Brymen BM869, short review (small update added 2013-01-19)

[jancelot]

If the BM867 computer interface doesn't work straight away you can try windows virtualization via VMware Workstation or Virtualbox. It's being used currently for software which requires windows xp 32 bits, so you can run it on windows 8 64 bits, linux or mac.

Those wondering about the probes, I think is much better to have a set of them, one gold plated extreme quality for electronics work and another from rough stainless steel for high voltages where sparks can occur. Probably they should ship the two with the multimeter! You can add to it a second temperature probe and an amperimetric clamp for a more complete set.

I find the BM257 still big enough for carrying around. I think I would get a pocket multimeter instead of for general use (if there is any good). Not sure how much difference is between the 257 and a pocket multimeter (card or pen size). The  Kyoritsu KEW1009 looks nice too.

The 869S is still a high pricey due to euro/dollar change, about 260€ VAT and shipment included to the EU. The shop http://www.118volt.it sells it for a few euros less.

The last digit of the 869 is more to detect when a value starts to rise or decrease, than for accuracy purposes (for example monitoring the charge/discharge of a battery). Of course if you don't want to know that a mm with less counts will satisfy you.

[Hydrawerk]

Brymen is also sold rebranded as Metrel. http://www.metrel.si/products/digital-multimeters-current-clamps-voltage-testers/digital-multimeters.html

[TheBay]

I'm looking at getting a Bryman from TME, how much did it cost to the door for the BM869?

I received a BM869S this week from tme.eu, with an impressive next day delivery, I ordered about 11am on Monday and it arrived Tuesday before 10am. So TME's shipping is good, but I had difficulty registering, which is mandatory. Maybe it's just me, but having to go through the register, wait for email, verify email, order process is a right royal PITA, and unnecessary: I just want to place the order and go. As a result I have now ended up with two accounts, one of which will remain dormant.

Anyway, my question is, what is the difference between the BM869 and the BM869S?

[Howardlong]

I'm looking at getting a Bryman from TME, how much did it cost to the door for the BM869?

I received a BM869S this week from tme.eu, with an impressive next day delivery, I ordered about 11am on Monday and it arrived Tuesday before 10am. So TME's shipping is good, but I had difficulty registering, which is mandatory. Maybe it's just me, but having to go through the register, wait for email, verify email, order process is a right royal PITA, and unnecessary: I just want to place the order and go. As a result I have now ended up with two accounts, one of which will remain dormant.

Anyway, my question is, what is the difference between the BM869 and the BM869S?

I can't remember exactly, but it was ordered with my co's VAT number I am sure so it would have been an ex-VAT price and I think TME add on a tenner or so for shipping from memory, it's been a few months since I last ordered from them. Most memorable thing is that if I order before 11am or so it's on my doorstep in the UK the next day.

[mimmus78]

i stumbled onto another website selling brymen 
http://www.118volt.it/en/brymen-bm869-bm867-batch-calibration-check/
there is a small link inside his short review. but sadly ... no 857S for sale

His eevblog id here is

mimmus78

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/profile/?u=27800

Well I have some of 857S in my stock for my 118volt shop ... item is not on catalog because I still need to translate manual to Italian.

[TheBay]

That's incredible. I'll have to find a way to buy it through work.

Have you still got it and how is it performing.

I'm looking at getting a Bryman from TME, how much did it cost to the door for the BM869?

I received a BM869S this week from tme.eu, with an impressive next day delivery, I ordered about 11am on Monday and it arrived Tuesday before 10am. So TME's shipping is good, but I had difficulty registering, which is mandatory. Maybe it's just me, but having to go through the register, wait for email, verify email, order process is a right royal PITA, and unnecessary: I just want to place the order and go. As a result I have now ended up with two accounts, one of which will remain dormant.

Anyway, my question is, what is the difference between the BM869 and the BM869S?

I can't remember exactly, but it was ordered with my co's VAT number I am sure so it would have been an ex-VAT price and I think TME add on a tenner or so for shipping from memory, it's been a few months since I last ordered from them. Most memorable thing is that if I order before 11am or so it's on my doorstep in the UK the next day.

[coromonadalix]

what chipset thoses meters uses are they cirrustech based.   On this forum some one told, it was possible to calibrate the Brymen 869 ??

[retrolefty]

what chipset thoses meters uses are they cirrustech based.   On this forum some one told, it was possible to calibrate the Brymen 869 ??

 Well as Dave defines "calibration is not adjustment", therefore all meters are capable of being calibrated. However any specific meter may or may not be "adjustable".

 

[Lightages]

The chip set is designed by Brymen. Yes, they can be adjusted using a closed case adjustment procedure.

[markone]

The chip set is designed by Brymen. Yes, they can be adjusted using a closed case adjustment procedure.

Have you any document that describe the adjustment procedure ?
Is it involved the USB interfacing cable in that ?

[Lightages]

I have the information on the procedure, but have been asked by Brymen to not release it to the public. Sorry.

[_Wim_]

I have the information on the procedure, but have been asked by Brymen to not release it to the public. Sorry.

Maybe ask Brymen again if it is allowed. I think this could be off great value to potential buyers (and owners off course  )

[PedroDaGr8]

I have the information on the procedure, but have been asked by Brymen to not release it to the public. Sorry.

Maybe ask Brymen again if it is allowed. I think this could be off great value to potential buyers (and owners off course  )

Very few companies will allow this and rightly so. It is VERY VERY easy to screw up a meter without the right equipment. hdon't want to deal with the hassle of extra warranty claims from people screwing up their meters.

[_Wim_]

Very few companies will allow this and rightly so. It is VERY VERY easy to screw up a meter without the right equipment. hdon't want to deal with the hassle of extra warranty claims from people screwing up their meters.

I can understand that if you are a company with a very good dealer network, where it is easy to bring in the unit for calibration. But in the case of Brymen, it already difficult to buy a meter (only through the web as far as I know in Belgium), so service will be a big hassle IF I would ever need it. So far the my unit perform still very good, but providing documentation would at least give some piece of mind, although you are absolutely right it does require quite some $$$ equipment to adjust it to the original accuracy....

[3141592]

The chip set is designed by Brymen. Yes, they can be adjusted using a closed case adjustment procedure.

Have you any document that describe the adjustment procedure ?
Is it involved the USB interfacing cable in that ?

You can find a video (google brymen calibration) detailing the procedure for a different model, I'd guess it's similar for the 869 too (it may also not be). I wouldn't try to mess with it though, without having serious reason and equipment to do so.

[jancelot]

I have the information on the procedure, but have been asked by Brymen to not release it to the public. Sorry.

Maybe ask Brymen again if it is allowed. I think this could be off great value to potential buyers (and owners off course  )

I don't think they want to be bothered again for the same reason and by the same person, and less to feel being pushed to do something that they even can't because of non-disclosure agreements.

[_Wim_]

Guess I only need to "worry" about it when I would actualy need it. For me it way more out of curiosity then anything else, and will follow 3141592 advice to read something more about it, but I do not intend to mess with it...

[markone]

I have the information on the procedure, but have been asked by Brymen to not release it to the public. Sorry.

No problem, it's understandable why you cannot do that in a public forum.

I asked just out of curiosity, right now i do not have any calibration needing, my 869S is working spot on.

[blacksheeplogic]

I have the information on the procedure, but have been asked by Brymen to not release it to the public. Sorry.

Maybe ask Brymen again if it is allowed. I think this could be off great value to potential buyers (and owners off course  )

Very few companies will allow this and rightly so. It is VERY VERY easy to screw up a meter without the right equipment. hdon't want to deal with the hassle of extra warranty claims from people screwing up their meters.

Squealing backlight, secret chipset, and secretive calibration procedure, all justified and forgiven. Forget the link to Dave or the EEVBlog, constructive criticism and feedback is ultimately the only way a company like Bryman's going to step their game up and be taken more seriously.

These meters need to be recalled, fixed and basic service information like calibration procedures need to be published just like the big established players in this field.

[markone]

You can find a video (google brymen calibration) detailing the procedure for a different model, I'd guess it's similar for the 869 too (it may also not be). I wouldn't try to mess with it though, without having serious reason and equipment to do so.

Thanks for the hint, i will search for it.

Right now no reason to procede with adjustments, i'm just wondering about the choice of calibration points and if it's possible to read out the correction table by mean of usb interface cable.

[PedroDaGr8]

I have the information on the procedure, but have been asked by Brymen to not release it to the public. Sorry.

Maybe ask Brymen again if it is allowed. I think this could be off great value to potential buyers (and owners off course  )

Very few companies will allow this and rightly so. It is VERY VERY easy to screw up a meter without the right equipment. hdon't want to deal with the hassle of extra warranty claims from people screwing up their meters.

Squealing backlight, secret chipset, and secretive calibration procedure, all justified and forgiven. Forget the link to Dave or the EEVBlog, constructive criticism and feedback is ultimately the only way a company like Bryman's going to step their game up and be taken more seriously.

These meters need to be recalled, fixed and basic service information like calibration procedures need to be published just like the big established players in this field.

Fluke has secret chipsets I don't see you complaining about their various versions of the LTFU2 chipsets. Their processors (TI MS420) are known but the ADC/chipset is not (all we know is that Linear Technology makes it and that is it).

Calibration procedures are hit or miss, Fluke publishes theirs (at least for the older stuff) but based on my limited searching Keysight does not, Gossen does not, etc. So basically one major player regularly publishes calibration manuals. Not nearly as much of a scandal as you make it out to be.

The backlight issue necessitates a design revision but does NOT even remotely justify a recall. There is no point in recalling over a minor nuisance, it doesn't affect meter performance or life span. Fluke has had many "dark recalls" and even a few things they outright denied for a while (such as the failing SuperCap which they denied for several years before rolling out a recall on it) .

[markone]

Ultimately i'm detecting a huge discrediting effort against BRYMEN and i wonder why 

[Lightages]

Squealing backlight, secret chipset, and secretive calibration procedure, all justified and forgiven. Forget the link to Dave or the EEVBlog, constructive criticism and feedback is ultimately the only way a company like Bryman's going to step their game up and be taken more seriously.

These meters need to be recalled, fixed and basic service information like calibration procedures need to be published just like the big established players in this field.

I think you have a burr up your ass about Brymen. You can dislike them if you want but lets get the facts right.

Every, and I mean EVERY manufacturer has had glitches. A squealing back light capacitor is a problem to some, but does not affect the function of the meter in any way. A squealing back light is more of a problem to the operation of a multimeter than a leaking super capacitor in another big manufacturer's meter? How does this require a recall? How does it affect the function of the meter? Is it annoying to some? Yes....

Calibration information is available to all who ask Brymen directly, and to all calibration labs who have the capability to do a real calibration adjustment. If they release the information to all publicly, they will, and yes I mean will, have people sending back meters that are out of calibration because the user screwed up the meter. Brymen will have no way to prove that the user didn't screw it up by playing with something they don't have any way to do properly. This is perfectly understandable.

Secret chip set? So? Secret? It is a proprietary design that they sell and license to others. There isn't any way of fixing most products in the world that use proprietary chip sets, or programmed chips. This is a surprise or a real problem?

It is interesting that you don't mention the benefits of the BM869. There are no benefits?

[blacksheeplogic]

Squealing backlight, secret chipset, and secretive calibration procedure, all justified and forgiven. Forget the link to Dave or the EEVBlog, constructive criticism and feedback is ultimately the only way a company like Bryman's going to step their game up and be taken more seriously.

These meters need to be recalled, fixed and basic service information like calibration procedures need to be published just like the big established players in this field.

I think you have a burr up your ass about Brymen. You can dislike them if you want but lets get the facts right.

No, what I find interesting is that my comment was twisted in this manner.

There isn't any way of fixing most products in the world that use proprietary chip sets, or programmed chips. This is a surprise or a real problem?

Products are not fixed for a multitude of reasons, Consumer belief, price, the disposable society, availability of parts, lack of service information, DIY screw-up's  just to name a few. While I dislike the use of proprietary chips, often they not the part failed.

Should someone with a $100 meter be expected to spend $250 to have it calibrated because it drifted or was repaired, I guess in the disposable society they are just expected to by another. It's not an economic to repair.

Take it Apart is kind of hollow when even very basic information like cal procedures is hidden. You don't have the right equipment, or knowledge is arrogant.

[Lightages]

No, what I find interesting is that my comment was twisted in this manner.

I wouldn't call it twisting, but rather interpreting?  Maybe that was not your intent to be understood that way, but that is the way it came across. That is the problem of text communications, it leaves much to be interpreted.

Products are not fixed for a multitude of reasons, Consumer belief, price, the disposable society, availability of parts, lack of service information, DIY screw-up's  just to name a few. While I dislike the use of proprietary chips, often they not the part failed.

Should someone with a $100 meter be expected to spend $250 to have it calibrated because it drifted or was repaired, I guess in the disposable society they are just expected to by another. It's not an economic to repair.

Take it Apart is kind of hollow when even very basic information like cal procedures is hidden. You don't have the right equipment, or knowledge is arrogant.

Someone should not expect to try and calibrate  and adjust a 0.02% multimeter without having standards that are 0.002% accurate. Do you have this equipment? Does Brymen prevent you from getting your meter calibrated? Does Brymen control the prices of calibration services? How is any meter disposable because you don't have the $30,000 worth of equipment to calibrate it? Accuracy and confidence in a piece of equipment over years does not end with the first purchase price. ANY piece of equipment that is used for a reference is subject to years of expensive calibrations, not just a Brymen. If you want to have a Fluke or Keysight or an Amprobe or  Keithley and keep it calibrated, it costs just the same to do so or more..