Brymen 257S lost calibration data

[Sjokolade]

Turned on my 257s today and noticed the low battery warning, the meter turned itself on/off a few times so I replaced the both batteries.
Display now shows a 'C_Er' error for a second or two every time I turn meter on.

As the meter has been mostly unused I tought the low battery warning was weird, got my old fluke 12 and both batteries measure 1.5V.
Putting back the old batteries meter works as normal except the 'C_Er' error.

Brymens manual says

Calibration
Periodic calibration at intervals of one year is recommended to maintain meter accuracy. Accuracy
is  specified  for  a  period  of  one  year after calibration.  If  self-diagnostic  message  “C_Er” is  being
displayed while powering on, some meter ranges might be largely out  of  specifications.  To  avoid
mis-leading measurements, stop using the meter and send it for re-calibration. Refer to the LIMITED
WARRANTY section for obtaining warranty or repairing service.

Bought it from Tme 1.1.2015 - sent them a mail and hope the warrany covers calibration error.

Anyway to rescue it without shipping it abroad ?

[Wytnucls]

That meter is obviously defective and TME should replace it at their expense. Hurry up as the warranty expires after 12 months.
Might be worth contacting Brymen if TME plays hardball.

[Lightages]

I agree with Wytnucls. Get it replaced. It should not have lost its calibration data like that. TME should replace it.

[EEVblog]

Very that it lost it's cal data, never heard of that happening before, and this is a very popular meter.

[Lightages]

Yeah, the number of times I have heard of someone having a problem with a Brymen in 5 years, twice now maybe?

[Sjokolade]

Did a few tests comparing against my old Fluke 12. If other ranges is out of specification I don't know.

some meter ranges might be largely out  of  specifications

Forgot to say that the low battery warning was flickering on/off for about 3-5 seconds before the meter turned itself on/off a few times.

Waiting for a reply from Tme, also sent Brymen a mail regarding the problem - guess I will have a reply sometime next week.

[retiredcaps]

Did a few tests comparing against my old Fluke 12.

My second Fluke meter was a Fluke 12.  I bought it from the original owner in near mint condition.  Even though, on paper, the specs aren't great (see attached), mine is within +/- 1mV of my other meters that have 0.05% + 1 specs.

[retiredcaps]

If other ranges is out of specification I don't know.

You probably did this all already, but if your Chinese ref standard is correct at 2.49939, then the Brymen showing  2.521 is out of specification.

Brymen BM257S spec is 0.2% +3d in all DCV ranges.

2.49939 x 0.002 = 0.00499878

2.49939 +  0.00499878 = 2.50438878 => 2.504 + 3 digits = 2.507 (high end bound)

----

If your Chinese ref standard is correct at 5.00143, then the Brymen showing  5.045 is out of specification.

Brymen BM257S spec is 0.2% +3d in all DCV ranges.

5.00143 x 0.002 = 0.01000286

5.00143 +  0.01000286 = 5.01143286 => 5.011 + 3 digits = 5.014 (high end bound)

----

So it looks like your 6V range is out of spec.

The interesting question for Brymen is how the meter knows there is a Calibration error?  Maybe during bootup, the main IC can't read the calibration constants/offsets and thus reports calibration error?

[Sjokolade]

Hehe my old Fluke 12 still performs great except for the morning sickness of the zebra stripes.

When I got my Brymen I also tested it against fluke 12 and the chinese ref standard - as new it was off just as it is now.
I know the 257s is a popular meter with very good quality and in the right price range for novices like me but I was hoping for a meter that would last longer then 11 months and I'm sure most actually do.

Thanks for the math retiredcaps, I had not done my math earlier. 

[retiredcaps]

Hehe my old Fluke 12 still performs great except for the morning sickness of the zebra stripes.

Common problem on older Fluke 80 series I (original).  For a possible fix on your 12, see

http://mrmodemhead.com/blog/fluke-8x-faded-lcd/

When I got my Brymen I also tested it against fluke 12 and the chinese ref standard - as new it was off just as it is now.

Then you got a meter out of spec straight from the factory.  If I recall correctly, Martin's review of the Amprobe AM-160 (another Brymen meter just rebadged) was also out of spec.

[retiredcaps]

The AM-160 in Martin's video is definitely out of calibration.

According to the AM-160 manual, the spec for the 50V DC range and below is 0.02% + 2D.  Note: Martin incorrectly states the specs in his video. See manual for confirmation of the 0.02% + 2 digit.

http://content.amprobe.com/manualsA/AM-140-A_AM-160-A_DMM_Manual.pdf

In Martin's video, it shows 5.0021 for the 5.0000 range (12:05).

5.0000 x 1.0002 = 5.0010 + 2 digits = 5.0012 (upper bound).  Martin's AM-160 is 9 counts out.

In Martin's video, it shows 1.5007 for the 1.5000 range (11:50 - Martin is incorrect in saying the 1.5007 is in spec).

1.5000 x 1.0002 = 1.5003 + 2 digits = 1.5005 (upper bound). Martin's AM-160 is 2 counts out.

So again, it looks like the 5V range and below are out of calibration, brand new out of the box.

[mikerj]

The interesting question for Brymen is how the meter knows there is a Calibration error?  Maybe during bootup, the main IC can't read the calibration constants/offsets and thus reports calibration error?

I'd suspect that cal values are stored with a checksum, and if the checksum fails you get a warning.  Just wondering if oxidised battery contacts caused the initial symptoms (turning itself on and off) and the micro inside had a fit and wiped over some NV data?  Not a great design if this is the case.

[Sjokolade]

Strange thing is that batteries seems fine now, no more low battery warning using the original batteries - no leakage and contacts seems to be just fine. I would think that when you get a low battery warning they last for several hours more and not like mine meter that turned off a few seconds after warning was flickering on/off.

[Sjokolade]

Heard back from Brymen today.

Hi,
 
Your BM257s unit needs recalibration. Please contact the agent for the calibration service.

Best Regards,
Gary Wang
Product Marketing Manager/Brymen

[retiredcaps]

Heard back from Brymen today.

Your BM257s unit needs recalibration. Please contact the agent for the calibration service.

I would have expected the wording to say

Please contact the agent for the warranty service.

[Sjokolade]

Hehe me too, if I have to get it calibrated every 11 months the Brymen 257s is going to be the most expensive meter ever.

[retiredcaps]

Maybe reply back to Brymen explaining that you bought it in Jan 2015 and that you expect it to be fixed under warranty.

[Sjokolade]

I did, explained that it was only 11 months old and asked if the calibration service is for free and linked to this thread.

Since I live in Norway I have to ship it to Tme in Poland I have to pay at least ~35Us$ one way,  I don't think Tme will pay for postage for calibration service.

[retiredcaps]

Since I live in Norway I have to ship it to Tme in Poland I have to pay at least ~35Us$ one way,  I don't think Tme will pay for postage for calibration service.

That is one of the drawbacks of buying online despite the length of the warranty.  Shipping from the seller to the buyer might be heavily subsidized (like China) or a business write-off/expense/tax deduction for companies, but for consumers/buyers, we have to pay the full cost.

You probably want to send it with a tracking number + insurance so that if it gets lost, you have some refund?

If shipping costs too much, you can try to DIY calibrate as Martin did in a follow up video.

[apelly]

Just skimmed this thread, but I've had excellent response just from emailing Brymen.

You have nothing to lose from flicking them a few lines.

[Sjokolade]

Mail from Brymen today.

Hello Pål,
 
We do not deal with TME directly. TME is the distributor of our official importer in Poland. We are not clear about her service conditions offered to users. The conditions of your unit meet the requirements of our warranty terms. We guess TME should be going to offer free calibration service to you. If you do not get that, please let us know. We will talk to our official importer about your case. To offer warranty service to end users is part of the deals out of our business transactions with our official importer.     

Best Regards,
Gary Wang
Product Marketing Manager/Brymen

Perfect,  Thanks to Brymen for warranty clarification and fast reply - my meter meet the requirements of their warranty terms.
Heard nothing from Tme yet, will update thread when they reply.

[Wytnucls]

Calibration is not good enough. The meter is faulty and should be replaced.
You shouldn't have to send the meter back to TME, unless they need it for defect investigation, at their own cost.
Original invoice, with serial number, including pictures of your meter showing the fault should be enough evidence to get a replacement.

[Sjokolade]

Calibration is not good enough. The meter is faulty and should be replaced.
You shouldn't have to send the meter back to TME, unless they need it for defect investigation, at their own cost.
Original invoice, with serial number, including pictures of your meter showing the fault should be enough evidence to get a replacement.

I dont think I can argue with them for not shipping it to them if I want to have it fixed, I guess they have to try to fix it before they eventually can replace it.

I wish I didn't have to send the meter back as shipping both ways perhaps will be close to 70$, as I paid around 105$-110$ for the meter it won't be worth it. I'll rather invest that 70$ + more to buy a Fluke locally, should it fail the shop by law here in Norway has to pay postage both ways if it should fail.

Mail from Tme today.

Dear Customer,

I already informed our claimt department (RMAxxxxxxxxxx).
Please send us device back, we need to check it.
Please advise on the parcel RMA number and address it to:
Transfer Multisort Elektronik Sp. z o.o.
ul. Ustronna 41
93-350 LODZ, POLAND

Thank you.

And my reply

Hi

Do I pay for postage or do you cover postage both ways ?

Thanks

[Sjokolade]

Still no reply from Tme regarding postage for the mail above , I also sent a mail a week or two after the initial mail but still no reply from them.

[retiredcaps]

Still no reply from Tme regarding postage for the mail above , I also sent a mail a week or two after the initial mail but still no reply from them.

Some feedback here on eevblog wrt to TME after sales support mirrors your findings.  That is, they are quick to take your money when you buy a product, but poor to follow up on any issues (after sales support).