Analog Discovery 3 or budget bench setup

[RAPo]

I think it would help if the OP described in somewhat more detail the elements of her/his curriculum.

But you have to start somewhere in order to follow the course so you have to check if the AD is "enough for the course."

As indicated above, complement it with a DMM and PS, and be prepared to write off the AD in one or two years and step up the ladder.

I have an AD3 and a well-equipped bench. The bench devices get more use than the AD3, but the pattern generator and impedance analyzer for low frequencies from the AD3 are very useful.

[hao004]

I think it would help if the OP described in somewhat more detail the elements of her/his curriculum.

But you have to start somewhere in order to follow the course so you have to check if the AD is "enough for the course."

As indicated above, complement it with a DMM and PS, and be prepared to write off the AD in one or two years and step up the ladder.

I have an AD3 and a well-equipped bench. The bench devices get more use than the AD3, but the pattern generator and impedance analyzer for low frequencies from the AD3 are very useful.

Thanks for the replies! Actually we now have completed quite a number of labs that involved the use of equipment like oscilloscopes, signal generators etc on basics such as diodes, BJTs, op-amps, attenuators, impedance matching circuits, filters and oscillators. The remaining electronic courses are RF communication, DSP, microcontrollers and some electives. The reason I am looking for a test setup is to experiment on other circuits that were not covered in labs like Class A amplifiers and also have some side projects to strengthen my practical skills and to able to design actual hardware instead of just being able to do well on exams.

[Grandchuck]

I suggest you explore REW (https://www.roomeqwizard.com/) when you get to Class A and THD investigations.

[tggzzz]

I think it would help if the OP described in somewhat more detail the elements of her/his curriculum.

But you have to start somewhere in order to follow the course so you have to check if the AD is "enough for the course."

As indicated above, complement it with a DMM and PS, and be prepared to write off the AD in one or two years and step up the ladder.

I have an AD3 and a well-equipped bench. The bench devices get more use than the AD3, but the pattern generator and impedance analyzer for low frequencies from the AD3 are very useful.

Thanks for the replies! Actually we now have completed quite a number of labs that involved the use of equipment like oscilloscopes, signal generators etc on basics such as diodes, BJTs, op-amps, attenuators, impedance matching circuits, filters and oscillators. The remaining electronic courses are RF communication, DSP, microcontrollers and some electives. The reason I am looking for a test setup is to experiment on other circuits that were not covered in labs like Class A amplifiers and also have some side projects to strengthen my practical skills and to able to design actual hardware instead of just being able to do well on exams.

You already have been working on "actual hardware", so that is not a useful discriminant.

Analogue RF is a different world completely, e.g. scopes aren't much use and spectrum analysers become more useful. Important exception: SDR.

Class A amplifiers may or may not be "new circuits", depending on frequency and amplitude. For measuring distortion, consider specialised instruments like a Keithley 2015 THD.

Don't forget that probes become part of the circuit being tested. It is beneficial to know the different classes of probe, why they exist, and where they need to be used.

[RoGeorge]

The remaining electronic courses are RF communication, DSP, microcontrollers and some electives. The reason I am looking for a test setup is to experiment on other circuits that were not covered in labs like Class A amplifiers and also have some side projects to strengthen my practical skills and to able to design actual hardware instead of just being able to do well on exams.

If that is the main intent, I would not recommend any more an educational devboard like Analog Discovery or Adalm2000.

Would be better to have lab instruments.  If the budget is very tight, maybe build the more simple ones, like power supply, a soldering station, a low distortion audio generator, and so on.

Can not say which instruments/brand/model to buy, it's up to your budget.  Keep in mind that most DSO these days have the same hardware inside (for a given series of products), and all the additional software features like extra bandwidth, memory points, logic decoders, etc., can be easily unlocked later.

If I were to start now a new EE lab, I would save money until I'll have enough to buy a 4 channels 12 bits DSO, probably a Siglent.  That's a fully featured professional oscilloscope.  Though, each time a question like "what oscilloscope to buy" pops up on this forum, the pros and cons debates tend to never end so I won't insist why I would prefer that one. 

[tggzzz]

The remaining electronic courses are RF communication, DSP, microcontrollers and some electives. The reason I am looking for a test setup is to experiment on other circuits that were not covered in labs like Class A amplifiers and also have some side projects to strengthen my practical skills and to able to design actual hardware instead of just being able to do well on exams.

If that is the main intent, I would not recommend any more an educational devboard like Analog Discovery or Adalm2000.

Would be better to to have lab instruments.  If the budget is very tight, maybe build the more simple ones, like power supply, a soldering station, a low distortion audio generator, and so on.

I disagree, unless you can enumerate why an AD is insufficient, plus why a set of lab instruments is necessary, plus how much of their time it will take to buy and learn to use those instruments.

Personally I doubt that would make a student much more employable. One year of experience repeated twice does not equal two years of experience! Ditto learning two scopes' foibles.

Any decent employer will be impressed that they

• did more than necessary
• can say what they would do better next time
• can say what they weren't able to do because of the equipment limitations
• and even more impressed if they then found a way to work around the limitations

and will be prepared to train them to use whatever equipment the employer needs them to use on the next project.

[RoGeorge]

Looks to me like the OP already knows the basics, and now would like to rather have an EE lab.  At about the same price as an AD without discount, one can buy instead a Siglent SDS804X HD, and unlock it.  That DSO will be a tool that will serve any EE lab for many years to come.

I didn't compare them side by side, but the new 12bits DSOs seems to be way more capable than an Analog Discovery (thinking of this thread in particular:  https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/sds800x-hd-review-demonstration-thread/ )

[egonotto]

Looks to me like the OP already knows the basics, and now would like to rather have an EE lab.  At about the same price as an AD without discount, one can buy instead a Siglent SDS804X HD, and unlock it.  That DSO will be a tool that will serve any EE lab for many years to come.

I didn't compare them side by side, but the new 12bits DSOs seems to be way more capable than an Analog Discovery (thinking of this thread in particular:  https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/sds800x-hd-review-demonstration-thread/ )

Hello,

I don't think you can compare the two.
Suppose the OP wants to try a Gilbert Cell. With an AD and a breadboard and the necessary components, he can do his experiments.
He can't do that with an SDS804X HD because he doesn't have a power supply, he doesn't have two function generators, but he has a nice scope.
The AD is a small laboratory and not just a scope, and the differential inputs are also very practical.

Best regards
egonotto

PS: An AD and an SDS804X HD and a power supply would be ideal, but that costs more than $250

[RoGeorge]

For a Gilbert cell, a phone charger (or just a USB cable) can be the power supply, and a sound card can be the dual channel generator.  Then the oscilloscope can be used to visualize the signals.

[MiroS]

I am a sophomore EE student and I am interested in experimenting with electronics circuits, particularly amplifier circuits and applications. Should I get the Analog Discovery 3 with student discount ($250) or a budget bench setup consisting of Hantek DSO2D10 ($150, being aware of the potential freezing issues) and Korad KA3005D ($50 from taobao)? I would like to start small first with a budget of $250 and see what I am really interested in down the road.

Invest your time and money  in math, forget about the iron. LTspice is more than you really need at that stage of eduction, use labs of your university ...

[egonotto]

For a Gilbert cell, a phone charger (or just a USB cable) can be the power supply, and a sound card can be the dual channel generator.  Then the oscilloscope can be used to visualize the signals.

Hello,

Good. But next he wants to check the frequency response of an AD620. For this he needs a dual power supply and a higher frequency than a sound card delivers. No problem with an AD.

Best regards
egonotto

[RoGeorge]

Minimum power supply for AD620 is ±2.3 V
https://www.analog.com/media/en/technical-documentation/data-sheets/AD620.pdf

Take 4xAA batteries to get +/-V, or pull out the phone battery and add it in series with the USB charger to make a +5/-4V supply, then use the oscilloscope's generator to display the frequency response (the oscilloscope has an internal generator, and can display Bode plots):


Bode plot from https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/sds800x-hd-review-demonstration-thread/msg5335361/#msg5335361

 

[Antonio90]

The SDS800X-HD doesn't have an internal generator. You can control Siglent brand AWGs or buy the usb generator. There is a python script to control AWGs from a different brand, but it's still an additional expense.
Internal generators on Siglent oscilloscopes begin with the 2000 series, which start at the price of a full basic lab.

[egonotto]

Minimum power supply for AD620 is ±2.3 V
https://www.analog.com/media/en/technical-documentation/data-sheets/AD620.pdf

Take 4xAA batteries to get +/-V, or pull out the phone battery and add it in series with the USB charger to make a +5/-4V supply, then use the oscilloscope's generator to display the frequency response (the oscilloscope has an internal generator, and can display Bode plots):


 

Hello,

the SDS804X HD does not have a built-in generator. You have to buy one separately. It costs more than half the price of an AD3 Akademisch.
What I'm getting at is that the AD is just a complete little easy-to-use lab. You can do everything differently, but it costs extra effort and extra money.
The next application I could mention is the Curve Tracer. Or Data Logger or Logic Analyzer or Pattern Generator or Impedance Analyzer.

Best regards
egonotto

[RoGeorge]

the SDS804X HD does not have a built-in generator

The generator exists, just that it is software-locked, but there are unlocks:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sds804x-hd-same-upgrade-scripts/

[tautech]

the SDS804X HD does not have a built-in generator

The generator exists, just that it is software-locked, ........

Not for Bode plots < permanent use for this feature without any need for licensing.

[RoGeorge]

I might have misunderstood.
Does the SDS804X HD includes the hardware required for Bode plots, or not?

[egonotto]

the SDS804X HD does not have a built-in generator

The generator exists, just that it is software-locked, ........

Not for Bode plots < permanent use for this feature without any need for licensing.

Hello,

then why is there an external Siglent SAG1021I?
And how does the signal get out? There is only one BNC socket at the back and this is for Auxiliary Out and at the front there are only the four inputs.

Best regards
egonotto

[egonotto]

I might have misunderstood.
Does the SDS804X HD includes the hardware required for Bode plots, or not?

Hello,

no.

Best regards
egonotto

[RoGeorge]

Indeed.  My mistake, sorry.
It's the Rigol DHO900S which has the AWG hardware included, but it is more expensive than an SDS800.

[Aldo22]

DHO800 or SDS800X HD are actually off-topic in this thread.
The OP is talking about $250 for Scope with AWG + power supply OR AD3.
The devices mentioned cost twice or three times that.

As I mentioned above, it's really about the question:
Benchtop scope with AWG + power supply OR AD3.

It is true that only the Hantek fits into this budget, but it is not really primarily about the manufacturer.

You may want something "better" than the Hantek at some point, but you may want a benchtop scope and a "real" power supply relatively soon after buying an AD3.
Nothing wrong with the AD3, that's just a guess on my part. 

[tautech]

DHO800 or SDS800X HD are actually off-topic in this thread.
The OP is talking about $250 for Scope with AWG + power supply OR AD3.
The devices mentioned cost twice or three times that.

As I mentioned above, it's really about the question:
Benchtop scope with AWG + power supply OR AD3.

It is true that only the Hantek fits into this budget, but it is not really primarily about the manufacturer.

You may want something "better" than the Hantek at some point, but you may want a benchtop scope and a "real" power supply relatively soon after buying an AD3.
Nothing wrong with the AD3, that's just a guess on my part. 

Strongly disagree.
SDS802X HD is $ 339 and topic includes the words: or budget bench setup

[Aldo22]

Strongly disagree.
SDS802X HD is $ 339 and topic includes the words: or budget bench setup

The OP's original proposal included the power supply and the AWG.

The OP says:

I would like to start small first with a budget of $250.

So for me, $339 + cost of power supply + cost of AWG is clearly off-topic and also not suitable for comparison with the AD3.

[Anthocyanina]

DHO800 or SDS800X HD are actually off-topic in this thread.
The OP is talking about $250 for Scope with AWG + power supply OR AD3.
The devices mentioned cost double or triple that.

As I mentioned above, it's really about the question:
Benchtop scope with AWG + power supply OR AD3.

It is true that only the Hantek fits into this budget, but it is not really primarily about the manufacturer.

You may want something "better" than the Hantek at some point, but you may want a benchtop scope and a "real" power supply relatively soon after buying an AD3.
Nothing wrong with the AD3, that's just a guess on my part. 

I have a rigol 1104z and an AD2. I'm still a student, but i do freelance repair and electronics design on the side. In my case, unless what i'm working on involves very low amplitude or frequencies above  20MHz, I use my AD2 most of the time, so even having a bench scope at hand, the AD2 sees more use in my bench. Of couse, everyone has different preferences when it comes to user interface or just the feel of turning the knobs/pushing the buttons in a standalone instrument, but when it comes to the capabilities of the instrument, the scope in particular, other than for those things i mentioned before (low amplitude, high frequency) what are really the downsides of the AD2? the only thing i can think of is the low waveform update rate, but even some instruments in the 2k$+ price range (tek series 2) exist with slow waveform update rate.

---End response to Aldo22

There's a lot of professional work that can be done within the bandwidth and vertical sensitivity of the AD3, and this is just about the scope "part" of the instrument. The add-on boards expand its functionality significantly, and you don't really need them, you can make your own impedance analyzer board, curve tracer board, and even your own specific purpose boards according t your needs.

You can also do Bode plots, and the differential inputs of the scope come in handy in all sorts of situations. for example, a while ago i took part in a contest by element14 about flyback transformers, and the AD2 made measuring the transformers very easy, and the differential inputs allowed me to measure both input and output current of the flyback converter, with the same instrument, which allowed me to show them time correlated which helped me better demonstrate the working principle than i would have been able to with ground-referenced single ended channels in a standalone 2 channel scope.

I think another significant thing to consider (if you care about stuff like this) is the user experience. If the options are an AD3 or a low cost scope, unless you have a strong preference for physical knobs and buttons, the experience of using the AD3's software "waveforme" is likely to feel a lot better than using a sub 200$ scope as it is intuitively laid out, very responsive, and it also has that "professional" feel to it, which to be fair can be a subjective feel, but most people have described low cost standalone scopes as having a very rough or unpolished "feel" to them. I think this part is an important consideration as having tools that don't feel good to use might result in the person not using that tool unless they have to, which could turn a fun hobby like electronics into more of a chore, OP may not care at all about this, so there's that.

What i would do, having that money right now, and needing/wanting a home lab right now, is try to get a used AD2 instead of the AD3, a bench power supply(actually, i would build my own power supply. I did that as a project for a class years ago, and used that DIY supply for years until i got a "real" bench power supply) and a multimeter, then use that setup, and while that setup is being put to use, also start saving for a nice 4 channel standalone bench oscilloscope in the 400$ range like the siglent or rigol 12 bit offerings

[tautech]

Strongly disagree.
SDS802X HD is $ 339 and topic includes the words: or budget bench setup

The OP's original proposal included the power supply and the AWG.

The OP says:

I would like to start small first with a budget of $250.

So for me, $339 + cost of power supply + cost of AWG is clearly off-topic and also not suitable for comparison with the AD3.

Sure, hobble the OP with equipment that will only ever get him so far.......