Brymen BM789

[amham]

As a metrologist for many years, and have tested/calibrated thousands of meters etc., most calibration labs will test (read "calibrate") the meter using a Fluke 5520 or similar and if it meets spec there will be no further "tweaking" or customer expected calibration.  You will receive a data sheet with the actual test results.  This is true for a standard cal or 17025 accredited.  BTW, my experience purchasing from TME has been super...quicker ship/receive than domestic USA and at a better price.

[joeqsmith]

Mine is as stable as it an be (one count). Bought in 2021, IIRC.

6 or 9 digit SN?  What firmware revision?   Thanks.

***
Looks like I purchased the two 121GWs from Dave around 11/3/2019.  Dave did offer to send me the latest hardware in exchange for these but I figured it had been a few years since I looked at the prototype and to proceed.  It's possible that their is a difference in the hardware causing the wandering I am seeing.   I can try and add shielding and see if it helps tame it.  Way off topic.

[TheDefpom]

I reviewed the Fluke 289 about a year ago, you can see the stability in my testing:

[EEVblog]

From my testing, Brymen has proven to be right there with the name brands.  Not only some of the most electrically and mechanically robust products on the market but also are withstanding the test of time.

As someone who sells a lot of Brymen's, I can attest that they have a noticeable non-zero long term failure rate. It's not high, but it's certainly not zero.

[giosif]

FWIW, I measured 500mV DC with my 121GW (9 digit SN, running FW 2.04) and the reading was stable.

[Fungus]

As someone who sells a lot of Brymen's, I can attest that they have a noticeable non-zero long term failure rate. It's not high, but it's certainly not zero.

But we don't have any data for Flukes to compare against.

I've certainly seen plenty of people here showing off about how they just sent their Fluke back and got a new one in exchange.

(but I can buy three Brymens for the same money with 99.9% chance of it lasting longer than me)

[GuidoK]

From my testing, Brymen has proven to be right there with the name brands.  Not only some of the most electrically and mechanically robust products on the market but also are withstanding the test of time.

As someone who sells a lot of Brymen's, I can attest that they have a noticeable non-zero long term failure rate. It's not high, but it's certainly not zero.

No brand has a zero long term failure rate.

But we don't have any data for Flukes to compare against.

I've certainly seen plenty of people here showing off about how they just sent their Fluke back and got a new one in exchange.

(but I can buy three Brymens for the same money with 99.9% chance of it lasting longer than me)

My fluke also stopped working after 1,5 years. It was replaced under warranty no questions asked and has been fine ever since (this was in '09 I believe, the meter is from '07, so almost 15 years ago), so I have lots of confidence in that meter, but I have equal confidence in my Brymen.
For the 300% (if not more) price difference if considered same specs same functionality between Brymen and Fluke, I believe you don't get a better meter.
You only get a lot more mumbojumbo that is only interesting for corporate clients that buy these meters in bulk quantity of 100+
If you're not that kind of client (basically if you have to pay your meters with your own money instead of your shareholders money), imho there's no reason to buy a meter from Fluke nowadays.
2nd hand is a different story (but 2nd hand is a lottery, also pricewise), but with 2nd hand you can also buy some other guy's problems. Certainly if bought unseen and not have been able to open up the meter to inspect it in person. Is this important? Yes as the famous fluke limited lifetime warranty (10 years) or the 1 year warranty on their cheaper lines is not transferrable. So if you buy a used fluke no matter how new, you're out of warranty. This goes for pretty much all brands warranties though

[Caliaxy]

Mine is as stable as it an be (one count). Bought in 2021, IIRC.

6 or 9 digit SN?  What firmware revision?   Thanks.

9 digit SN (starting with 210), firmware 2.05. Bought on Amazon US.

[armandine2]

I reviewed the Fluke 289 about a year ago, you can see the stability in my testing:

That stability finding would look good in a report

My meter came with the FlukeView Forms CD software - which worked , or at least uploaded to win7, with the IR version II cable - no joy as yet with win10 [edited, now ok]

[AVGresponding]

From my testing, Brymen has proven to be right there with the name brands.  Not only some of the most electrically and mechanically robust products on the market but also are withstanding the test of time.

As someone who sells a lot of Brymen's, I can attest that they have a noticeable non-zero long term failure rate. It's not high, but it's certainly not zero.

Has anyone dug into why their custom silicon suffers these failures? Firmware corruption (I feel if it were this there'd be a lot more cases)? Ionic contamination of the die? Contamination or damage of the die during manufacture? Charge carrier migration or accumulation? It might be nice to have a failed one decapped/X-rayed, to see if there's anything obvious.

[EEVblog]

As someone who sells a lot of Brymen's, I can attest that they have a noticeable non-zero long term failure rate. It's not high, but it's certainly not zero.

But we don't have any data for Flukes to compare against.

Sure, I'm just saying that problems are certainly there. So don't necessarily expect your Brymen to last 20 years. One of the failure modes seem to be related to some sort of processor die rot.

[EEVblog]

Has anyone dug into why their custom silicon suffers these failures? Firmware corruption (I feel if it were this there'd be a lot more cases)? Ionic contamination of the die? Contamination or damage of the die during manufacture? Charge carrier migration or accumulation? It might be nice to have a failed one decapped/X-rayed, to see if there's anything obvious.

We don't know.
BTW, the Brymen processor is not custom, it's a known brand. I'm under NDA so I can't tell you which one.

[EEVblog]

As someone who sells a lot of Brymen's, I can attest that they have a noticeable non-zero long term failure rate. It's not high, but it's certainly not zero.

No brand has a zero long term failure rate.

Correct.
Just to clarify, "long term" means "didn't fail out of the box". i.e. customer was using it fine and then "something happened". Failures range from just a few months to a few years.

[EEVblog]

I have split the 121GW RF thing to another thread:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/121gw-rf-issue/

[Caliaxy]

As someone who sells a lot of Brymen's, I can attest that they have a noticeable non-zero long term failure rate. It's not high, but it's certainly not zero.

Could you tell us if the failure rate is similar in both models (BM786 and BM235)?

[bdunham7]

Yes as the famous fluke limited lifetime warranty (10 years) or the 1 year warranty on their cheaper lines is not transferrable. So if you buy a used fluke no matter how new, you're out of warranty. This goes for pretty much all brands warranties though

A couple of nits to pick here.  Fluke's warranty on the industrial line of meters is not 10 years, it is 7 years after the cessation of production or 10 years after purchase, whichever is longer.  So if they discontinue the 289 tomorrow, mine (purchased 2010) will have a 20 year warranty.  In the US, AFAIK they don't ask for proof of purchase when you send something in, so as long as there isn't something odd about it or someone else already registered it, they just register it in your name and fix it.  They also send it back with a new calibration certficate with data if you ask for it. 

Also, the warranty on their non-industrial line (11x series, for example) is 3 years, service by replacement only.  You probably will get asked for proof of purchase for those models, which makes sense since unlike the industrial line, the warranty could be over even on a current production model.

In the US, if you buy Brymen-branded meters (as opposed to Greenlee) you effectively get no warranty at all.  All of these differences may not be enough to justify the huge price differential between the two brands for a lot of users, but the two products are not equivalent as to service and warranty, at least in the US.  YMMV and I think the situation is probably almost reversed in the EU.

[GuidoK]

rands for a lot of users, but the two products are not equivalent as to service and warranty, at least in the US.  YMMV and I think the situation is probably almost reversed in the EU.

My bad, I thought the standard fluke warranty was 1 year, but it is 3 years. But both warranties have written that it's not transferrable. Fluke might not make a problem with that on certain meters, but then you are at the mercy of Fluke and not in your right. Here in Europe, they specifically state in the warranty parameters that the original bill of sale is required to proove you're the original owner.
The LCD has 10 year warranty.

The funny thing is, in the EU the price difference between fluke and Brymen is huge, as fluke products are crazy expensive here. Where you get effectively 2 year warranty on a brymen meter.
So a very basic fluke 115 with 3 years warranty is in the EU considerably more expensive (almost 15%, and you get pvc leads instead of gold plated silicone leads) than the flagship bm869S with 2 year warranty (EU legislation is a bit more complex but the common consensus is that for private persons, the warranty on electronics and household equipment is legally 2 years).
If you go for the higher end fluke meters with similar functionality and specs, the difference is 3 or even 4 fold.

So in the US, fluke might have indeed a better business case regarding warranty and their lower? pricepoint (I'm not 100% up to date on US prices). In the US, you have 1 year warranty on brymen meters afaik, where your point of sale will handle that (so if you bought it in europe, you'll probably have to send it back there). that might be a hassle, no personal experience though.

[Electro Fan]

https://www.fluke.com/en-us/support/warranties

[AVGresponding]

Has anyone dug into why their custom silicon suffers these failures? Firmware corruption (I feel if it were this there'd be a lot more cases)? Ionic contamination of the die? Contamination or damage of the die during manufacture? Charge carrier migration or accumulation? It might be nice to have a failed one decapped/X-rayed, to see if there's anything obvious.

We don't know.
BTW, the Brymen processor is not custom, it's a known brand. I'm under NDA so I can't tell you which one.

That just makes me want to see one decapped even more, to search for clues!   

[Hydrawerk]

I bought the Bm789, it is quite good. Some photos coming later maybe.

[Hydrawerk]

Some information on BM789.

I am happy with this DMM. There is no competitive product in this price range.
Capacitance is 9999 counts only and not 60 000. You cannot select manual range.
Beeper is more quiet than on BM829s.
Auto V LoZ has no manual range.
Buttons are rather small.

[BillyO]

What's that enormous low resolution meter?

[Hydrawerk]

What's that enormous low resolution meter?

That is a Brymen BM829s bought in 2016. No calibration was done since it was manufactured.

[mwb1100]

Brymen BM829s is basically a BM869s with 10000 counts instead of 50000/500000.  I believe it has the exact same set of features.  The accuracy specs are a bit relaxed as well (but still 0.08% DCV spec).  The cost is significantly less.

Update: there are some minor differences in the feature set of the BM829s:

  - 15kHz vs 100kHz bandwidth
  - no VFD/low pass filter mode
  - no 4-20%mA current loop mode

  - adds "AutoCheck"/Lo-Z mode
  - adds NVC

Worst of all: the backlight is 30 seconds vs 4 1/2 minutes for BM869s (current shipments)

[BillyO]

Brymens come in a lot of colo(u)rs.  I've seen red, blue and green.  Are there others?

Putting together a chromatic collection might be a good way to reduce my kid's inheritance.