Author Topic: nano vna  (Read 20631 times)

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Offline m3vuvTopic starter

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nano vna
« on: November 14, 2019, 01:19:12 am »
Hi all,ive been looking at getting a nano vna from ebay,ive a few questions,is there models to avoid?,are they any good for antenna measurments,and how do they compair to say an mfj analyser?,i currently use a fox tango aa-14  aa,its handy with bluetooth and the android app,will a nano vna give me a lot more info about antennas?,thanks in advance,lastly would you recomend buying one?,i was looking at this:https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/NanoVNA-H-HF-VHF-UHF-Vector-Network-Analyzer-Antenna-Analyzer-50K-1-5GHz-Case/254413699311?hash=item3b3c3cf8ef:g:wf4AAOSwJYVdw7g~
 

Offline radiolistener

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Re: nano vna
« Reply #1 on: November 14, 2019, 04:22:42 am »
they are better than mfj analyzer. works ok. But screen size is small.
 

Offline bob91343

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Re: nano vna
« Reply #2 on: November 14, 2019, 05:31:23 am »
The nanoVNA is a terrific bargain.  It does nearly everything a ham would need.  Measures antennas, impedance, SWR, and so on.  You can determine coax characteristic impedance.  Measure capacitors, inductors, resistors.  Spectrum analysis.  Line length and loss.  Bandwidth.  Plots Smith charts.  It's a sweep and cw signal generator, very accurate frequency.

If you don't like the screen size, use the PC software and you can see everything on the computer screen.

As you may have figured out by now, I like mine.  While of course it has limitations, they aren't very significant for most ham radio purposes.  If you build antennas, this is a must have.
 

Offline GeorgeOfTheJungle

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Re: nano vna
« Reply #3 on: November 14, 2019, 05:51:33 am »
Andreas Spiess has a vidjeo comparing that with another one.
The further a society drifts from truth, the more it will hate those who speak it.
 

Offline OwO

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Re: nano vna
« Reply #4 on: November 14, 2019, 06:02:50 am »
Take what I say with a grain of salt because I'm on the NanoVNA V2 design team, but the original NanoVNA (everything you can find on ebay/aliexpress right now) has severe accuracy problems above 300MHz: https://groups.io/g/nanovna-users/message/6484

What happens is that in harmonic mode the DUT's response to the fundamental frequency bleeds in, and what you are measuring isn't the impedance at the frequency shown, with S11 errors of 3dB in the above plots. It will show perfect calibration but show you wrong impedances once you measure something other than the cal kit.
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Offline vinlove

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Re: nano vna
« Reply #5 on: November 14, 2019, 12:21:36 pm »
If your usage is up to 300 Mhz, then it is still fine machine to have?
But the impedance reading problem sounds critical, does it affect the whole freq. whole spectrum? or is it problem of above 300 Mhz thing?

Have they resolved the problem now? The new ones on sale now is OK? Or are they selling the original version with the problem?
 

Offline bd139

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Re: nano vna
« Reply #6 on: November 14, 2019, 12:32:12 pm »
Definitely buy one. Awesome bit of kit. I bought one from this ebay seller. Was a good clone i.e. has battery and shielding and all cables included:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/323899986991

Is drop shipped to UK. Takes ~5 working days to turn up.

I've used one for measuring filters:



And setting up my 40m dipole:



Good to 300MHz. I won't try it higher as the harmonics thing is a shit hack.

As it comes (I printed a case for it):



Screen is tiny but you can connect it to your PC with a USB cable and use NanoVNA-saver to do all the stuff you need.

I'm awaiting a big fat power attentuator at the moment and will use it for PA gain measurement as well etc. I've used it to design input matching networks for the PA already.

Edit: just in case I haven't been clear enough it's awesome. I've had MFJ and RigExpert impedance analysers and this is so much better, will quite happily work up to 2m band easy and is 1/10th of the cost.
« Last Edit: November 14, 2019, 12:37:41 pm by bd139 »
 
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Offline radiolistener

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Re: nano vna
« Reply #7 on: November 14, 2019, 01:25:41 pm »
But the impedance reading problem sounds critical 300 MHz
Have they resolved the problem now?

there is no impedance problem at 300 MHz
 

Offline Grandchuck

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Re: nano vna
« Reply #8 on: November 14, 2019, 06:13:28 pm »
Below 300 MHz, the accuracy is very good.  There is an example below.
 

Offline profdc9

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Re: nano vna
« Reply #9 on: November 15, 2019, 01:02:52 am »
You might want to check out the VNA I'm working on.  It tries to combine the best of the EU1KY and NanoVNA, achieving the performance of the EU1KY at above 300 MHz which the two ports and lower cost of the NanoVNA.  It is at

http://www.github.com/profdc9/VNA

It uses the EU1KY bridge which I think is somewhat better suited to higher frequencies and impedances.
 

Offline OwO

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Re: nano vna
« Reply #10 on: November 15, 2019, 04:31:11 am »
I don't think that's due to the bridge topology though; the nanoVNA bridge is hampered by not having a balun and relying on the common mode rejection of the sa612 mixers, which isn't good at high frequencies. Simply adding a stage of balun will give you 30dB directivity to 300MHz and two stages of baluns plus nulling can get you 20dB directivity to >2GHz. Doesn't matter how you rearrange it a bridge circuit requires one of the ports to be floating or differential. On the NanoVNA it's the coupled port, and on your design it's on the output port.

I experimented with various bridge topologies a while ago and found it was impossible to get good port 1 matching up to 3GHz with any off the shelf balun if the balun is on the output port. I will be testing a new topology with a differential *input* port instead that will allow a balun-less bridge if you have a differential RF source (like the adf4350).
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Offline vinlove

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Re: nano vna
« Reply #11 on: November 15, 2019, 10:12:43 am »
It looks great.  I placed an order for one. It should be here on early next week.

 

Offline edigi

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Re: nano vna
« Reply #12 on: November 16, 2019, 10:50:30 am »
Spectrum analysis.

That's not. It has roughly 101 10kHz wide windows that works perfect if you set around 1MHz span. In case of lower span those windows overlap and you don't get any better resolution and with higher span there will be gaps, the whole things becomes like a comb filter (using more point from PC may help but can become very slow). That means that you can easily miss a signal although its there. So maybe its OK for very rudimentary spectral analyses if you know its limitations but its better not to think about it as something that can be used for spectrum analyzes.

Generally it can have issues (my, just like most, has) above 25-260 MHz if the temperature is too high or if its too low (a recently developed feature of mine that after cold start around 1 min there are zig-zags) of if battery becomes low.
The push-able rotating button becomes sticky quite quickly and needs rotation from the edge.
The LCD is also rather small.
All in all its a good thing and it definitely worth its price but one has to learn accepting its limitations.

There is also a bigger display version NanoVNA-F that is also probably better worked out, however bigger, heavier and pricier as well. As the operational principle is the same, most limitations apply there as well.

What happens is that in harmonic mode the DUT's response to the fundamental frequency bleeds in, and what you are measuring isn't the impedance at the frequency shown, with S11 errors of 3dB in the above plots. It will show perfect calibration but show you wrong impedances once you measure something other than the cal kit.

While this direction is more pronounced due to the stronger fundamental, the opposite can also cause surprises. Thus the clock signal is a good idea to keep it simple but I look forward to the next version that you are in and hope clean spectral signal will be used there.
 


Offline vinlove

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Re: nano vna
« Reply #14 on: November 18, 2019, 05:06:08 pm »
deleted double message
 

Offline vinlove

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Re: nano vna
« Reply #15 on: November 18, 2019, 05:06:47 pm »

nanoVna arrived, but there is no patch cables included. Just 3x SMA end male terminators and USB cable.
Not a good deal this was. Having to get the patch cables or adaptors separately means extra cost and added delays.
 

Offline vinlove

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Re: nano vna
« Reply #16 on: November 19, 2019, 11:19:49 am »
Had to order 2x sma patch cables for the nanoVNA.
Should have checked the nanoVNA pack included the sma patch cables.

But it looks promising, and I will be watching some youtube vids for the tutorials.
 

Offline vinlove

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Re: nano vna
« Reply #17 on: November 21, 2019, 10:00:59 pm »
Get one with SMA cables, so you don't have to buy them separately unless you already have the cables.

I just got mine, and the sma cables arrived as well.  I did a quick run of checking my 2m and 70cm mobile antenna, and the SWR was 1:1.4 on 2m, and 1:1.1 on 70cm.

My Baofeng UV5R rubber duck antenna was 1:1.6 on 144 Mhz, but 1:18.1 at 430 Mhz. The Baofeng UV5R rubber duck antenna is no good, and unusable on 430Mhz.

I only just found out about these antennas thanks to the nanoVNA.

I ordered more patch leads for sma to PL259, so I could check my HF antennas.   This is great cool stuff.

I am sure there are tons of other stuff this thing can do, but it took me 2 minutes to find out how to sweep and check SWR of antennas, and that is good enough useful for me for now.
« Last Edit: November 21, 2019, 10:09:28 pm by vinlove »
 
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Offline Electro Fan

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Re: nano vna
« Reply #18 on: November 26, 2019, 05:16:58 am »
 

Offline m3vuvTopic starter

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Re: nano vna
« Reply #19 on: November 26, 2019, 07:22:57 am »
Any idea where to get the pc s/w for this?,looks like its not included from epay!
 

Offline m3vuvTopic starter

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Re: nano vna
« Reply #20 on: November 26, 2019, 07:31:25 am »
Just wondered if its possible to retro fit a 4.3 inch display to one of these,anyone tried doing it?
 

Offline PA0PBZ

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Re: nano vna
« Reply #21 on: November 26, 2019, 08:01:43 am »
Any idea where to get the pc s/w for this?,looks like its not included from epay!

This is a nice one:

https://github.com/mihtjel/nanovna-saver/releases/tag/v0.2.0
Keyboard error: Press F1 to continue.
 

Offline bob91343

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Re: nano vna
« Reply #22 on: November 27, 2019, 06:57:58 am »
I played some more and found I could operate it up to 1.5 GHz.  It easily measures line length.  If you can measure the physical length then you can compute the velocity factor.  And measure characteristic impedance.

I measured resonance and Q of an LC circuit.  I haven't tried a crystal yet but frankly I don't care about that.

I could agonize over the limitations but they certainly aren't important most of the time.  And I have other devices that can overcome its limitations.

One thing I didn't expect is that it's a marvelous learning tool.  I can fool with terminations and line lengths and see how everything depends on which factors.  Coax attenuation is easy to measure as well.  Resistor properties vs frequency.

I can't say enough good about this device.  And after a bit of fussing, it becomes very user friendly.  Its accuracy blows my mind.  I built a little load from a half dozen 82 Ohm resistors and should have gotten 54.7 Ohms.  I measured almost exactly that both with my expensive bench gear and the nano,  I checked a few capacitors and inductors and once again found very good agreement with high class gear.
 

Offline m3vuvTopic starter

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Re: nano vna
« Reply #23 on: November 30, 2019, 09:30:20 am »
But the impedance reading problem sounds critical 300 MHz
Have they resolved the problem now?

there is no impedance problem at 300 MHz
well i ordered one from the link as recomended,got a tracking number,turns out it was a false number,seller marked it as posted but royal mail hadnt even received the vna,that was 3 days after seller said it was posted!!,,turns out its from china!,seller hasnt replied to my mails so trying to get my money back via ebay,seems a lot of recomendations are bogus!!
 

Offline bd139

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Re: nano vna
« Reply #24 on: November 30, 2019, 09:50:25 am »
That’s normal. Just wait - it is drop shipped. They print the label and then don’t send it until it arrives bulk from China. Mine took 5 days to turn up (working days). It was delivered from UK not China.

You could pay £300+ for a one port RigExpert from ML&S instead and get the red carpet  :-DD
« Last Edit: November 30, 2019, 09:52:42 am by bd139 »
 


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