefully  you'll be fine. After sds2074 I thought the Rigol Ds4014 was the way to go. But I found the 140M memory unuseable in zoom (I'd make an adjustment and machine would take minutes to cycle through queue of zoom adjustments), I found i2C decode only worked on 100ms/div or faster even though sample rate was very fast (so why have 140M memory) and i2c decode did not work with segmented memory. That and unit locked up twice in 2 hrs. I had an issue with cursors in roll mode, no zoom in roll mode.  Maybe my unit was bad, but it drove me crazy for a $2500 USD instrument.   So to me, the 140M, segmented memory and i2c decode did not meet expectations.  I use pretty high end scopes daily so I have fairly high expectations..i'm probably not their target market.  Coming out of school years ago I'd take either of these scopes in a heartbeat and just grind through the issues.

[Hydrawerk]

no zoom in roll mode

This is very common in many scopes including Agilent DSOX2000 series.
I suppose you mean this zoom, do you?

[nctnico]

Changing the timebase on my SDS2204 works just fine to zoom in on a stopped trace in roll mode. The only thing zoom does is display which part of a signal is on screen.

[marmad]

Changing the timebase on my SDS2204 works just fine to zoom in on a stopped trace in roll mode. The only thing zoom does is display which part of a signal is on screen.

Except he means while running in Roll mode.

[marmad]

I found i2C decode only worked on 100ms/div or faster even though sample rate was very fast (so why have 140M memory) and i2c decode did not work with segmented memory. That and unit locked up twice in 2 hrs. I had an issue with cursors in roll mode, no zoom in roll mode.

If you're going to mention specs from a DSO that the OP wasn't actually considering, it might make more sense to compare them to the DSOs he actually asked about:

                    Slowest speed for decode / Decode segmented memory? / Zoom in Roll mode / Cursors in Roll mode
Siglent SDS2000          50ms/div                 Not currently                  No                   Yes
Rigol DS1000z           100ms/div?                Not currently?                 No?                    ?

Maybe a DS1000Z owner can fill in the details which I don't know/am not sure about?

[nctnico]

Does it make sense to have zoom in roll mode? I think roll mode is incompatible with zoom by definition. Zoom works like a delayed timebase; in roll mode there is no trigger event so there is no time reference to point a zoom window to.

[marmad]

Does it make sense to have zoom in roll mode? I think roll mode is incompatible with zoom by definition. Zoom works like a delayed timebase; in roll mode there is no trigger event so there is no time reference to point a zoom window to.

  We already had this whole discussion once already (since it seems to be a big deal for Don) - over in the "Siglent's new product- MSO/SDS2000 Series" - with me making exactly the same point that you're making now. But apparently, there are some DSOs that do it - and Wuerstchenhund posted images from his LeCroy WaveRunner 64Xi managing to do it.

I have to say, it's not a function that I would need often - but it would come in very handy from time to time.

[don]

The reason I mentioned the issues I had was because nctnico  said you had to pay 3x the price of Rigol or Siglent to get equivalent function.   This may be the case on paper.  And  I tried the two scopes thinking that was the case, but found out it wasn't entirely true.  Reason being the scopes were very buggy or lacked features I have come to know as standard (yes, like zoom in roll mode! ).  I didn't even know there were scopes that didn't zoom in roll mode...and it's one of my favorite features.  Anyway, since Oxfede is not a newcomer to scopes  I wanted to share my experiences.  Some people don't mind bugs and happily work around them.  I'm generally like that but when bugs are unpredictable and numerous I don't trust the equipment and get frustrated.

[marmad]

The reason I mentioned the issues I had was because nctnico  said you had to pay 3x the price of Rigol or Siglent to get equivalent function.   This may be the case on paper.  And  I tried the two scopes thinking that was the case, but found out it wasn't entirely true.  Reason being the scopes were very buggy or lacked features I have come to know as standard (yes, like zoom in roll mode! ).  I didn't even know there were scopes that didn't zoom in roll mode...and it's one of my favorite features.  Anyway, since Oxfede is not a newcomer to scopes  I wanted to share my experiences.  Some people don't mind bugs and happily work around them.  I'm generally like that but when bugs are unpredictable and numerous I don't trust the equipment and get frustrated.

What is odd is that the Rigol DS2000 seems, in many ways, more advanced - and bug-free - than the DS4000, even though it costs much less (and shares much of the same firmware). It does decode segmented memory - and it doesn't seem slow when zooming around the 56M (although, granted, it's not as big as 140M). I guess it got more attention from Rigol because it was their big seller - at least for awhile.

[don]

The reason I mentioned the issues I had was because nctnico  said you had to pay 3x the price of Rigol or Siglent to get equivalent function.   This may be the case on paper.  And  I tried the two scopes thinking that was the case, but found out it wasn't entirely true.  Reason being the scopes were very buggy or lacked features I have come to know as standard (yes, like zoom in roll mode! ).  I didn't even know there were scopes that didn't zoom in roll mode...and it's one of my favorite features.  Anyway, since Oxfede is not a newcomer to scopes  I wanted to share my experiences.  Some people don't mind bugs and happily work around them.  I'm generally like that but when bugs are unpredictable and numerous I don't trust the equipment and get frustrated.

What is odd is that the Rigol DS2000 seems, in many ways, more advanced - and bug-free - than the DS4000, even though it costs much less (and shares much of the same firmware). It does decode segmented memory - and it doesn't seem slow when zooming around the 56M (although, granted, it's not as big as 140M). I guess it got more attention from Rigol because it was their big seller - at least for awhile.

Agreed, and equally as strange - you can spend almost $9k on a 4000 series at high bandwidth.  Not sure how they can compete at that price point with their current firmware (going on 2yrs?)

[0xfede]

@don

Anyway, since 0xfede is not a newcomer to scopes  I wanted to share my experiences.

Thank you for that. I appreciate your experiences and is exactly what I'm looking for on these fora.

I'm generally like that but when bugs are unpredictable and numerous I don't trust the equipment and get frustrated.

Me too. And of course the researh for huge marketing/advertisement driven feature stop the research for the most basic and fundamental.
But as I said it happened to me on a well known high end brand.


@nctnico

Does it make sense to have zoom in roll mode? I think roll mode is incompatible with zoom by definition. Zoom works like a delayed timebase; in roll mode there is no trigger event so there is no time reference to point a zoom window to.

It makes perfectly sense to me since I use roll mode lot of times. But IMHO is not a big problem to stop the scope and zoom.


@marmad
Thanks for your reviews. I found them very interesting

I have to say, it's not a function that I would need often - but it would come in very handy from time to time.

I agree here. And IMHO this is an example of an easy to implement feature dropped for more exotic ones.

0xfede

[0xfede]

Last evening I finished reading the three scopes manual (Agilent, Rigol and Siglent).

As far as I can see all of three have their own limitations:

• Agilent has small memory and the higher price.
• Rigol is just sampling @.25 GS/S when all four channels are enabled and with 30kwfps max is the slowest.
• Siglent is still too new and has some bugs and is unclear if its bandwidth will be (buying an option)  upgradable.

I've a quote for the first two and I'm awaiting the third.

The weekend is coming and I've two days left to decide.

[tautech]

Siglent is still too new and has some bugs and is unclear if its bandwidth will be (buying an option)  upgradable.

The BW upgrade option has not been offered by Siglent, however I have sent them an email for clarification.
I am unaware if BW is set by code or HW. Obviously if set by HW....return to base if upgrade is available or offered, IMO unlikely.
Hopefully we have a prompt reply.

As you have been doing some homework and see the engagement from Siglent re the latest bugs, are they such a concern knowing Siglent is addressing them?

[0xfede]

The BW upgrade option has not been offered by Siglent, however I have sent them an email for clarification.
I am unaware if BW is set by code or HW. Obviously if set by HW....return to base if upgrade is available or offered, IMO unlikely.
Hopefully we have a prompt reply.

Thanks for your time tautech.

As you have been doing some homework and see the engagement from Siglent re the latest bugs, are they such a concern knowing Siglent is addressing them?

I'm certainly pleased by the fact that Siglent is actively present on this forum and is addressing the concerns of the SDS2000 owners.
However I can't see the future and the time is running low.
Next week I'll restart working at full thrust.

[0xfede]

I am not sure, In fact, the bandwidth is limited by software, so I think it is not a problem. We do not have this option now, but if many customers want this function, I think we can consider to add it.

Well, I'm adding this info to the valutation.
And I'm awaiting for the final price from Italian distributor.

Again thanks for your time tautech.

[Hydrawerk]

What is odd is that the Rigol DS2000 seems, in many ways, more advanced - and bug-free - than the DS4000, even though it costs much less (and shares much of the same firmware). It does decode segmented memory - and it doesn't seem slow when zooming around the 56M (although, granted, it's not as big as 140M). I guess it got more attention from Rigol because it was their big seller - at least for awhile.

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/rigol-mso4000-and-ds4000-tests-bugs-firmware-questions-etc/

[0xfede]

Now I have all three prices and three days left to decide.

This will be an hard decision.     

[Hydrawerk]

Agilent (oh, Keysight) scopes just do what you expect them to do according to the user manual, especially when DSOX2000 and DSOX3000 are three years old so almost all bugs are fixed now, but there have never been many of them.