NanoVNA Custom Software

[purpose]

Let me re-read the manual and have a go at a segmented sweep, as I've never tried it.
BIAB.

[Knuddel]

Which nano do you have?
-H
-H4
without any H ?

It is not related to the segmented sweep, there is no graph displayed at all. It only updates inside the Nanos display.

The data is continuously refreshed in the Setup/Diagnosis->DumpTerminal window
but
it is not updated in the NanoVNA Raw Data window.

[purpose]

It is not related to the segmented sweep, there is no graph displayed at all.

Ah... sorry. I misunderstood.
Hmmm... Does this happen with the older version 1.08?

[Knuddel]

Hi,

thanks for trying! Good to knew that this works with 1.0.64 .

Yes, it does the same strange things with the V1.08

But seems that the Raw data is somehow out of range as shown in the attached picture.
Is it related to this INI-File stuff?

[purpose]

Is it related to this INI-File stuff?

I wouldn't have a clue. I just like looking at the pretty squiggles.

[purpose]

One last question... Did you download and install https://github.com/joeqsmith/NanoVNA_Software/releases/tag/0.10 before you opened up 2.02?

[Knuddel]

No.
I had already some LabVIEW Runtime versions installed. And VISA was installed, too.
So I only had install the 2011 Runtime and then the V1p04 sofware for the V2plus4 worked.
You are right:
I may need to try the Software V2p01 with the V2plus4, now, to check if this still works.

[purpose]

I may need to try the Software V2.02 with the V2plus4, now, to check if this still works.

I believe the plus requires a different version of software, but no harm trying.

[joeqsmith]

So this is crazy:
...
I attached it to Joes software 2.0 and 2.02 and there are no errors and the green light is on and it calibrates and it sets the start and stop frequencies correctly even in segmented sweep but it never displays any curve in any of all the main windows graphs nor in the advanced bode graph.
...
(with this version curiously the standalone device as well as with Joes Software only supports down to 50kHz.)

Seems rather obvious.  You are not from this country and changed your PCs regional settings to use the comma.   I suspect no problem other than failing to read the manual.   It's a common problem.   If it's not this and you feel there is a problem with my software, you need to provide more detail.   

[Knuddel]

I am on your side!
 I suspect my error in this area.
But what I have tested already:
I placed the nanovna.ini into the same directory like your *.exe
First I gave it the full content:

[NanoVNA]
server.app.propertiesEnabled=True
server.ole.enabled=True
server.tcp.paranoid=True
server.tcp.serviceName="My Computer/VI Server"
server.vi.callsEnabled=True
server.vi.propertiesEnabled=True
WebServer.TcpAccess="c+*"
WebServer.ViAccess="+*"
DebugServerEnabled=False
DebugServerWaitOnLaunch=False
useLocaleDecimalPt=False

Later I deleted all except the last line.

That both did not help....
There may be sometimes more lines different from "NaN +NaN!" sometimes less.
If I switch to "Xman rectangular" and both channels are read there is only "NaN +NaN!" left.

Next I will try to switch the regional setting in windows10 .

Besides this: Why did everything worked some days ago with the V2plus4 combined with the dedicated software V1p04 without nanovna.ini ?

Although sometimes it may sound like I/someone is blaming your software, I never would!!! This is provided free of charge and created with your private time as a hobby, which deserves my full respect and I just hope to get some guidance to fix the problem...

[Knuddel]

With the V2plus4 still everything is fine with both the V1p04 and V2p01
Thanks again for this extraordinary software!
When I observe the raw data in the V2plus4 software both versions there is always a comma separator displayed in the raw data window independent from the existance of the nanovna.ini.

[Knuddel]

With the "original" Nano I switched the regional settings to decimal point and now the Raw Data Display displays this.
With the old calibration done with comma again no graph was displayed and there are mostly "NaN +NaN!" (picture attached)
Then with a new calibration with the decimal point selected in the windows regional settings everything is fine. Yeah!!!

So finally there is these questions left:
Why is the V2plus4 working in any case even without the nanovna.ini and with a comma selected in the regional settings ?
Why is the original Nano not working with the nanovna.ini in my case and needs to have the regional settings switched to deciamal point?
In which directory is the software searching for the INI-file?


Just as a footnote: Normally in Germany they use the decimal point to separate but I had to switch it for some Rigol or Keysight measurement software some month ago.

[joeqsmith]

When I observe the raw data in the V2plus4 software both versions there is always a comma separator displayed in the raw data window independent from the existance of the nanovna.ini.

From the manual,  LabView changes how the comma is handled when talking to external peripherals depending how the INI is set.   The INI does not effect how the data is presented on the display.   

I would have no way of knowing what you are doing. Every detail is important.  For all I know you may feel that the 1.x and 2.x software shares the same calibration file format and are trying to use a 1.x cal with the 2.x software.  I would have to guess as my crystal ball is out for service.  Every detail matters.  You may feel that firmware for the same hardware should use the same calibration. 
   
For the original NanoVNA
If you read the posts in this forum, you know that DisLord was attempting to add a feature to the firmware to handle the comma.  Does other firmware handle the comma differently?   I have no desire to look into it.  There is a reason I had settled on a version of firmware I use.  Of course, if you took the time to read the posts here, you saw the whole first and second discussion about the regional settings.   You are experimenting with the latest firmware available for your original NanoVNA, which I have said had problems and also why I abandoned them.   

Why is the V2plus4 working in any case even without the nanovna.ini and with a comma selected in the regional settings ?

Let's assume you took the time to read the documentation they published for it.  So you know that the V2Plus is using a completely different protocol and where the original NanoVNA uses ASCII, the V2Plus uses?  Are the decimal and comma ASCII characters?   This should have been obvious.


To sum it all up,

Read more, post less. 

Create new calibration files for the software/firmware/hardware/cables/standards you are using at the time.   

If you are trying to solve problems like this, don't make your problem even more complex by adding more variables like calibration.  Learn to simplify your  problems.   If possible, learn to split the problem.  In your example with the original NanoVNA, while you left out the fact you had changed your regional settings, it was pretty obvious you had.  You could have used the default regional settings and standard INI (or no INI) and see if the problem went away. This is what I mean by cutting a problem in half.   

If you can't solve your problem, detail every step so someone else can reproduce your findings.   

If you like playing with the firmware of the week, expect to run into problems. 

If you use one of the regional settings that supports the comma, add the useLocaleDecimalPt=False to the INI file.   If you use the decimal, then leave this line out.   

[joeqsmith]

The following was posted on:
https://groups.io/g/NanoVNAV2/topic/vna_shootout/83798959?p=Created,,,20,1,20,0::recentpostdate%2Fsticky,,,20,2,0,83798959

This is in reference to the previous testing I had performed with DisLords firmware.   

On Tue, Jun 29, 2021 at 01:50 PM, Joe Smith wrote:

    The firmware I use with the original NanoVNA supports 10kHz but once we get below 20kHz, the noise gets pretty bad.

Hello Joe,
I have measured with the basic nanoVNA and DiSlord firmware 1.0.50, 100 Hz bandwidth,
down to 1 kHz with low noise, see the screenshot below.
More details can be found at:
https://www.rudiswiki.de/wiki9/nanoVNA-Applications#WSPR_Audio_Filter

Hello Rudi,
If you feel that 1.0.50 is the hot ticket, post a link to the image and I will gladly give it a run.

Hello Joe,
There are newer versions from DiSlord (1.0.64) but I will append the version 1.0.50
for the nanoVNA, which I used for the audio filter measurement.
73, Rudi DL5FA

Attached is the firmware and graph Rudi supplied.   

****
Consider this post sticky.  I'll add to it.
****
Converted Rudi's DFU image to HEX and attached.  I installed it on the original NanoVNA and ran the regression test.   This will take a few hours to run.  The 10kHz test fails as we would expect as this version will run lower than that. 
****
Rudi's graph swept a filter from 1k to 20kHz.  While it would be difficult to tell much with this example starting at -20, we can see it dips to about -70 at 10KHz. 
 
To evaluate the difference in the firmware, I plan to run two sweep ranges.  10k-50kHz and 10k-1MHz.  This will be done using the same VNA, cables, cal standards and loads.   My interested in the lower frequencies is for making PDN measurements and not audio filters.  The demands for the Nano are much worse.   I will use the resistive standards we came up with and we will be using the shunt thru method using one of the home made common mode transformers.
****
Should mention that the regression tests failed at the standard deviation exceeded the cutoff but I plan to proceed with the testing anyway. 

[joeqsmith]

Sweeping 10kHz to 1MHz with the 1mOhm standard inserted.  Shown with firmware I use from 2019 compared with the image Rudi supplied and my old HP3589A.

I am not sure what is more interesting.  How much of a problem the 1.0.50 firmware has, or how well the $50 VNA tracks my vintage HP.

[joeqsmith]

From my previous tests, we know the limit of the NanoVNA is about 1mOhm depending on the time of day and wind direction.  Here I have gone ahead and inserted the 100uOhm standard, again with a 10kHz to 1MHz sweep range.    It appears we gave up about 10dB with the 1.0.50 firmware. 

[joeqsmith]

Sadly, AppCAD can't handle the uneven frequency steps when I use my poor mans quasi log sweep.   If we are wanting to look at the regulators stability, most of the excitement is going to be at the lower frequencies.   To get a better idea how the firmware effects the noise, I have changed the sweep range to 10kHz to 50kHz to give us a little better resolution. 

Showing the 1mOhm standard.    Notice how the firmware from 2019 has a higher noise level as we start to go below 20kHz.  This is what I had mentioned in the video.   You can run it lower but be aware of the error.  But check out once we get beyond 20KHz.  It tracks very close to the vintage HP.   The 1.0.50... well you can see for yourself.

[joeqsmith]

Of course, we have to run the 100uOhm in this same range.    And what do you know, it does what we expect. 

Those of you following this thread may be looking at the HP's -100dB and ask, how did I measure that 100uOhm resistor.   Well, as you can see, that old HP is just not up to the task and my Agilent VNA while it has higher performance, sadly it will not run down this low.  The only way I have to measure it is with the Signal Hound.  That's one of the few newer bits of equipment I own and I really like it.   

[joeqsmith]

Of course, I can use my software to run a quasi log sweep and then use it to overlay the data.   

I have reloaded my NanoVNA with the old image and plan to stay with it.   Again, I had mentioned the regression test and how the new firmware fails the standard deviation.  The noise isn't only bad at these lower frequencies.   Of course, if you need to actually measure down here like I have been attempting to do, I think you will need to spend more than $50.    I had asked OWO if they would consider supporting lower frequencies than 100kHz.   They are talking 120dB dynamic range and so far, they are not discludeing the lower bands.  Full two ports, and they claim it's fast, real fast.   They already have posted that they have considered the narrow band measurements this time around.   I'm starting to salivate...   

[Knuddel]

Please, can you attach your old golden firmware image?
I'm still confused which one it is even if I read the whole thread again!

[joeqsmith]

Please, can you attach your old golden firmware image?
I'm still confused which one it is even if I read the whole thread again!

Odd as I had specifically written you the other day about this in an attempt to help you get started. 

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/rf-microwave/nanovna-custom-software/msg3594970/#msg3594970

In case you still can't find it, please see the attached.   I suspect you are going to have a lot of problems trying to make use the software.  Again, it's certainly not for the beginner.   It's an engineering tool at best and will require you to spend time reading and doing your own research. 

I think back when I created that first video and how many people were whining about me not releasing it.  It was very common for people to suggest they would not need support.      Back then the software wasn't as stable and there was no manual.  Now it's a few years old and runs well enough that I use it, and for those wanting to try it, there's a few hundred page manual to tell them how. 

[Knuddel]

  Found!

Just a question regarding the CMT:

Is it worth it to try this toride from digi-key:

2258-T60006L2050W565-ND‎ 
399-19161-ND
399-ESD-R-57S-ND

[joeqsmith]

Is it worth it to try this toride from digi-key:

2258-T60006L2050W565-ND‎ 
399-19161-ND
399-ESD-R-57S-ND

If your goal is to meet or improve on the Picotest transformer, then I would just suggest buying one.   If you don't need the wide bandwidth,  Omicron offers one that costs much less.   

If your goal is to learn about material selection and winding techniques, I think anything is fine.   You should be able to use the VNA to compare the data sheets with the data you collect.  I could see this exorcise being helpful.   From your posts, it seems you are just starting out.  I suggest not spending anything.   Again, I would just go to the local scrap yards and see what you can turn up.  You don't need to know what the cores are to learn something.   

[joeqsmith]

There was some discussion on material selection not too long ago.  Based on your part numbers, I suggest you take the time to read what was posted.  It may save you some time and money.
 
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/rf-microwave/impedance-measurement-with-vna-using-series-shuntseries-through-methods/msg3564573/#msg3564573

[joeqsmith]

While running that last little experiment for Rudi,  I needed to add support to save the larger segmented datasets to Toushstone format to allow me to compare it with the old HP.   Of course it doesn't address the fact that AppCAD can't handle the quasi log data.  I may add my own data viewer later on as AppCAD had problems with different data set sizes as well.   The software has an import for single port Touchstone files but it is very limited. 

Anyway both programs have been updated and are now available.