Mr. Carlsons LV Capacitor Leakage Tester! It's finally out!

[Harb]

When Harp says "I am not demanding anything", he lies, he uses blackmail insulting members to force them to pay US $ 2, saying, "You can say what you like, the fact remains you are all to stingy to pay the patreon fee to find out for yourselves, so live with it."
The same request to pay the $ 2US fee is repeated systematically in almost all his posts.

He also lies when he says, "I just think about its unfair to judge something and belittle its usefulness without knowing anything about it."
We have the list of components, we know it's an extremely simple circuit with 2 transistors and 3 x 9V batteries.
The limitations of such a simple circuit are obvious.
They have already been mentioned several times, I will not quote them again.

We also know how it works by Mr Carlson's videos.

Dave has instructed to discuss only the technical points.
Harp has diverted this topic by launching non-technical topics.

He insulted me by questioning my competence by saying: "..lets see what sort of engineer you really are." ... to doubt the competence of a member who has more than 2000 posts and more than 260 thanks, it's insulting.

Harp has taken over from electro-detective and he's doing worse than him.
Electro-detective had received a severe warning, Harp only a mild one .... Why is it not the same with Harp as with electro-detective ?

As above

[PA4TIM]

Everybody has his own reasons to do some tests on caps and all are valid. If in doubt or if we want to learn more we can discuss it in this forum and so learn from each other.
The power of this community is to discus things. Strange enough everybody likes teardowns and reverse engineering, hacks etc but for some strange reason it is ok to do that for well known brands or batterisers, solarroadways, free energy bullshit etc but not for the tester from this topic. Also a commercial product (over 3000 patreons who donate 2,= a month, the commercials on his website and channel make him a commercial business) People like Joe test meters out of is own pocket, but even if he would design something I had doubts about, I would discus it the same way and he would agree or come with sound arguments why I am wrong. And so everybody benefits. Dave is also commercial but he is open about it.

I am best in analog electronics and component behavior but needed more knowledge about 90's digital stuff and without the help of (in this case) a Dutch forum, it would have take me much more time to learn. For most the practical experience of the members.
 
I test capacitance, DF, leakage and use datasheets as reference. For me these test are part of the trouble shoot procedure and I have my reasons for doing it the way I do. Like Joe has his reasons for a complete different application. For Oldway, BD139 etc goes the same. Based on their knowledge and experience and application they found a way that suites there application best.

This discussion was/is not useless, it learned me a few new things and that alone is a good thing ( for me, and I hope for others too )
I know some people probably try to get it locked but that would be a bad day for open source and knowledge sharing.

[Gyro]

I'm sure Mr Carlson is feeling highly embarrassed at the moment about the sort of mystical cult status that his 2 transistor, 9 resistor and 3 capacitor circuit is being whipped up into by certain members of this forum. 

He probably made a mistake releasing the BOM, complete with component values, there is a very limited number of ways that so few basic bricks can be assembled (Cliff Matthews postulated the two most likely in Reply #33). It's simply not possible to come up with some amazing new testing innovation based on that parts list.

I bet he wishes the whole mess would go away and he could quietly go back to receiving $2 donations from people who either don't have the knowledge, or don't want the hassle of drawing up a schematic for themselves.

Mr Carlson probably didn't do himself himself any favours by titling the video "Invention Release! Carlson LV Capacitor Leakage Tester." but I'm sure he doesn't welcome the damage that his 'fanboys' are causing him. He must surely have seen this thread, maybe it would be worth him registering (if he isn't already) and asking them to stop.

Either way, the state of this thread has become embarrassing - other than the rather useful technical document attachments [Edit: and associated discussions] that keep popping up, that is. We could do with more of those.

[oldway]

All I can say is I will leave it at that, there is no technical discussion here in regards to Mr Carlsons New Cap tester, only the old type HV ones, no one has come up with anything at all in regards to possible circuit diagrams to even speculate anything at all.....the whole argument is based on needing to test Capacitors at rated voltage, this is not so now....maybe before this tester came along, but not now, he has taken a good long look at another way to do it, and I among others have taken the time to build this device and test it comparing it to other established testers and it has given the same result again and again, I will leave it here because as the saying goes "you can take a horse to water, but you cant make him drink" . good luck with it all concerned, but to say I am shocked that people are not willing to give a new way a go surprises the heck out of me in an industry that is driven by advancement.....well I thought so up until now anyway.
And that is all I have to say about that.

With a few pieces of wood, a bit of fabric and a motorcycle engine, you're not doing a supersonic airplane .... that's what you're trying to say here.

With 2 transistors and 3 batteries, Mr Carlson would have made a revolutionary and miraculous capacitor tester  .... with  perlinpinpin powder probably ? 

You are on a serious electronic forum, you better should stop with your bullshit and stop taking members of this forum for fools. 

[Harb]

All I can say is I will leave it at that, there is no technical discussion here in regards to Mr Carlsons New Cap tester, only the old type HV ones, no one has come up with anything at all in regards to possible circuit diagrams to even speculate anything at all.....the whole argument is based on needing to test Capacitors at rated voltage, this is not so now....maybe before this tester came along, but not now, he has taken a good long look at another way to do it, and I among others have taken the time to build this device and test it comparing it to other established testers and it has given the same result again and again, I will leave it here because as the saying goes "you can take a horse to water, but you cant make him drink" . good luck with it all concerned, but to say I am shocked that people are not willing to give a new way a go surprises the heck out of me in an industry that is driven by advancement.....well I thought so up until now anyway.
And that is all I have to say about that.

With a few pieces of wood, a bit of fabric and a motorcycle engine, you're not doing a supersonic airplane .... that's what you're trying to say here.

With 2 transistors and 3 batteries, Mr Carlson would have made a revolutionary and miraculous capacitor tester  .... with  perlinpinpin powder probably ? 

You are on a serious electronic forum, you better should stop with your bullshit and stop taking members of this forum for fools. 

Read the above oldway.......and calm down before you bust a poopa valve

[Electro Detective]

All I can say is I will leave it at that, there is no technical discussion here in regards to Mr Carlsons New Cap tester, only the old type HV ones, no one has come up with anything at all in regards to possible circuit diagrams to even speculate anything at all.....the whole argument is based on needing to test Capacitors at rated voltage, this is not so now....maybe before this tester came along, but not now, he has taken a good long look at another way to do it,

and I among others have taken the time to build this device and test it comparing it to other established testers and it has given the same result again and again,

I will leave it here because as the saying goes "you can take a horse to water, but you cant make him drink" . good luck with it all concerned, but to say I am shocked that people are not willing to give a new way a go surprises the heck out of me in an industry that is driven by advancement.....well I thought so up until now anyway.
And that is all I have to say about that.

Good words and wise move to drop it gracefully mate, don't let anyone sink in the boots     

Rest assured you were not alone here, but that's just how it goes,  sometimes we just have to agree to agree to disagree...
or else 

Enjoy the LV thingie, I'll get on to knocking one up too asap... and give it a worse canning than the gents here can imagine if it's a dud

and should have blown the $2 on a Scratchy Ticket instead       

[Harb]

All I can say is I will leave it at that, there is no technical discussion here in regards to Mr Carlsons New Cap tester, only the old type HV ones, no one has come up with anything at all in regards to possible circuit diagrams to even speculate anything at all.....the whole argument is based on needing to test Capacitors at rated voltage, this is not so now....maybe before this tester came along, but not now, he has taken a good long look at another way to do it,

and I among others have taken the time to build this device and test it comparing it to other established testers and it has given the same result again and again,

I will leave it here because as the saying goes "you can take a horse to water, but you cant make him drink" . good luck with it all concerned, but to say I am shocked that people are not willing to give a new way a go surprises the heck out of me in an industry that is driven by advancement.....well I thought so up until now anyway.
And that is all I have to say about that.

Good words and wise move to drop it gracefully mate, don't let anyone sink in the boots     

Rest assured you were not alone here, but that's just how it goes,  sometimes we just have to agree to agree to disagree...
or else 

Enjoy the LV thingie, I'll get on to knocking one up too asap... and give it a worse canning than the gents here can imagine if it's a dud

and should have blown the $2 on a Scratchy Ticket instead       

all good mate, just make sure you follow the construction instructions very carefully and stick to the techniques Paul uses......its really important as the device is so sensitive.......cheers

[PA4TIM]

https://www.edn.com/design/analog/4364022/Circuit-lets-you-test-capacitors
Here a schematic of a two transistor and 1 opamp LV ?(6V) leakage tester.  The article is from 2011 and the principle is certain different as the HV ones. I do not think this one is better but it is creative.

Do I understand well that If I would pay the 2 bucks I am not allowed to tell how it work or show the schematic.

Harb,  in that case, just show us the pcb you build, or is that also illegal in your country ? 

Funny, i have a rather big collection of documented bad caps but DC leaking caps are hard to find but Harb has a bucket full of them.

An electrolityc cap leaks by nature. The oxide layer has a "self healing" nature. The first forming is done in the factory straight after etching the foil. Thew only way to do this is minimum at the WV. The factories use a higher voltage because you want it to work at the  working voltage, not break down.

If long not used the layer gets thinner and leakage increases.  Caps are not as bad as most people think.  It is more due to using the wrong caps in the wrong way at the wrong location.

For those who care: The parameters that are important:
- leakage, not the most common but it can be the most dangerous one. Datasheets state it for a certain time and at working voltage. Problem is that leakage can be the result of the "normal" leakage of the oxidelayer but at a certain voltage becomes a breakdown. Normal leakage is handled by reforming and normal use, breakdown can kill a cap. The breakdown voltages can drop fast after that. So you want to see what the current does at the applied voltage. So a 500V cap can go short at 5V, Pauls meter will see that but if it breaks down at 400V you need a normal leakagetester (adjustable voltage, current reading)
- capacitance, a function from the amount of foil, the etching (increase surface) and the thickness of the oxide layer. Measured nowadays most times at 100 or 120 Hz
- Dissipation Factor, D. the tan-d of the loss angle caused bij the real part of the impedance. Also called ESR because you can see it as a sort of series resistance. It is measured at the same frequency as the capacitance. The datasheet shows frequency and nominal and limit values.
- Impedance, Z, the reactance of C plus the reactance of the ESL (equivalent series inductance) and the real part (the ESR) This is calculated to get the absolute |Z|. This is stated in the datasheet often at 100 kHz. (this is not the ESR but the impedance)
For solid or dry electrolytics they sometimes give the ESR at 100 kHz, (but ESR fanboys (their god is Dick Smith) are as hard to talk to as LV leakage tester fans)
But it can be a handy tool if used right. Again ESR is stated as D, DF, tan d or ESR at the same frequency as C.
- Self resonance frequency, the frequency the reactance of L and C are equal. What left is, is the ESR and the slope of the ESR (and so the value) has nothing to do with it.
- ripple current handeling. By most people a totally overlooked parameter but in smps's a very important one. It is stated in the datasheet. Be careful, they also state correction tables for frequency.
So using your ESR meter, some general "tabel" and replacing it by some low esr cap can be a very bad idea. Low ESR is not absolute defined.
- temperature, ESR goes down by higher temps, leakage goes up. There are 85, 105 and 120 degrees celcius caps.
- size, in theory this influences ESR, ESL and ripple handling and breakdown voltage and cooling.

Any body has something to add ?

I just replaced 7 caps in my 1968 Tek 576. one cap was dead, 400 nF instead of 4200 uF. No leakage. I bought the best I could find (on specs like current, and lifetime, it took me a few ours to select them) and replaced them all because it is a real pain to reach them. Non surprising the DF of new caps was not as good as the still healthy old ones. Total recapping is only a good thing on bad designs with marginal caps. So most consumer stuff. There are applications where low ESR is a bad thing but most times it is a good thing so always look up the datasheets before replacing caps in well designed and build gear.

[Harb]

https://www.edn.com/design/analog/4364022/Circuit-lets-you-test-capacitors
Here a schematic of a two transistor and 1 opamp LV ?(6V) leakage tester.  The article is from 2011 and the principle is certain different as the HV ones. I do not think this one is better but it is creative.

Do I understand well that If I would pay the 2 bucks I am not allowed to tell how it work or show the schematic.

Harb,  in that case, just show us the pcb you build, or is that also illegal in your country ? 

Funny, i have a rather big collection of documented bad caps but DC leaking caps are hard to find but Harb has a bucket full of them.

An electrolityc cap leaks by nature. The oxide layer has a "self healing" nature. The first forming is done in the factory straight after etching the foil. Thew only way to do this is minimum at the WV. The factories use a higher voltage because you want it to work at the  working voltage, not break down.

If long not used the layer gets thinner and leakage increases.  Caps are not as bad as most people think.  It is more due to using the wrong caps in the wrong way at the wrong location.
The parameters that are important:
- capacitance, a function from the amount of foil, the etching (increase surface) and the thickness of the oxide layer. Measured nowadays most times at 100 or 120 Hz
- Dissipation Factor, D. the tan-d of the loss angle caused bij the real part of the impedance. Also called ESR because you can see it as a sort of series resistance. It is measured at the same frequency as the capacitance. The datasheet shows frequency and nominal and limit values.
- Impedance, Z, the reactance of C plus the reactance of the ESL (equivalent series inductance) and the real part (the ESR) This is calculated to get the absolute |Z|. This is stated in the datasheet often at 100 kHz. (this is not the ESR but the impedance)
For solid or dry electrolytics they sometimes give the ESR at 100 kHz, (but ESR fanboys (their god is Dick Smith) are as hard to talk to as LV leakage tester fans)
But it can be a handy tool if used right. Again ESR is stated as D, DF, tan d or ESR at the same frequency as C.
- Self resonance frequency, the frequency the reactance of L and C are equal. What left is, is the ESR and the slope of the ESR (and so the value) has nothing to do with it.
- ripple current handeling. By most people a totally overlooked parameter but in smps's a very important one. It is stated in the datasheet. Be careful, they also state correction tables for frequency.
So using your ESR meter, some general "tabel" and replacing it by some low esr cap can be a very bad idea. Low ESR is not absolute defined.
- temperature, ESR goes down by higher temps, leakage goes up. There are 85, 105 and 120 degrees celcius caps.
- size, in theory this influences ESR, ESL and ripple handling and breakdown voltage and cooling.

Any body has something to add ?

I just replaced 7 caps in my 1968 Tek 576. one cap was dead, 400 nF instead of 4200 uF. No leakage. I bought the best I could find (on specs like current, and lifetime, it took me a few ours to select them) and replaced them all because it is a real pain to reach them. Non surprising the DF of new caps was not as good as the still healthy old ones. Total recapping is only a good thing on bad designs with marginal caps. So most consumer stuff. There are applications where low ESR is a bad thing but most times it is a good thing so always look up the datasheets before replacing caps in well designed and build gear.

Sorry this thread is over for me in regards to the Design,Use and theory of Operation of the Cap tester....if you want further info look up "Mr Carlsons lab" on Patreon

[PA4TIM]

Sorry this thread is over for me in regards to the Design,Use and theory of Operation of the Cap tester....if you want further info look up "Mr Carlsons lab" on Patreon

How convenient 

[bd139]

He's a magician. Of course it is!

[EEVblog]

This thread has been locked because some people couldn't avoid the personal attacks.