Regarding the Europe/VAT ID/non-business concerns, that's an area that I unfortunately can't help or circumvent/shortcut around the official channels/statements. If I could I would 100% have done it already.
Is there any chance you can explain the reasoning behind the change? Keysight's position isn't great, but it would be more palatable if we at least had a reason why. It would be fantastic if you could provide a list of the required criteria for classing a business, but I know this will probably be a bit of a stretch.
Regarding the Europe/VAT ID/non-business concerns, that's an area that I unfortunately can't help or circumvent/shortcut around the official channels/statements. If I could I would 100% have done it already.
Is there any chance you can explain the reasoning behind the change? Keysight's position isn't great, but it would be more palatable if we at least had a reason why. It would be fantastic if you could provide a list of the required criteria for classing a business, but I know this will probably be a bit of a stretch.What do you think about simply registering a business? I get the feeling that this thread is more about a unique situation in the UK where people running a business don't register their businesses formally and now are suddenly confronted by a different culture where having a company formally registered is the norm.
Regarding the Europe/VAT ID/non-business concerns, that's an area that I unfortunately can't help or circumvent/shortcut around the official channels/statements. If I could I would 100% have done it already.
Is there any chance you can explain the reasoning behind the change? Keysight's position isn't great, but it would be more palatable if we at least had a reason why. It would be fantastic if you could provide a list of the required criteria for classing a business, but I know this will probably be a bit of a stretch.What do you think about simply registering a business? I get the feeling that this thread is more about a unique situation in the UK where people running a business don't register their businesses formally and now are suddenly confronted by a different culture where having a company formally registered is the norm.
The issue is it isn't "simply registering a business", it's not just an issue of "getting a piece of paper", running a registered company in the UK comes with significant recurring administrative overhead. It is both unnecessary and disproportionate for many small businesses which is precisely why there are so many sole traders in the UK.
Regarding the Europe/VAT ID/non-business concerns, that's an area that I unfortunately can't help or circumvent/shortcut around the official channels/statements. If I could I would 100% have done it already.
Is there any chance you can explain the reasoning behind the change? Keysight's position isn't great, but it would be more palatable if we at least had a reason why. It would be fantastic if you could provide a list of the required criteria for classing a business, but I know this will probably be a bit of a stretch.What do you think about simply registering a business? I get the feeling that this thread is more about a unique situation in the UK where people running a business don't register their businesses formally and now are suddenly confronted by a different culture where having a company formally registered is the norm.
The issue is it isn't "simply registering a business", it's not just an issue of "getting a piece of paper", running a registered company in the UK comes with significant recurring administrative overhead. It is both unnecessary and disproportionate for many small businesses which is precisely why there are so many sole traders in the UK.So all major corporations should change due to the UK having a half baked system that makes it difficult to register a small company? Assuming your statement about the administrative overhead is actually true (IOW: taking more than 1 day per year to fill in and costing more than say around 300 pounds).
Maybe start hammering the UK government to have some official 'sole trader' status. I see that it is possible to apply for a company VAT ID without much hassle in the UK; that could be a good starting point.
I see that it is possible to apply for a company VAT ID without much hassle in the UK; that could be a good starting point.
Point is Keysight does need to track some sales for ITAR and sanctions? But I can't see a 34470A as a threat, so selling to non-corporate entities is not a crime.
I see that it is possible to apply for a company VAT ID without much hassle in the UK; that could be a good starting point.The problem with that is that once you are registered, you must charge VAT on all sales & services, and submit returns accounting for it. If you mostly supply to business then registering is a no-brainer as you can reclaim VAT on all purchases, but if a significant market is individuals or non-VAT registered businesses then it basically means your prices go up 20%
Regarding the Europe/VAT ID/non-business concerns, that's an area that I unfortunately can't help or circumvent/shortcut around the official channels/statements. If I could I would 100% have done it already.
Is there any chance you can explain the reasoning behind the change? Keysight's position isn't great, but it would be more palatable if we at least had a reason why. It would be fantastic if you could provide a list of the required criteria for classing a business, but I know this will probably be a bit of a stretch.What do you think about simply registering a business? I get the feeling that this thread is more about a unique situation in the UK where people running a business don't register their businesses formally and now are suddenly confronted by a different culture where having a company formally registered is the norm.
Why I can tell ?
Because I just had this mishap and have to prepare all those documents. Furthermore you automatically have to pay accident insurance (at least over here), trade association memberships, etc.
You can be fined up to £2500 for any day which you are without suitable insurance. If you do not display the certificate of insurance or refuse to make it available to HSE inspectors when they ask, you can be fined up to £1000.
I see that it is possible to apply for a company VAT ID without much hassle in the UK; that could be a good starting point.The problem with that is that once you are registered, you must charge VAT on all sales & services, and submit returns accounting for it. If you mostly supply to business then registering is a no-brainer as you can reclaim VAT on all purchases, but if a significant market is individuals or non-VAT registered businesses then it basically means your prices go up 20%
Sure, I could just go ahead and file those, it's not a lot of work ...
Are we living on the same planet ?
I see that it is possible to apply for a company VAT ID without much hassle in the UK; that could be a good starting point.The problem with that is that once you are registered, you must charge VAT on all sales & services, and submit returns accounting for it. If you mostly supply to business then registering is a no-brainer as you can reclaim VAT on all purchases, but if a significant market is individuals or non-VAT registered businesses then it basically means your prices go up 20%Well, you can also ask whether you want to run a business that stays well under the 85000 pound turnover limit forever?
It's an absolute no brainer to VAT register if you're a sole trader, just purely from a financial perspective, unless you sell primarily to customers and the extra sales would make up for the 20% extra cost on supplies.
Returns are quarterly and the only effort on my part is putting them in a folder and maybe telling my accountant what kind of expense they are. Doesn't cost more than a couple hundred a year. Or you can do it for free for some extra paperwork.
Point is Keysight does need to track some sales for ITAR and sanctions? But I can't see a 34470A as a threat, so selling to non-corporate entities is not a crime.
The point isn't whether it is or is not a good idea for the circumstances of a particular business. It is whether an existing business should be forced to do this, incurring ongoing costs and risks, just to get service from Keysight for a Keysight product that Keysight or one of their distributors has already sold them.
In January 2021, Keysight changed it’s company policy when addressing the sales, support or services to consumers and/or private individuals. This includes the provision of technical support, repair, calibration services and the sale of replacement parts. Under this new policy, Keysight can only sell to businesses, and provide services under the terms of the warranty or agreement of the product. A business is considered registered with Companies House or has a valid VAT ID number.
In theory, I'm not against registering a business, but as others have pointed out, practically it is not worth the time, money and effort to do so - I doubt I'll ever make enough money from this side business to justify the overheads of registering for VAT or as a company, and if I do, that's when I'll register.
I have had a further email from Keysight:QuoteIn January 2021, Keysight changed it’s company policy when addressing the sales, support or services to consumers and/or private individuals. This includes the provision of technical support, repair, calibration services and the sale of replacement parts. Under this new policy, Keysight can only sell to businesses, and provide services under the terms of the warranty or agreement of the product. A business is considered registered with Companies House or has a valid VAT ID number.
So at least we have a date for when the change came in - were there any particularly large consumer law changes in 2020? It seems to be a little late for a reaction to the 2015 UK law.
6 - Regarding what people can do: those that can/want to go the legal way in some specific cases, are entitled and encouraged to. To the rest I say this: we all have our powers also. Privately, be it our hobby or own business, we can choose to not buy KS as long there are other brands that can do the job. Secondly, and the most important since it's the one that surely calls KS attention, in our circles or influence or on our procurement/advisory positions inside each big company many of us work, we can advocate in not choosing KS because of the type of assurances this company provides to minor guys (one day, any one of us can be in the lower side of the scale). All the KS people that should be squeezed against the wall, are the account managers, sales directors and CSOs that come to our doors trying to push the maintenance contracts and all the new product lines! Those are the moments where they must explain their support strategy and/or balance it with a much lower price in order to convince us in buying the product/service.