Bench LCR Recommendations?

[KungFuJosh]

I'm interested in getting an accurate bench LCR meter. Preferably under $500. Is there anything good in that range? It seems like the price jumps pretty quickly with these.

I already have the DE-5000, the Shannon tweezers, and a couple others. But I want another bench meter. Blame TEAS. 🤷

Thanks,
Josh

[mawyatt]

Doubt you'll find anything new much better than your DE-5000 in that price range, maybe look used.

We acquired a Tonghui TH2830 a few years ago for ~$850, this is an excellent lab grade bench LCR meter, superb build quality with meticulous attention to detail and a host of features. This and the higher frequency (and much more expensive) Hioki IM3536 are our Lab Grade Bench LCR meters.

If you can somehow swing for the TH2830 you won't be disappointed, and we've developed some routines for sweeping and plotting for this LCR as well as the ability to do external DC Bias measurements and so on. If you search for this meter, LCR fixtures and "mawyatt" you'll find what we've done. Forgot to mention ours has 5 digit frequency resolution, so you can set measurement frequency to 100.01Hz, 1.0001KHz, or 99.999KHz for example, and it's correct!

There' something about measuring a reference 4.7pF COG 0603 cap at 4.6718pf 10/28/21, then on 4/9/22 at 4.6872pF with an added DC bias adapter and the IM3536 at 4.6864pF, then 5/15/22 at 4.6885pF, then 12/23/22 at 4.6844pF that gives one confidence in these Lab Grade Bench LCR meters, call this addiction quest for precision and not in a controlled environment, just next to my desk in direct path of AC, with WiFi, phones and such 

Anyway, good luck with your LCR addiction quest

Best,

[KungFuJosh]

Doubt you'll find anything new much better than your DE-5000 in that price range, maybe look used.

We acquired a Tonghui TH2830 a few years ago for ~$850, this is an excellent lab grade bench LCR meter, superb build quality with meticulous attention to detail and a host of features.

AliExpress has a couple of the TH2830s new for about that price. Not sure if I should trust that tho lol.

I was also looking at a used Hioki 3522-50. Any thoughts on that one?

I also should probably waste some money on kelvin test clips too, right? For the quest!

[coromonadalix]

About them form Ali

theere was this warning


CAUTION!!!!! Do not purchase from any AliExpress site, none are authorized resellers of any Tonghui Products. OEM Tonghui will not honor the factory warranty if you purchase from an unauthorized site.


??  check before buying ...


come from this thread

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/measuring-small-capacitance-with-ks34465a-th2830/

[mawyatt]

AliExpress has a couple of the TH2830s new for about that price. Not sure if I should trust that tho lol.

May be better to get from an authorized source. Make sure you get the included Kelvin Clips and Leaded Test Fixtures, and the Shorting Bar. A bad seller may try and charge extra for these, they should come with the unit, ours did!!

I was also looking at a used Hioki 3522-50. Any thoughts on that one?

Nice LCR but will be expensive relative to the TH2830, and likely not significantly better, we have the IM3536 because of the frequency range up to 8MHz, thus paid the price for this extended range which we needed.

I also should probably waste some money on kelvin test clips too, right? For the quest!

If you acquire one of these lab grade Bench LCRs, you'll want the direct BNC fixtures as they eliminate a lot of the measurement uncertainty (no cables). The TH2830 comes with really nice Kelvin clips TH26011CS (and leaded fixture TH26048A), the IM3536 came without any fixtures but the Tonghui fixtures fit and work fine, as do some of the SMD fixtures we've employed, they all are on standard 3/4" BNC spacings.

Edit: Forgot to mention, the Hioki IM3536 fan is loud, much higher than anything we have in lab. Evidently this is normal as we complained to the distributer and they ran a test with another IM3536 they had, and it was also very loud

Not sure if other Hioki LCR bench meters have this is issue, so beware if acoustic noise is a concern. This alone has limited our use of the IM3536, otherwise it's a superb instrument covering 4Hz to 8MHz!!

Anyway, good luck with your LCR Meter decisions.

Best,

[HighVoltage]

If you are open to used equipment, look for a FLUKE PM6303A, they are sometimes available for around $500

[mawyatt]

Here's some related threads regarding LCR meter fixtures and such.

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/projects/bias-network-for-lcr-meter

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/lcr-meter-plot-software

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/cheap-smd-lcr-fixture-the-good-bad-and-ugly

This link doesn't work, just use search for "cheap smd lcr fixture the good bad and ugly"

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/smd-test-fixture-modifications

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/quality-lcr-measurements-at-1mhz

We did some measurements of ceramic chip capacitors and noted the classic variation wrt applied DC voltage which became handy in evaluation of which ceramic type capacitor, size and which vendor to use for a customer, and recently kludged up a thermal means to sweep temperature and study the effects of such on leaded devices. These Bench type LCR meters with proper fixtures are quite useful indeed!!

Now we're investigating a means to do temperature sweeps of SMDs, if folks are interested and would like to participate let us know.

Best,

[KungFuJosh]

I don't see ANY dealers for TongHui in the USA. The closest I found was somebody in Canada for $1200, or somebody else in New Zealand $900 shipped. But I don't know that any of them are authorized resellers anyway. The seller on Ali I'd be ordering it from has been there for 12 years, with good feedback. What's the concern, just warranty, or does somebody think they're fake or something weird like that? I wouldn't pay double just for a warranty.

Other options would be something like:
Matrix MCR-5200 $625 (incl. tax + shipping from Amazon)
Used Hioki 3522-50 maybe around $700, no probes included.

[mawyatt]

Amazon is showing TH2830 for $900 here in US, at least you'll have Amazon if that helps with any issues. Probably just the warranty issues, altho we haven't had anything other than original firmware upgrade. If you check the build quality it's superb, so one wouldn't expect any hardware issues, and the fan is quite, unlike like the IM3536 altho the IM3536 seems quality built as well, just fan noisy

Also note the TH2830 comes with the TH26048A Leaded Fixture ($100), TH26011CS Kelvin Clips ($82) and TH26010 ($27) Shorting Bar. I wouldn't worry about LCR Meter clones, this LCR meter is too complex for a simple clone, however there are many clones of the various Tonghui fixtures, we have a couple (SMD and Leaded Fixtures) and they aren't too bad.

Believe both Tonghui and Hioki are OEM suppliers to some of the top tier equipment companies, like Siglent with LeCroy, so one would expect quality products from them.

If we were buying again, would get the TH2830 from Amazon, but YMMV.

Best,

[KungFuJosh]

I saw the one on Amazon, except it's still shipped and sold by a company in China. So there's no real benefit unless they don't ship the item. The return policy would be theirs, not Amazon's. If it were shipped or sold by Amazon, that might make it worth it. The other thing is that photos in that ad don't show any extra toys that are supposed to come with it.

[KungFuJosh]

Are any of the East Tester bench LCR meters worth looking at? Maybe the ET4410 or ET4510? Or does the DE-5000 kill them all?

What about the Matrix MCR-5200 I mentioned, does anybody have any experience with that one?

Thanks,
Josh

[gitm]

I have the MCR-5100.  Bought it on Amazon for $500.  I got it and found that its specifications were actually that of the MCR-5200 and went to 200 kHz even though it is badged as MCR-5100.  Just checked Amazon and found the seller removed the $500 MCR-5100 and now only lists the MCR-5200 for $619 and the 10 kHz version for $390.

I'm pleased with the unit.  Clean user interface.  I'm finding it to be reliable in it's measurements, even with very small capacitance and inductance values.

I will say that they tried to give it the look and feel of the Keysight E4980AL unit, but its not a Keysight.  There are several videos on youtube reviewing it.

[gitm]

There is a MCR-5200 review showing the guts at the 18 minute mark of this video https://youtu.be/w3epmSrk6Ts

[NoMoreMagicSmoke]

Are any of the East Tester bench LCR meters worth looking at? Maybe the ET4410 or ET4510? Or does the DE-5000 kill them all?

What about the Matrix MCR-5200 I mentioned, does anybody have any experience with that one?

Thanks,
Josh

On paper the East Testers look good. I recently purchased an ET432 and DE-5000, and the paper specs of the ET don't seem to match reality. https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/east-tester-et432-vs-der-ee-de-5000-comparison/msg4864928/#msg4864928

[KungFuJosh]

I have the MCR-5100.  Bought it on Amazon for $500. 

Man, for $500 I wouldn't hesitate with that one.

On paper the East Testers look good. I recently purchased an ET432 and DE-5000, and the paper specs of the ET don't seem to match reality.

I saw your thread, that's why I'm skeptical of the ET stuff. I was hoping the bench meters were better than the ET432.


I want the Tonghui TH2830, primarily because it sounds reliable and comes with good quality fixtures, but it's $825, and it will ship super slow.
I like the range of the MCR-5200, but it doesn't come with great fixtures, and it's $626. If I buy nicer fixtures, it will cost as much or more than the Tonghui.
I like the price of the ET4510 ($475 on Amazon), but same deal with mediocre fixtures, and maybe not great real world specs/reliability.

Why doesn't Siglent have a $400 LCR bench meter out yet with the same specs as the TH2832? 🙄

[Martin72]

When siglent would offer a lcr-benchmeter, I couldn´t imagine it will cost 400 bucks...

ET benchmeter:

I had a ET4410 (100khz), thinking about to buy it again for finishing reverse engineering I´ve started(sold  it as I got the chance to buy a (defective) hioki LCR).
Tested it against our calibrated lcrs at work, a keysight handheld U1733C and a sourcetronic bench-lcr, which is 100% identical to the mentioned Tonghui...

Two threads I´ve started, a kind of review of the ET4410:

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/east-tester-et4410-desktop-lcr-meter/msg3989009/#msg3989009

ET4410 ESR measures:

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/east-tester-et4410-esr-measure/msg4282126/#msg4282126

[KungFuJosh]

When siglent would offer a lcr-benchmeter, I couldn´t imagine it will cost 400 bucks...

ET benchmeter:

I had a ET4410 (100khz), thinking about to buy it again for finishing reverse engineering I´ve started(sold  it as I got the chance to buy a (defective) hioki LCR).
Tested it against our calibrated lcrs at work, a keysight handheld U1733C and a sourcetronic bench-lcr, which is 100% identical to the mentioned Tonghui...

Two threads I´ve started, a kind of review of the ET4410:

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/east-tester-et4410-desktop-lcr-meter/msg3989009/#msg3989009

ET4410 ESR measures:

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/east-tester-et4410-esr-measure/msg4282126/#msg4282126

Siglent would definitely offer something nice under $500. I'd bet up to $1 USD on that. 😉

I actually read your threads in their entirety, which is why I'm tempted by the ET4410 for about $232 on ali. I was considering the ET4510, but it costs twice as much found one for about $340, and I don't need the smaller stepping, and I don't think I need to go under 100Hz.

My use is most commonly for guitar and pro audio component testing (most often for testing before building, less often for repair). Inductance mostly of guitar pickups, wah wah inductors, etc.

The price is the most attractive part of the ET4410, but the higher quality/range and fixtures that come with the TH2830 are really tempting. I'll probably end up buying both and returning one..or not. TEAS is gonna kill my wallet.

BTW- I'm curious, what was your impression of the kelvin probes that came with the ET4410? Are they reasonable on their own, or did they get tossed immediately?

Thanks,
Josh

[Martin72]

Hi Josh,

I don't have negative memories of them, although I mostly used the Test Fixture (which I borrowed from the sourcetronic lcr).
These were the same cables as you can buy them individually for 10...20 bucks.
The building quality of the sourcetronic/tonghui is unlikely "better" - But that´s expectable at this price.
By the Et4410, the bias voltage is included, by the sourcetronic you must buy it as a option (don´t know if the tonghui got it for free).
For this (sourcetronic)you can buy a software, which probably also works...
Good chances that it will work with the tonghui also.
BTW, sourcetronic:

Accessories which should also fits to the tonghui:

https://www.sourcetronic.com/shop/en/lcr-meters/accessories/

Our sourcetronic bench-lcr:

https://www.sourcetronic.com/shop/en/lcr-meters/st2830/

Edit:
Correction:

This is the 100% similar device:

https://www.sourcetronic.com/shop/en/lcr-meter-st2832.html

[mawyatt]

We have Tonghui, B&K and No-Name LCR fixtures, the Tonghui are definitely in a different class. The BNCs, cable, cable termination/splitting, Kelvin clips, utilized are considerably better overall than the No-Name equivalents.

For example the Tonghui Kelvin clips are smaller, have cable strain reliefs, no heat shrink, the cable entry on each "arm" derived from a short ~10" small thin, colored coaxial cable exiting from a cover/box which covers the main ~30" thicker cable splitting into 4 colored  coaxial cables. The main thick cable enters a fixture/box with strain relief which hosts the 4 quality BNC connectors, no fiddling with 4 separate BNC connector/cables involved. These are the best Kelvin clips/fixture we've come across, and suspect others are rebranding such.

The B&K leaded BNC Fixture is OK, but not as nice as the Tonghui, but does have more adapters which are convenient.

The No-Names like the individual Kelvin Clips with BNCs are OK, and a good value. We've reworked a pair of these to work with our DMMs adding Banana jacks instead of BNCs.

Like we've said; "Sometimes you get more, seldom much more, often less than you paid for"

Best,

[KungFuJosh]

It sounds like the Tonghui is the best deal, considering the quality of the meter and the fixtures. I think I'm going to order the TH2830 from aliexpress. I emailed tonghui about getting it in the US, we'll see if they respond before I get impatient and place an order.

Thanks,
Josh

[EE4all]

Be sure to report back either way. I am curious who their official reseller is.

[pope]

I'm also interested in your experience with the TH2830 once you get it

[KungFuJosh]

Be sure to report back either way. I am curious who their official reseller is.

Well...
I emailed them this:
"I’m interested in purchasing a TH2830 LCR meter. I live in the United States. Where should I buy the meter from? I’m also curious, I assume the firmware is upgradeable, where can I get the newest firmware from?"

Their response:
"If you are interested in our 2830 machine, you can buy the machine directly with us. The firmware is upgradeable, if you need the latest firmware version, you can ask us for it."

Naturally, they didn't include a price or a link for the firmware. 🙄 So, I responded asking for a price quote, and a link for the firmware. We'll see what they say. I also filled out a price request on their website. It appears their only official seller for the US, is themselves.

I hope their price isn't crazy. I found a reputable seller on aliexpress that offered me the TH2830 with DHL express shipping for $780. That's pretty tempting.

I'm used to dealing with Siglent, who is usually really good about making the firmware available. This whole "ask us for it" thing rubs me the wrong way.

I'm also interested in your experience with the TH2830 once you get it

lol me too. 😉 I'll definitely post my experience with it.

Thanks,
Josh

[JohanH]

I have the ET4410. See my other post for pictures. I don't have the DE-5000, so I can't compare. But I like it. It starts fast and is easy to use. Display is good. Price is what I could afford for hobby use. Maybe for pro use, I would recommend a more expensive meter. Depends on actual needs.

Resistance is very consistent compared to my Agilent 34401A. They seem to be within 0.02% of each other (measured a batch of resistors a few different values). The 34401A has higher resolution and more digits, so sometimes it's more useful for resistance measurement (but that's beginning of metrology territory). An example (100R 0.1% resistors):

ET4410  33401A
99.97    99.9502
99.98    99.9673
100.00  99.9802
100.02  100.0007
100.02  100.0041

The Agilent isn't calibrated, so I don't know which instrument to trust more, but this is very little difference and it's consistent also in other ranges.

The Kelvin clips supplied with the ET4410 can't be compared with expensive clips, but work actually fine and are better than some really cheap ebay Kelvin clips that I use with the 34401A. If you are using it professionally, then it's probably worth buying some pro clips. Now I want to get some better Kelvin clips for the 34401A, the ones I have are actually crap.

[KungFuJosh]

I have the ET4410. See my other post for pictures.

I saw your thread as well. Between you, Martin72, and the tediousness of communicating with Tonghui, I'm tempted to get the ET4410. I can get it for $232. But, still, the fixtures, etc.


I heard back from Tonghui:
"The price for TH2830 is $ 965 (exclude the transportation expense), the machine is already with the latest firmware."

I responded:
"Why is it less expensive on aliexpress? They told me $780 with express shipping. also, I like the Siglent company. They make firmware and support easier. It is odd to me to make the firmware hard to get. Unfortunately, Siglent doesn't make LCR meters."

Now I wait again and see if they respond.

In the meantime, another seller with a decent rating on ali has offered my the TH2830 for $650 with DHL shipping. I might just go for that. 🤔

Thanks,
Josh