Agilent LA 16803a - how to best configure (upgrades etc) ?

[Pilatus]

I recently acquired a nice 16803a logic analyzer that came with a clean install of win xp with sp2. I have read the archives, however I am left with questions as to what my next steps should be. Let me ask this as a multi part question.

(I summerized my findings in red below.)

1. Should I update to sp 3? If so, can I update using sp 3 in the "wild" or must it come from Agilent?
YES. I used the sp3 in the wild and all went just fine.

2. Presently a full cold power up boot to the LA software takes 1 min 40 sec. I read in the archives that sp 3 will increase boot time to over 4 minutes? Is this verified?
After installing sp3 and all the add-ons including upgrading the LA 5.9.xxx software, it boots in about 1 min 20s into the logic analyzer application.

3. Motherboard ADLINK M-880 is equipped with 1GB of ram. Is it worth upgrading to more memory, say 4GB (looks like only 3GB might be supported); what performance improvement will this provide?Will it help speed up the boot time?
I installed 4 sticks of 1GB PC2 5300U RAM that I happened to have around. Don't know if it sped up boot time since I made several changes at once, but final boot time did improve as noted above.

4. If upgrading motherboard RAM, what part number to install?
I installed 4 sticks of 1GB PC2 5300U RAM. See the ADLINK manual in Reply #3 below.

5. Presently has Agilent LA software 3.70.0003 installed. What feature improvements will I see going to ver 5.9xxx?
Can operate the LA remotely over the network via the app, in addition to using remote desktop if you still want to. Did not explore other features yet.

6. Worth installing an SSD? (My understanding is that the SSD should be limited to 120GB partition).
YES, if only for the noise! It is likely one of the reasons of the boot speedup, but gone is the grating high frequency pitch noise I was originally attributing to the fans.

7. Anyone have a copy of the ADLINK M-880 motherboard manual?
I contacted ADLINK and they provided me with the M-945 manual. See the ADLINK manual in Reply #3 below. It seems that Agilent commissioned a version of this board (with likely a custom BIOS).

8. Can the .ala file be opened by a 3rd party software for post analysis?[/li][/list]
You can save (File/Save As) as an Excel file for the time portion of interest if you need to. You can also operate the LA analysis remotely using 5.9.xxx on a faster computer.

Thanks in advance.

[gslick]

If you do a clean install from the 16803A system software recovery DVD, it will install an already activated installation of Windows XP SP2.  If you do that, then you can install version 03.67.1008 of the logic analyzer software from CD.

Unless you happened to receive an installation CD with version 3.70.0003 of the logic analyzer software, or if the full set of the installation files are present on your hard drive which you can save to run the installation again later, you can't get back to version 3.70.0003 as that is not available to download from Keysight.

If you are going to stick with a version 3.x of the logic analyzer software, you will probably have slightly quicker boot times sticking with XP SP2 than if you upgrade to XP SP3. If you want to upgrade to version 05.90.1110 of the logic analyzer software, then you need to upgrade to XP SP3. To do that, you can just run the standard XP SP3 upgrade that was available from Microsoft.

You can upgrade the ADLINK M-880 with either (4x) 1GB DIMMs, or (2x) 2GB DIMMs. The resulting usable memory will be somewhere around 3.2GB, if I remember correctly. I'd have to boot one up to check. The last set of DIMMs I bought a while ago were Samsung M378T5663QZ3-CF7 2GB PC2-6400 DDR2-800, for example like this pair: https://www.ebay.com/itm/155513343077  I haven't actually installed those specific parts yet. I could do that in a day or two and dump the SPD output from CPU-Z. You don't need PC2-6400 memory, PC2-5300 DDR2-667, or even PC2-4300 DDR2-533 should be fast enough.

I believe the ADLINK M-880 for Agilent is a custom build of the ADLINK M-945. The standard M-945 might not have the LVDS display connector populated. There might be other minor differences too. The M-880 also has a custom Agilent BIOS.

[Pilatus]

Agilent 16800 series logic analyzer (for the EEVBLOG search engine)

Thanks gslick. I do have the disks for the OS as well as for the LA software. I will repurpose one of my SSD and experiment with that. Agilent 16800 series logic analyzer (for the search engine)

So far I find that XP with sp2 boots in about 1 min 40. Another post on this site claims an increase in time to over 4 min after just installing sp3. I'll stick with sp2 for the time being. Don't know what features I am losing by sticking with 3.70.0003

Interested to in the potential performance increase of adding RAM, though other postings on this site claim no improvement. I believe someone was successful installing Win7 with increased RAM and obtained same performance as XP. I'm not sure how much time I am willing to experiment with that though.  Cost of the RAM is pretty cheap, so I might just slap in a larger pair of memory sticks for good measure.

The M-945 has a 1Gb/s ethernet port while the M-880 only has 100Mb/s, so I'm not sure if the M880 is a derivative of the M-945.

I have obtained an owner's manual for the ADLINK M-945 motherboard and am posting it as an attachment.

[Pilatus]

FAN NOISE

I was getting a shrill noise from the fans at the back, reflected by the wall. Highly irritating, in that I would need to wear my noise cancelling earphones if working for any length of time. My quick and dirty solution was to place absorbing material on the wall, in this case a small terry cloth towel. This seems to absorb the high frequency noise. Works great so far. If I had some egg-crate foam that might work even better.

I might consider the inline resistance to the power wiring going to the fan as suggested in another post as a more permanent solution.

[gslick]

The M-945 has a 1Gb/s ethernet port while the M-880 only has 100Mb/s, so I'm not sure if the M880 is a derivative of the M-945.

The M-880 motherboard should have a PCI\VEN_8086&DEV_108C "Intel(R) PRO/1000 PM Network Connection" device on it. Without opening one up to take a look at the Ethernet controller chip on the motherboard near the RJ45 and PCIe connectors, I'm not sure if that is the 82573E controller mentioned in the M-945 datasheet. Regardless of the exact controller device, the M-880 motherboard should have a 1Gb capable Ethernet controller.


Another minor difference between the M-880 and the M-945 is that while the N-880 motherboard has the IDE and floppy connector footprints, they are not populated.

[gslick]

I took the cover off of a 16902B which has an M-880 motherboard and verified that the separate Ethernet controller chip on the motherboard is indeed a PC82573E Gigabit Ethernet Controller.

That motherboard currently has four 512MB PC2-4300 DDR2-533 DIMMs installed for a total of 2GB of system memory. Those DIMMs might be the original factory choice. I have seen the same Unigen DIMM parts installed on other M-880 motherboards, for example in the photo of an M-880 below taken from an eBay listing.

This is the memory information from CPU-Z with four of those Unigen 512MB PC2-4300 DDR2-533 DIMMs installed on the M-880 motherboard.

Code: [Select]

Processors Information
-------------------------------------------------------------------------

Socket 1 ID = 0
Number of cores 1 (max 1)
Number of threads 1 (max 1)
Manufacturer GenuineIntel
Name Intel Celeron 352
Codename Cedar Mill
Specification Intel(R) Celeron(R) D CPU 3.20GHz
Package (platform ID) Socket 775 LGA (0x2)
CPUID F.6.5
Extended CPUID F.6
Core Stepping D0
Technology 65 nm
Core Speed 3199.3 MHz
Multiplier x Bus Speed 24.0 x 133.3 MHz
Base frequency (cores) 133.3 MHz
Base frequency (ext.) 133.3 MHz
Rated Bus speed 533.2 MHz
Stock frequency 3200 MHz
Instructions sets MMX, SSE, SSE2, SSE3, EM64T
Microcode Revision 0x7
L1 Data cache 16 KB (8-way, 64-byte line)
Trace cache 12 Kuops (8-way)
L2 cache 512 KB (8-way, 64-byte line)
Max CPUID level 00000006h
Max CPUID ext. level 80000008h
FID/VID Control no


Clock Speed 0 3199.25 MHz (Core #0)
Core 0 max ratio (effective) 24.00

Chipset
-------------------------------------------------------------------------

Northbridge Intel i945P/PL/G/GZ rev. A2
Southbridge Intel 82801GB (ICH7/R) rev. A1
Bus Specification PCI-Express 1.0 (2.5 GT/s)
Memory Type DDR2
Memory Size 2 GBytes
Channels Dual
Memory Frequency 200.0 MHz (2:3)
CAS# latency (CL) 4.0
RAS# to CAS# delay (tRCD) 4
RAS# Precharge (tRP) 4
Cycle Time (tRAS) 12
Bank Cycle Time (tRC) 16
Host Bridge 0x2770

Memory SPD
-------------------------------------------------------------------------

DIMM # 1
SMBus address 0x50
Memory type DDR2
Module format Regular UDIMM
Module Manufacturer(ID) (0000000000000000000000000000)
Size 512 MBytes
Max bandwidth PC2-4300 (266 MHz)
Part number
Number of banks 4
Data width 64 bits
Correction None
Nominal Voltage 1.80 Volts
EPP no
XMP no
AMP no
JEDEC timings table CL-tRCD-tRP-tRAS-tRC @ frequency
JEDEC #1 3.0-3-3-9-12 @ 200 MHz
JEDEC #2 4.0-4-4-12-16 @ 266 MHz
JEDEC #3 5.0-4-4-12-16 @ 266 MHz

DIMM # 2
SMBus address 0x51
Memory type DDR2
Module format Regular UDIMM
Module Manufacturer(ID) (0000000000000000000000000000)
Size 512 MBytes
Max bandwidth PC2-4300 (266 MHz)
Part number
Number of banks 4
Data width 64 bits
Correction None
Nominal Voltage 1.80 Volts
EPP no
XMP no
AMP no
JEDEC timings table CL-tRCD-tRP-tRAS-tRC @ frequency
JEDEC #1 3.0-3-3-9-12 @ 200 MHz
JEDEC #2 4.0-4-4-12-16 @ 266 MHz
JEDEC #3 5.0-4-4-12-16 @ 266 MHz

DIMM # 3
SMBus address 0x52
Memory type DDR2
Module format Regular UDIMM
Module Manufacturer(ID) (0000000000000000000000000000)
Size 512 MBytes
Max bandwidth PC2-4300 (266 MHz)
Part number
Number of banks 4
Data width 64 bits
Correction None
Nominal Voltage 1.80 Volts
EPP no
XMP no
AMP no
JEDEC timings table CL-tRCD-tRP-tRAS-tRC @ frequency
JEDEC #1 3.0-3-3-9-12 @ 200 MHz
JEDEC #2 4.0-4-4-12-16 @ 266 MHz
JEDEC #3 5.0-4-4-12-16 @ 266 MHz

DIMM # 4
SMBus address 0x53
Memory type DDR2
Module format Regular UDIMM
Module Manufacturer(ID) (0000000000000000000000000000)
Size 512 MBytes
Max bandwidth PC2-4300 (266 MHz)
Part number
Number of banks 4
Data width 64 bits
Correction None
Nominal Voltage 1.80 Volts
EPP no
XMP no
AMP no
JEDEC timings table CL-tRCD-tRP-tRAS-tRC @ frequency
JEDEC #1 3.0-3-3-9-12 @ 200 MHz
JEDEC #2 4.0-4-4-12-16 @ 266 MHz
JEDEC #3 5.0-4-4-12-16 @ 266 MHz


[Pilatus]

Thanks for looking into this gslick.

[gslick]

I just took a look at another 16902B which has an M-880 motherboard. This mainframe currently has a single 16911A module installed, so it should be a fairly close comparison with a 16803A with an M-880 motherboard.

This motherboard has two Kingston KVR800D2N5/2G 2GB 256M x 64-Bit DDR2-800 CL5 240-Pin DIMM modules installed, for a total of 4GB of system memory. Of that 4GB of system memory, only 3.24GB is usable, with the rest of the system address space reserved for other purposes.

Those Kingston DIMM modules are probably not what was originally installed in the factory. Also installed is an Intel SSD 520 Series 240GB SATA SSD, which also was probably not what was originally installed in the factory. This 16902B still has Intel asset tag stickers on it, so it wouldn't be surprising if someone at Intel installed the Intel SSD.

With Windows XP SP3 and version 05.90.1104 of the logic analyzer software installed, my stopwatch says around 1:20 from pressing the power button to when the system reaches the desktop, and the logic analyzer service icon in the system tray changes from yellow to green, and the logic analyzer application has finished starting. I ran "control userpasswords2" from a command prompt to uncheck the "Users must enter a user name and password to use this computer" checkbox so that there is no delay during boot for the user name and password dialog box.

CPU-Z memory details:

Code: [Select]

Processors Information
-------------------------------------------------------------------------

Socket 1 ID = 0
Number of cores 1 (max 1)
Number of threads 1 (max 1)
Manufacturer GenuineIntel
Name Intel Celeron 352
Codename Cedar Mill
Specification Intel(R) Celeron(R) D CPU 3.20GHz
Package (platform ID) Socket 775 LGA (0x2)
CPUID F.6.5
Extended CPUID F.6
Core Stepping D0
Technology 65 nm
Core Speed 3199.3 MHz
Multiplier x Bus Speed 24.0 x 133.3 MHz
Base frequency (cores) 133.3 MHz
Base frequency (ext.) 133.3 MHz
Rated Bus speed 533.2 MHz
Stock frequency 3200 MHz
Instructions sets MMX, SSE, SSE2, SSE3, EM64T
Microcode Revision 0x7
L1 Data cache 16 KB (8-way, 64-byte line)
Trace cache 12 Kuops (8-way)
L2 cache 512 KB (8-way, 64-byte line)
Max CPUID level 00000006h
Max CPUID ext. level 80000008h
FID/VID Control no


Clock Speed 0 3199.25 MHz (Core #0)
Core 0 max ratio (effective) 24.00

Chipset
-------------------------------------------------------------------------

Northbridge Intel i945P/PL/G/GZ rev. A2
Southbridge Intel 82801GB (ICH7/R) rev. A1
Bus Specification PCI-Express 1.0 (2.5 GT/s)
Memory Type DDR2
Memory Size 4 GBytes
Channels Dual
Memory Frequency 200.0 MHz (2:3)
CAS# latency (CL) 4.0
RAS# to CAS# delay (tRCD) 4
RAS# Precharge (tRP) 4
Cycle Time (tRAS) 12
Bank Cycle Time (tRC) 16
Host Bridge 0x2770


Memory SPD
-------------------------------------------------------------------------

DIMM # 1
SMBus address 0x50
Memory type DDR2
Module format Regular UDIMM
Module Manufacturer(ID) Kingston (7F98000000000000000000000000)
Size 2048 MBytes
Max bandwidth PC2-6400 (400 MHz)
Part number 2G-UDIMM
Serial number 66CC4003
Manufacturing date Week 04/Year 09
Number of banks 8
Data width 64 bits
Correction None
Nominal Voltage 1.80 Volts
EPP no
XMP no
AMP no
JEDEC timings table CL-tRCD-tRP-tRAS-tRC @ frequency
JEDEC #1 3.0-3-3-9-12 @ 200 MHz
JEDEC #2 4.0-4-4-12-16 @ 266 MHz
JEDEC #3 5.0-5-5-18-23 @ 400 MHz

DIMM # 2
SMBus address 0x52
Memory type DDR2
Module format Regular UDIMM
Module Manufacturer(ID) Kingston (7F98000000000000000000000000)
Size 2048 MBytes
Max bandwidth PC2-6400 (400 MHz)
Part number        "         
Serial number 8E2299E6
Manufacturing date Week 35/Year 09
Number of banks 8
Data width 64 bits
Correction None
Nominal Voltage 1.80 Volts
EPP no
XMP no
AMP no
JEDEC timings table CL-tRCD-tRP-tRAS-tRC @ frequency
JEDEC #1 3.0-3-3-9-12 @ 200 MHz
JEDEC #2 4.0-4-4-12-16 @ 266 MHz
JEDEC #3 5.0-5-5-18-23 @ 400 MHz


[Pilatus]

I replaced the 2 x 512MB Unigen memory that came with the unit with 4 x 1GB, and now see the system recognize 3.3GB of RAM. Luckily I had these 1GB DD2 RAMs collecting dust in my junk pile and finally got some use out of them ... sometimes it pays to be a packrat.

I also imaged the HDD and cloned it to a Kingston 120GB SSD. The obnoxious high frequency (shril) noise  (platter spinning) I was hearing is gone now. Getting to the HDD drive was a bit of a pain, having to remove the front display assembly. I did not remove the hdd drive, but rather connected my SATA/USB device directly to it. In the end I just installed the SSD next to the HDD with 2 sided tape.

From power button push to logic analyzer software loaded is about 1 min 20 sec. Quite pleased with that.

I updated the XP OS to SP3, applied the security patch (along with , then brought the LA software up to 5.9.xxx.  I had tried to install the LA software via a USB stick but it got hung up in the end looking for a file of some sort. I uninstalled it, transferred the executable to the SSD and installed it from there successfully. It still all boots up in 1 min 20s.

Looks like the document I have (I referred to it as a user manual) for the ADLINK M-945 board I posted earlier is valid for the M-880, or at least good enough as a reference.

Everything shows I have a 1Gb/s ethernet link, however data transfer performance is under 100Mb/s. Documentation from Agilent shows that this model has 100Mb/s transfer rate capability. Don’t know what is going on with that.

Regarding the file types generated, you can only save as xml or .ala, however I noticed you can export the data (File, Export) as a CSV file. Works great. Also the remote access to the LA is quite slick and performs well.

.... I’m a happy camper.

By the way, my Thanks go to GSLICK for the help.

[Pilatus]

I had a low usage Kingston SSD lying around... see image below for details.

[Pilatus]

In my search for files and documentation, I came across a source for (xp) Recovery Software (16800-14103).  This can be found in the Keysight forum, and the file was posted on dropbox by a former Agilent/Keysight engineer.

This discussion is 3 years old but the DropBox is still active. https://community.keysight.com/s/question/0D52L00005IdpB0SAJ/looking-for-a-16822a-software-recovery-image-for-my-logic-analyzer-where-do-i-find-this

If you think you will ever need this, get yourself a copy and archive it.

[ahakman]

I just went through a whole "project within a project (within an even bigger project)" of repairing a bunch of 16752A cards, tracking down cables and flying leads, and getting them working in my 16903A mainframe.

My 16903A had the Motorolla VP22 motherboard in it, and I thought I would just "put up with" the slowness of the unit, but after actually using it for a solid weekend, I got very frustrated with how slow it was.

I have since upgraded the motherboard to an Asus P5G43T-M motherboard with a core2duo E8500@3.16GHZ, 4GB ram, 500GB sata ssd running win7 64 bit sp1, and logic analyzer software 5.60. My power button to ready to go time is 50 seconds, and quite a lot of that is the bios before the OS boots, and the LA software initializing the 3 16752A cards. I think you could go to even newer motherboards, but you obviously need at least 1 old-school PCI slot (and for anything other than the 16903A, it has to be in the right location too)

But more importantly, the whole system is FAST - you can zoom and scroll traces without any lag, and it makes it MUCH MUCH more usable. It honestly feels like a modern and very useful piece of equipment that's enjoyable to use now. With the old motherboard, it was basically a chore to use, but if it's the only tool you have, it certainly gets the job done, it just took forever.

I also installed the logic analysis software into a windows 7 VM on my linux box, and I can do all of my offline analysis there without the actual logic analyzer running (and not having to listen to the fans drone away). It's very convenient to have the logic analyzer on one monitor, and ghidra (or whatever software you're working with) on the other monitor on the same machine, and no fan noise to boot!

What I gained:

• Much faster and responsive trace updates
• DVI / HDMI / VGA output on the motherboard (easier to connect to modern displays) - running it with a 1920x1080 24" LCD
• Can actually run a widescreen monitor at 1920x1080 (I couldn't for the life of me get the windows XP on the analyzer originally to give my any 16:9 resolution options with the onboard graphics on the motorola board)
• gig ethernet
• usb 2
• 64 bit os that can actually use 4GB of ram

What I lost:

• The internal monitor (well, it works, but it's one or the other, the internal monitor or the external, but not both or switchable with the buttons like it used to be) - the internal screen is pretty horrid, small, and low resolution (and only 256 color because of the awful graphics chip that drives it) anyway - no big loss to me
• The touchscreen (I just didn't install the driver, it is available, and I connected the serial cable from the PCI board to the motherboard) - don't use the internal screen so don't care
• The "Agilent screensaver" (ok, but does anyone actually care about this?)

Agilent is being stupid and won't give out any software other than the 2 versions they have posted on their website now. I was able to track down most of the versions from V4.40 to V5.90 (I have V4.40, 5.40, 5.60, 5.70, 5.80, 5.90).

The older version they have posted (3.67) is the last version that supports compiling the old Inverse Assemblers with visual studio into a .dll wrapper for use with the windows analysis software (as opposed to the older HP-UX software in the older 167x and 165x analyzers). The instructions to do so are in another thread (and I successfully did that for some IA's that I was interested in - I can verify they work)

I believe V4.00 is the first version that supports windows 7 (32 bit)
V4.40 and above all support windows 7 (64 bit)
V5.70 and newer are persnickety about some registry keys or else they complain that they're not being installed on a "valid frame" and refuse to work
V5.70 and newer are also a lot slower (reportedly by other people in threads here) and have more restrictive / more annoying licensing, and require more .Net dependencies, with no real benefit unless you have specific analysis hardware.

Yes, you can export .csv files, but if you're trying to look at differences of rather large traces (~300 - 400MB), I actually find their software works the best (using the "Compare" window). The only tricky part is to do that "offline" (either on the logic analyzer itself or on a separate computer / vm running the logic analysis software) with previously captured traces, you need to enable the "Data Import" license in the software. Otherwise you can only compare a previous capture to a live capture right now. All of the secret sauce to do that is scattered here in other threads.

With the original slow CPU and low RAM, it was an OK tool
With the upgraded CPU, more ram, and being able to run the same version of the software offline on another machine or VM, it's a much much more useful tool!

[RAQU_PL]

If You want to,
upgrading celeron to Pentium D 945 2 core is a good idea.

For Adlink M880 nitro.

[Myriad79]

@ahakman This is some very valuable info. I've been trying to upgrade a 16802A from WinXP to Win7 myself (after successfully having installed some Pentium D Dual Core, 4GB of RAM and a SSD drive).
The Windows 7 installation as such ran through without issues but I'm having trouble installing the LA software onto it. So far I was justable to retreive either the old 3.67 and last 5.90 from the Keysight website.
The 5.90 installation will fail at some point when "verifying hard drive image" - do you know what is missing here? I already tried changing my Windows manufacturer name to match the values on the previous XP installation but so far without luck.



Would you mind sharing where/how you've been able to find other versions of the software such as 4.00, 4.40, 5.40 and 5.60?

Thanks in advance!

[Myriad79]

Reply to myself - thanks to the support of RAQU_PL, my 16802A is now running under Windows 7 using SW 5.90 as well.