Brand new analog scopes from Tektronix/Fluke/Agilent - are they still for sale?

[dom0]

Very unlikely. All caps will have lost their formation by now, wouldn't surprise me if he gets a loud BANG if he just turns it on.

[pascal_sweden]

The scope that my friend bought (Fluke PM3082) works like a charm!

All channels have been individually tested. No problem whatsoever.

Manufacturers didn't spare on high-quality parts at that time. Today it's all about cost reduction.

The scope is crisp white! It looks and works the same as when it came out of the factory.

Vacuum sealing does magic!

[anotherlin]

In fact, chances are good that what you get with "new old stock" will actually be inferior than a well cared for used scope of the same type that has seen somewhat regular use.

As I said before, buying new is not about being "purely rational".
I personnaly own an Hameg 0722 70MHz digital scope, which is quite good material.
However, for my hobbyist use, a 40 euros used HM203 would do just as fine or even better.
It's like why people buy BMW for daily commute, whereas a Toyota would do just as well and for much cheaper (buy and usage).

[oldway]

Vacuum sealing does magic

Non sense 
There is no vacuum sealing at all...this would be the worst thing you could do for electrolytic capacitors leakages, creating a negative pressure between internal pressure of the capacitors and packaging. 

[Wuerstchenhund]

The vacuum sealing does a good job in preserving the scope, and results in a very high chance that all parts will be in working condition.

That's BS. Scopes are not "vacuum sealed" for various reasons, and even if they were, after 20+ years of diffusion there wouldn't be much of a vacuum left. Basic physics.

The scope that my friend bought (Fluke PM3082) works like a charm!

Good for him, but he was probably just lucky.

Manufacturers didn't spare on high-quality parts at that time. Today it's all about cost reduction.

Nonsense. These Philips scopes weren't made in the 60's where over-specification was a pretty common thing, they were made in the '90s which were as cost-conscious times as the modern days. All of these scopes were made to a price-point, and it's pretty naive to think that they were made from something akin to pixie dust unaffected by ageing and deterioration.

Also, parts weren't really better back then, in fact, modern parts are often much more reliable than their older equivalents, all while often also performing better. And the reason the modern parts can regularly be a lot cheaper as well is simply because of technical progress, improvements in manufacturing processes and better/easier access to cheap labor (i.e. China).

The scope is crisp white! It looks and works the same as when it came out of the factory.

Not surprising, since the discoloration of most plastic parts is due to UV radiation from exposure to sunlight, which for obvious reasons was absent from a boxed scope.

Vacuum sealing does magic!

Yeah, right. 

[pascal_sweden]

I didn't mean a complete vacuum of course. That is of course impossible and would lead to implosion
The packaging looks like how they pack medicine tablets. It avoids humidity and preserves the product better than if it would be in open air.

I think we can all agree that this silver-metal-looking vacuum-like packaging contributes to a longer shelf life time. However it is not 100% fail safe. To put it in scientific terms: this kind of packaging is a necessary but not a sufficient requirement to guarantee a long shelf life time.

Given that the original sales price of these scopes was in the range of 2500-5000 EUR or even higher, one counts on good parts. For sure these parts will be higher quality than a brand new 500 EUR value scope. At least they should, if the manufacturer is a responsible vendor

Yes, probably there is some luck involved as well. That's why the price should not be astronomously high. But for 300 EUR I would be willing to gamble, and especially for these Philips warehouse finds, which most likely will be sold for a symbolic price

And then there is still the unboxing experience which you get with these factory sealed scopes. That on it's own is an experience, which you never come even close to with a second hand scope This experience gets even better if the scope turns on and shows a horizontal line on the raster =) No comments on the experience when the scope would not turn on. Bummer!

[edavid]

Very unlikely. All caps will have lost their formation by now, wouldn't surprise me if he gets a loud BANG if he just turns it on.

No way.  We are not talking about a radio from 1920s.  The leakage current increases a little, but that doesn't cause a bang.

[BillW50]

Well for starters, I am far from knowing everything. So we got that out of the way. But what I do know is oxygen is highly corrosive. Keep out fresh oxygen away and that is most of the battle right there. And as far as firing up old electrolytic capacitors... I don't know? I had very good luck firing up old ones from the 70's without a problem. And since the 70's, I only had one electrolytic go bang! And I don't know, it was about 15 years old is my guess. I don't remember any damage to the circuit or anything. Just replace the cap and all is well again.

What I am saying is that in my experience the scare is highly overrated. Sure it could happen. But how often? I would love to hear stories about bad luck with old electrolytic capacitors. As it doesn't look very common to me. I have no doubt that they maybe out of spec by their old age. But they probably do a pretty good job for many years to come.

[pascal_sweden]

Any news from Philips Germany on their upcoming NOS warehouse sale?

[HighVoltage]

Called them yesterday, everyone is on vacation!
Will try again in two weeks

[anotherlin]

Called them yesterday, everyone is on vacation!

The World is falling apart, germans are becoming as lazy as the frenchs !

[pascal_sweden]

In Sweden it is even worse. Some companies, even multinationals, almost completely shutdown for 2 months during the summer holidays. They have to keep the support department running, but in practice this usually means 1 person. I believe that nobody would want to be in the position of that person

[dom0]

Called them yesterday, everyone is on vacation!

The World is falling apart, germans are becoming as lazy as the frenchs !

Not everything is wörk here... although you sometimes get the feeling!

[HighVoltage]

Not everything is wörk here... although you sometimes get the feeling!

Oh, yes, I too sometimes get that feeling that it is work work work!
An old saying in Germany is:
"Schaffe, schaffe, Häusle baue, Und net nach de Mädle schaue!"
Work, work, build a house and do not look at the girls!

[hneve]

An old saying in Germany is:
"Schaffe, schaffe, Häusle baue, Und net nach de Mädle schaue!"
Work, work, build a house and do not look at the girls!

That sounds like southern Germany, right?

[SaabFAN]

And it is

Although I didn't know about that "Mädle"-Part^^

[pascal_sweden]

@HighVoltage:

Please keep us posted when the Germans are back from holidays

Could you also ask them if they have other NOS models in stock? (e.g. PM3382, PM3394)

The PM3394 looks very neat in design, and a NOS unit would fit perfectly on my bench

[tautech]

The PM3394 looks very neat in design.....

Really?
Last century maybe.

Wouldn't you rather have MOST of those buttons in a menu?
And if the're all mechanical?   

[dadler]

Have you considered the General Radio Type 687? It may fit better on your desk with the vertical form factor.

[HighVoltage]

@HighVoltage:
Please keep us posted when the Germans are back from holidays
Could you also ask them if they have other NOS models in stock? (e.g. PM3382, PM3394)
The PM3394 looks very neat in design, and a NOS unit would fit perfectly on my bench

Well, I posted pictures in a different thread of my collection of PM3394B scopes.
For some high voltage measurements, they are better than any other scope that I have tested.
On one of my benches I have 6 of the PM3394B in use at once for analysing purpose.
Even 20 yeras later, they are great scopes.

And when I builöd test stands for clients, I am usually integrating PM3394B (4 Channel) and PM3380B (2 Channel) scopes.

[dom0]

Wouldn't you rather have MOST of those buttons in a menu?
And if the're all mechanical?   

You are aware that these scopes have full digital controls and on-screen menus, yes?

[pascal_sweden]

Well, I posted pictures in a different thread of my collection of PM3394B scopes.
For some high voltage measurements, they are better than any other scope that I have tested.
On one of my benches I have 6 of the PM3394B in use at once for analysing purpose.
Even 20 yeras later, they are great scopes.

And when I builöd test stands for clients, I am usually integrating PM3394B (4 Channel) and PM3380B (2 Channel) scopes.

Could you provide the link to these pictures? When you build these test stands, you source new PM3394B and PM3380B scopes? Or second hand? Where is your NOS supplier for this candy?

[Augustus]

An old saying in Germany is:
"Schaffe, schaffe, Häusle baue, Und net nach de Mädle schaue!"
Work, work, build a house and do not look at the girls!

That sounds like southern Germany, right?

It's an old Swabian song, composed after the war, in the 50s, early 60s I think. Everyone, especially the Swabians, was busy rebuilding the country, wörk wörk wörk wörk wörk, no time for anything else, not even for the girls, apparently 

It's even on YT, though in a slightly more realistic version 

[tautech]

Wouldn't you rather have MOST of those buttons in a menu?
And if the're all mechanical?   

You are aware that these scopes have full digital controls and on-screen menus, yes?

No I wasn't, but why so many buttons?

It took a while to get used to menus within menus with DSO's but I'd never go back to a CRO as my main scope now.
I fondly remember them as a great learning scope and if nothing else I'm thankful for what I learnt using the several I owned.

I've got a PM 3070 and PM 3217 stashed away to fix, guess I'll learn at lot more about these scopes then. 
Gave up CRO years ago, more for the sake that I got tired of fixing them all the time. 

[dom0]

Wouldn't you rather have MOST of those buttons in a menu?
And if the're all mechanical?   

You are aware that these scopes have full digital controls and on-screen menus, yes?

No I wasn't, but why so many buttons?

Dedicated button for every major channel specific function for each channel (the grouped buttons) plus dedicated buttons for major functions like trigger, time bases, operating mode, cursors.