Best arbitrary waveform generator for around $500

[nbritton]

I'm thinking about getting a 300 MHz scope and I'd like to get an arbitrary waveform generator that is matched for the scope. The system bandwidth of the scope is about 230 MHz, and dividing that by ten yields 23 MHz... thus I'm thinking that I should be looking for AWG that can generate up to 25 MHz square waves. What do you recommend? I'd like to stay under $500. Any thoughts on the Siglent SDG2042X?

Edit: also what are the practical advantages of an arbitrary waveform generator vs a regular arbitrary function generator? Is it worth spending a little extra to get the AWG functionality?

[Wuerstchenhund]

thus I'm thinking that I should be looking for AWG that can generate up to 25 MHz square waves. What do you recommend? I'd like to stay under $500.

It depends on what you want, really. In this price class you'll get good basic functionality but the AWG function is often pretty basic, and the included software is mostly crap.

Have a look at the Siglent SDG1025, it should fit your budget and can do square up to 25MHz. Plus it has been on the market for a long time and is now pretty mature.

Any thoughts on the Siglent SDG2042X?

Well, it's not even available yet, but the basic specs look ok. The listed 1GSa/s sample rate seems a bit bogus as it looks to be a 4x oversampled 300MSa/s signal, plus it's only for the standard waveforms (sine, square, pulse, triangle), the arbitrary sample rate is much lower (but that's the case with many low end AWGs). Plus there's the risk of all Siglent gear that it's firmware will be full of bugs and it will them take forever to sort that out, as it has been the case with other Siglent devices.

Edit: also what are the practical advantages of an arbitrary waveform generator vs a regular arbitrary function generator?

As the name says, a AWG can produce arbitrary waveforms, i.e. non-standard waveforms, while a function generator only generates standard waveforms like sine, square and triangle. An AWG allows you to define your own waveforms and load them into the AWG.

Is it worth spending a little extra to get the AWG functionality?

Depends on what you want to do.

[dkozel]

I just bought a Siglent SDG1025 so I'm in agreement with Wuerstchenhund. For me the second channel was a big feature. It's cheaper than your budget and doesn't have too many quirks. Even with the 800 line and the upcoming 2042X they've put out a firmware update recently, and bonus, it has a menu for bandwidth upgrading. The upgrades aren't available, so either there's an announcement coming or the firmware is being shared with the upcoming line which would be great.

For me the arbitrary function was a matter of flexibility. Being able to generate simple baseband IQ signals or record a signal with an oscilloscope and play it back are really nifty features, and very useful for some applications.

[dadler]

Out of your price range, but here are my votes:

Rigol DG4062
Rigol DG1032Z (I used to have one of these, thought it was a great generator! Upgraded to an Agilent)

[nbritton]

Well, the SDG1000 is a toy, as a reliable tool it's really crap. The only thing it's really good at is to create a jittery signal, which is nice for playing around with the jitter analysis tools of my scope, but that's about it.

The money I pad for the SDG1020 was not money well spent. So even if I had 'bricked' the damn thing this would not have been a huge loss (and I'm sure even then it could be revived by removing the flash and flashing it externally). So there was nothing bold in what I did.

Why are you giving the SDG1000 praise in this thread and bashing in the other thread?

[nbritton]

Is the 125 MSa/s on the SDG1000 enough fidelity to reproduce a sine or other arbitrary waveform at 25 MHz? That would seem to only be 5 samples per clock at 25 MHz. Doesn't seem like enough.


Is $500 a reasonable amount for this type of device, or should I up my budget?

[jhufford]

I'm in the market for a function gen too. And I'm considering the SDG1025 as well as the 2000 models. I'm willing to spend the $900 for the 2122X model, if it's worth it.

Why does the 2000 series have such a measly arb sample rate (75MSa/S), while sporting a 1.2GSa/S rate on the built-in waves.  But the 1000 series has 125MSa/S for both. The 5000 series has 500MSa/S for both. Ideas?

Thanks.

[rf-loop]

I'm in the market for a function gen too. And I'm considering the SDG1025 as well as the 2000 models. I'm willing to spend the $900 for the 2122X model, if it's worth it.

Why does the 2000 series have such a measly arb sample rate (75MSa/S), while sporting a 1.2GSa/S rate on the built-in waves.  But the 1000 series has 125MSa/S for both. The 5000 series has 500MSa/S for both. Ideas?

Thanks.

2000X working principle is totally different compared to SDG800, 1000 and 5000 series!
SDG2000X do not jump over data points.  It is not ordinary fixed clock and fixed Arb memory lenght as Siglent model series without X and many other brands DDS Arb what use this simple working principle.  There is good to read articles available example from Agilent (Keyshit)

If think ordinary DDS Arb with fixed 125 or 100 or 500  or 250 or what ever sampling speed there is allways one sample period time jitter (exept example with sine wave or some other waveforms what are  not generated from arb data point table at all.

SDG1000. Lets go tto over simplified but it may give some idea what is going on there...

Maximum Arb frequency is 5MHz. Arb memory lenght is fixed 16kpoints. It "walk" over this 16000 memory up to 5000000 times in one second. Lets calculate first thing.
16000 x 5000000. It is 80000000000.

Do it have time to set output level 80000000000 times in one second? (Sampling speed is fixed 125000000 times in one second.)  Really not at all.

What is going on... 80000000000/125000000=640.  Oh no and wow...what a hell...

Do it mean it can read only every 640th point in arb memory.... or what. How it is possible. (and endless loop of noobs questions)

At this time you can go and read theory books how Arb generators different working principles do it. Reading only is not enough. These need also understand.

SDS1000 have 125MSa/s system... and with max arb freq 5MHz there is just one 8ns "time slice" for 640 memory points. Only solution is that it NEED jump over Arb memory points. And in practice, it do it, and many of other brand simple DDS Arb generators do just same.

SDS2000X have only 75MSa/s and there is claim it do not miss sample points...
How it is possible?   Its working principle is NOT fixed clock and fixed memory lenght... just as before, now is time to go study more about how different Arb working principles solve this.

And also 7 points wink: SDS2000X DAC's  works out with 1.2Gsa/s.

A. Study, get experience, study, get experience, study..  Repeat A until individual time for dementia start. (kind of sarc.)

[Wuerstchenhund]

2000X working principle is totally different compared to SDG800, 1000 and 5000 series!
SDG2000X do not jump over data points.  It is not ordinary fixed clock and fixed Arb memory lenght as Siglent model series without X and many other brands DDS Arb what use this simple working principle. 

It's been a long time when I had an SDG1000 so I can't really remember (and I didn't make much out it's arbitrary function anyways) but being able to use variable sample clock and a variable amount of sample memory on the SDG2000X is really nothing new, even in this price class. The Rigol DG1000z can do that, and I'm sure the DG4000 (which has been on the market for a pretty long time now) can as well. It's also pretty standard for the AWGs from the big brands (except maybe LeCroy, as they are selling rebranded Siglent SDG1000/5000 AWGs).

So you're saying that even the Siglent SDG5000 uses a fixed clock and memory only? If so then this makes me really glad I didn't buy one.

[rf-loop]

2000X working principle is totally different compared to SDG800, 1000 and 5000 series!
SDG2000X do not jump over data points.  It is not ordinary fixed clock and fixed Arb memory lenght as Siglent model series without X and many other brands DDS Arb what use this simple working principle. 

It's been a long time when I had an SDG1000 so I can't really remember (and I didn't make much out it's arbitrary function anyways) but being able to use variable sample clock and a variable amount of sample memory on the SDG2000X is really nothing new, even in this price class. The Rigol DG1000z can do that, and I'm sure the DG4000 (which has been on the market for a pretty long time now) can as well. It's also pretty standard for the AWGs from the big brands (except maybe LeCroy, as they are selling rebranded Siglent SDG1000/5000 AWGs).

So you're saying that even the Siglent SDG5000 uses a fixed clock and memory only? If so then this makes me really glad I didn't buy one.

Who have told it is something new? 
It is new in Siglent series of generators and Siglent have done it with they own way.

Do you know that my own 40 years ago made pulse generator is very good. My 30kEur Agilent spectrum analyzatror is total crap junk...etc.  What is good or crap and junk depends what we hope and need.

Why I buy SDG1000 if I can not accept 8ns cycle-cycle arb or pulse mode designed jitter what is specified. If I need less than 0.1ns jitter and I buy SDS1000 for this need I can not tel SDS1000 is crap junk. I can tel I'm stupid and crap when I do not understand what I'm buying and so lazy that do not first study and design and after then do. 

My opinion is that SDG1000  is still good for many purposes and one of best in its price class overall.
Many many times I personally need much much better equipment but many times also SDG1000 is well enough.

[Wuerstchenhund]

Who have told it is something new? 
It is new in Siglent series of generators and Siglent have done it with they own way.

[...]

Why I buy SDG1000 if I can not accept 8ns cycle-cycle arb or pulse mode designed jitter what is specified. If I need less than 0.1ns jitter and I buy SDS1000 for this need I can not tel SDS1000 is crap junk. I can tel I'm stupid and crap when I do not understand what I'm buying and so lazy that do not first study and design and after then do. 

My opinion is that SDG1000  is still good for many purposes and one of best in its price class overall.
Many many times I personally need much much better equipment but many times also SDG1000 is well enough.

Not sure what you're getting so excited about. I certainly don't blame the SDG1000 for what it is, its specs or the sample clock and memory size limitations, because I think for its age (it's an older design now after all) and its price range its still a good offering.

However, I would have thought that the SDG5000, which much newer and more expensive and supposed to be in the same class as the Rigol DG4000, wouldn't suffer from the same limitations re. sample clock and memory length, and the fact that it seems to do is pretty poor.

Just out of curiosity, I guess the AWG in the SDS2000 comes with a similar sample rate/fixed memory length limitation as the SDG1000?

My 30kEur Agilent spectrum analyzatror is total crap junk...etc.

What model would that be?

[fanOfeeDIY]

I am not good at arbitrary function generator but I see this model at the shop with reasonable price.

GW Instek AFG-2000
http://www.gwinstek.com/en-global/products/Signal_Sources/Arbitrary_Function_Generators/AFG-2100_AFG-2000

[Wuerstchenhund]

I am not good at arbitrary function generator but I see this model at the shop with reasonable price.

GW Instek AFG-2000
http://www.gwinstek.com/en-global/products/Signal_Sources/Arbitrary_Function_Generators/AFG-2100_AFG-2000

20MSa/s sample rate and 4k memory? Wow, that's pretty pathetic for a device that in its cheapest variant (5MHz) costs around $300:
http://www.newark.com/gw-instek/afg-2005/signal-generator-arb-function/dp/79T9494?ost=GW+Instek+Afg-2005

Even the cheapest Siglent AWG (SDG805) goes for $50 less and offers much better specs:
http://www.tequipment.net/Siglent/SDG805/Function-Generator/

Plus GW Instek's support generally sucks. Not just like Siglent and Rigol (which take care of easier problems although there's a lot of room for improvement), it really sucks, i.e. close no non-existent.

[nctnico]

Generally speaking: every time I looked at GW instek I noticed it is very expensive rebranded low end (far below Siglent and Rigol) gear.

[wraper]

Generally speaking: every time I looked at GW instek I noticed it is very expensive rebranded low end (far below Siglent and Rigol) gear.

Can you say what particularly? I'm not aware of GW instek rebranding anything, only the opposite way - GW instek gets rebranded and sold under more expensive brands. Also QC at instek is far better than both Rigol and Siglent.

[BloodyCactus]

Id take instek > rigol + siglent any day for comparative gear.

saying that, I have a Rigol 1032Z, I dont use the arbitrary much so cant comment on it, but its square wave beyond say 10mhz is crap. at its max supported 15mhz is pure crap, its just a sine wave! it has great memory depth for its arbitrary stuff but not really the bandwidth/speed to do precision stuff thats non sine!

[nctnico]

Generally speaking: every time I looked at GW instek I noticed it is very expensive rebranded low end (far below Siglent and Rigol) gear.

Can you say what particularly? I'm not aware of GW instek rebranding anything, only the opposite way - GW instek gets rebranded and sold under more expensive brands. Also QC at instek is far better than both Rigol and Siglent.

www.ebay.com/itm/LCD-VARIABLE-REGULATED-DIGITAL-DC-POWER-SUPPLY-30V-3A-/110674399053
http://uk.farnell.com/gw-instek/gps-3030d/power-supply-dc-30v-90w/dp/2071104

[wraper]

Generally speaking: every time I looked at GW instek I noticed it is very expensive rebranded low end (far below Siglent and Rigol) gear.

Can you say what particularly? I'm not aware of GW instek rebranding anything, only the opposite way - GW instek gets rebranded and sold under more expensive brands. Also QC at instek is far better than both Rigol and Siglent.

www.ebay.com/itm/LCD-VARIABLE-REGULATED-DIGITAL-DC-POWER-SUPPLY-30V-3A-/110674399053
http://uk.farnell.com/gw-instek/gps-3030d/power-supply-dc-30v-90w/dp/2071104

They are completely different power supplies of completely different quality. Don't you see completely different displays, additional switch for current ranges? Nothing similar on the back too. This is 20 years old model BTW. Rigol didn't even exist back then.

[nctnico]

They look similar enough to come from the same factory. Minor differences between the models don't change the factory where they are made!

[Wuerstchenhund]

Id take instek > rigol + siglent any day for comparative gear.

I wouldn't, and I'm not exactly a fan of Siglent or Rigol. And that is if there even is any comparative gear, which often there isn't because the GW Instek counterparts comes with outdated specs from a bygone era.

saying that, I have a Rigol 1032Z, I dont use the arbitrary much so cant comment on it, but its square wave beyond say 10mhz is crap. at its max supported 15mhz is pure crap, its just a sine wave! it has great memory depth for its arbitrary stuff but not really the bandwidth/speed to do precision stuff thats non sine

How exactly did you come to the conclusion that it is a sine wave? If your DG1032z produces really a sine wave when in square mode then it's defective, or you're doing something very wrong. At the moment my money is on the latter as my DG1062z (which has similar performance specs) produces a perfectly fine square wave within the limits of its specifications.

[tautech]

Also QC at instek is far better than both Rigol and Siglent.

Not wanting to get into a shit fight  but your evidence for this claim? 
Equipment failure % ? Component quality?  Build quality?

[Wuerstchenhund]

Generally speaking: every time I looked at GW instek I noticed it is very expensive rebranded low end (far below Siglent and Rigol) gear.

GW Instek gear always reminds me on kit I've seen from other brands 15 years ago, and the specs are often from a similar era.

I also can't remember that they ever came up with something remarkable.

Also QC at instek is far better than both Rigol and Siglent.

No, it isn't. In my direct environment there are quite a few GW Instek devices, and while the general build quality is OK-ish (not great, still better than Atten), I've seen quite a few of QC issues (i.e. loose missing screws on a scope, loose PSU on another, and a good number of DOAs). The support was also less than stellar (actually pretty much the worst in T&M I've ever seen, and I've seen a lot!) and pretty much for most part really didn't give a shit. Rigol and Siglent are far from perfect and leave a lot to be desired, but in terms of QC where they are today is a much better place than where GW Instek has ever been in its existence.

Seriously, I wouldn't know why anyone would ever consider them, unless you're a Taiwanese who wants to shop patriotically. Their gear's specs are from OK-ish to awful, the prices are at least as expensive (usually even more) than better-spec'd gear from other brands, the quality often isn't up to standard and the support is poor. If they were to close tomorrow, I don't think it would be a huge loss.

[wraper]

They look similar enough to come from the same factory. Minor differences between the models don't change the factory where they are made!

LOL. Power supplies in this form factor come from dozens of Chinese factories.
EDIT: considering the age of these series of Instek PSU's, quiet likely that others just cloned their look. That Mastech one is quiet decent among them actually. Most of them are useless and dangerous crap. BTW Instek gear is produced in Taiwan unlike those Chinese cheapies.

Similar???

[wraper]

Generally speaking: every time I looked at GW instek I noticed it is very expensive rebranded low end (far below Siglent and Rigol) gear.

GW Instek gear always reminds me on kit I've seen from other brands 15 years ago, and the specs are often from a similar era.

I also can't remember that they ever came up with something remarkable.

Look at their new GDS-1000B series oscilloscopes (if not considering hacking, beats DS1000Z in almost every way including price, unfortunately no options for purchase available), GDS-2000A oscilloscopes. But yes, they were slow to update their product lines when Rigol DS2000 series came but their entry level scopes remained like DS1000E for many years.

[Wuerstchenhund]

I also can't remember that they ever came up with something remarkable.

Look at their new GDS-1000B series oscilloscopes (if not considering hacking, beats DS1000Z in almost every way including price, unfortunately no options for purchase available), GDS-2000A oscilloscopes.

Not sure the GDS1000B really beats the DS1000z in almost every way, as the Rigol has more memory (12/24Mpts vs 10Mpts on the GDS1000B), plus it's also cheaper:

http://www.newark.com/gw-instek/gds-1054b/oscilloscope-4-ch-50mhz-1gsps/dp/51Y5253
http://www.tequipment.net/Rigol/DS1054Z/Digital-Oscilloscopes/

The only positive I can see on the GDS1000B is that FFT uses up to 1Mpts compared to a few thousand points with the Rigols (all of them up to the DS6000) and the digital filter, and I haven't yet seen a GDS1000B in the wild but I'd guess FFT at full 1Mpts will be dog slow due to the large amount of data that needs processing (which the processors found in these low-cost bottom-of-the-barrel scopes can't perform in reasonable speed). The GDS1000B is listed with a higher waveform rate (50k vs 30k for the Rigol) but I doubt that makes much of a difference. Plus based on what I've seen with other GW Instek products I would trust them with their firmware even less than Siglent or Rigol.

But yes, they were slow to update their product lines when Rigol DS2000 series came but their entry level scopes remained like DS1000E for many years.

Yes, but the DS1000E offered the right amount of features for its time and was priced right, both which isn't often the case with GW Instek gear.