Creative grounding ideas - besides the tree in the cup?

[rhb]

Our electrical upgrade and the installation of the two grounding rods was done ten years ago. Honestly, I don't know what our electrician put in there. Whether they were pure copper or galvanized.

I suspect plain copper pipe would be be the best choice. If getting eight feet into the ground proves difficult, more shorter rods bonded together well, would likely be as good, at least where the soil had moisture in it.

At least one knows pipe is copper and likely to last a long time. Perhaps the end going into the ground could be hammered so that it would present a spade point and be easier to push downward? Another idea might be to use continuously running water to perhaps make it easier to push the rod down deep into the soil?

If you want pure copper get this:

https://www.cesco.com/Harger-588C-588C-HARGER-5-8X8-SOLID-CU-GROUND-R/p2058599

or

https://www.cesco.com/Harger-3410C-3410C-HARGER-3-4X10-SOLID-CU-GROUND/p1920430

You will not be able to drive a copper pipe very far before it buckles.

As you can see there is a good reason that galvanized or copper plated steel rods are popular.  Not a big deal to drive a new one in 15 years.  The only reason to use this rather than the  steel would be soil conditions which would remove the plating either by abrasion while driving or by chemical reaction with acidic ground water.

But *do* use a standard product engineered for the application.

[cdev]

The only reason I am "questioning" how good my grounding is here is that I have found that the house AC ground is very noisy. In the past grounding the shortwave receiver always quiets the signal coming from a long wire antenna. Here a lot of noise rides in on the AC power line and CATV cable. (which are both grounded to their own ground rods)

I can tell that by walking around with a small digital AM/FM/SW receiver I have. Basically, it goes nuts when it is brought close to either the power line or the CATV cable.

Grounding the receiver doesn't help this HF noise so much. It seems to make it worse.

All sorts of junk rides in on those outside wires and the grounds just are not up to the task of removing it like has been the case elsewhere for me in the past.

(I've had this receiver for more than 20 yrs, since around 1986-87- so I have lots of experience with its performance.)

Maybe my logic is faulty somewhere? Maybe this is just normal now?

There is a lot of AM junk here, but there was a LOT more FM and VHF/UHF junk where I lived in SF. (for many years, not that far from the Sutro Tower which is used for TV and FM transmission.)

[ogden]

As you can see there is a good reason that galvanized or copper plated steel rods are popular.

Copper plated lasts 30..50 years, galvanized as you say around 15 years (10-20).

Not a big deal to drive a new one in 15 years.

Single rod is OK only for small shack that does not need lightning rod. Even 2-bedroom house needs at least 4 ground rods - one for each lightning rod and at least two or even three for mains power earthing.

Look how much >= 10' rods are needed for wind turbine.

The only reason to use this rather than the steel would be soil conditions which would remove the plating either by abrasion while driving or by chemical reaction with acidic ground water.

Right. Stainless steel rods for salty ground water sites as well. If you own small island in the ocean - use stainless steel. If you are crazy enough purist to buy pure copper grounding rods for 400$ each, make sure nobody knows it, otherwise they will be stolen. Imagine - somebody steals copper of your earthing during bad weather and lightning strikes, then his relatives sue you for negligence 

[cdev]

OMG, does it really cost that much?

(Need to check prices around here!)

No way could/would I ever buy pure copper for that much. Copper piping (which I already have some of) is probably significantly cheaper, but the two pieces of pipe I have - its been years since I bought it. Could have gone up, I suppose.

I find it makes a decent RF case, so have used very small pieces of it in projects.

As you can see there is a good reason that galvanized or copper plated steel rods are popular.

Copper plated lasts 30..50 years, galvanized as you say around 15 years (10-20).

Not a big deal to drive a new one in 15 years.

Single rod is OK only for small shack that does not need lightning rod. Even 2-bedroom house needs at least 4 ground rods - one for each lightning rod and at least two or even three for mains power earthing.

Look how much >= 10' rods are needed for wind turbine.

The only reason to use this rather than the steel would be soil conditions which would remove the plating either by abrasion while driving or by chemical reaction with acidic ground water.

Right. Stainless steel rods for salty ground water sites as well. If you own small island in the ocean - use stainless steel. If you are crazy enough purist to buy pure copper grounding rods for 400$ each, make sure nobody knows it, otherwise they will be stolen. Imagine - somebody steals copper of your earthing during bad weather and lightning strikes, then his relatives sue you for negligence 

Nobody around where I live has lightning rods on their houses. In my memory I have only seen obvious lightning rods on very large houses with lots of lightning exposure. (houses that stick out on a ridge line and present an obvious target for lightning)

Because of CATV and satellite services, few houses in my area now have visible antennas of any kind that stick up. Back in the day when people had TV antennas it was common practice to ground the mast using a thick wire, (but not that thick) to a ground rod.

I don't currently have any antennas mounted anywhere (high or not). Its always been my plan to ground them when I did, though. In a cost effective manner.

The place I live would probably qualify as a little shack.

How would I be able to tell how successful my grounding efforts were?

[ogden]

How would I be able to tell how successful my grounding efforts were?

There are specific earthing measurement/certification procedures and equipment. Just first google hit

I am not expert here. I prefer to hire professionals - you know

[cdev]

Thank you!

This (UK's standards for soil resistance measurement) looks very useful.



I've shied away from use of the term "earthing" in searches, because of... well.. "noise" in the returned data.

(from whence - or perhaps wince is better ...came the title of this post.)

[SeanB]

Copper pipe into ground is easy, just put on the non ground end a compression elbow ( probably will be half inch/16mm copper pipe as that is the most common rigid pipe) and connect a hosepipe to the elbow, stand on ladder and turn on hose while pushing down until rod is buried. Water drills the hole and at the same time improves soil conductivity, provided of course you do not live on an outcropping of hard non permeable stone, sandstone, limestone or such.

Otherwise standard electric fence grounding rods are galvanised, just use a few in parallel to get lower resistance. They are merely cut lengths of standard reinforcing rod with a plate welded on to make bolting the wire on easy, and are then hot dip galvanised.

[tautech]

Copper pipe into ground is easy, just put on the non ground end a compression elbow ( probably will be half inch/16mm copper pipe as that is the most common rigid pipe) and connect a hosepipe to the elbow, stand on ladder and turn on hose while pushing down until rod is buried. Water drills the hole and at the same time improves soil conductivity, provided of course you do not live on an outcropping of hard non permeable stone, sandstone, limestone or such.

Otherwise standard electric fence grounding rods are galvanised, just use a few in parallel to get lower resistance. They are merely cut lengths of standard reinforcing rod with a plate welded on to make bolting the wire on easy, and are then hot dip galvanised.

Better when the ground conditions allow (they don't for cdev) is a full 6M length of 20mm (3/4") threaded galv pipe with 2 90^o elbows fitted so the water connection faces straight down, turn on the water full blast and work the pipe up and down using the 'hydraulic hammer' effect to bore it into the ground.
Easy to do close to a building so to have a helper on the roof to keep the pipe supported vertical until you have enough of it in the ground for it not to fall over. Have done it with a helper person hoisted high in a tractor front end loader bucket.
The weight of the water inside the pipe and the 'lube' it offers against ground resistance allows a 6M length to be sunk full depth in 10-15 mins, less when the ground conditions allow.

The greatest benefit of a single long ground peg is to get well into the water table for an 'all season' highly effective ground. 
Done this ^ a few times for grounds for high power mains electric fences.

[rhb]

I'm a somewhat mongrel PhD level geoscientist.  MS in igneous petrology followed by 4 years pursuing a PhD in geophysics before I lost my financial support.

The effectiveness of connecting a garden hose to one end of a pipe is highly dependent upon the geology.  Works  great in fine alluvial fill.  Doesn't work at all in glacial till or gravel.

I'm 65, I was born in Brooklyn, NY before the merger with Manhattan.  To the best of my knowledge I have never lived in a building with lightening rods.  I have never seen a single family  residence with lightening rods.

At work, yes, a rod about every 12-18" all along the perimeter of the roof with heavy copper braid from each rod.  I never did see what the braid connected to at the ground as it was all landscaped.  Very likely that is where those very expensive solid copper rods get used.

It's important to understand that lightening rods are there to dissipate charge differentials.  That is why they are pointed.  Grounding a lightening arrestor for an antenna is entirely different.

An ultra  conservative approach would be  to drive two 8' standard copper plated steel rods a few inches apart.  Attach a piece of 1/4" by 1.5"  copper bus bar between them with a hole for bulkhead mounting the lightening arrestor.  Drill and tap the ground rods after installation, bolt the bus bar to the rods and then solder after cleaning with sand paper and applying acid plumbing flux.

For verifying the effectiveness of the grounding, measure the resistance between the two rods before installing the bus bar.  If you do the Reg overkill approach and install a 2nd arrestor at the house entrance, make a 4 wire measurement of the resistance between the feedpoint ground and the entrance ground.  If you can't make a 4 wire meaurement, measure the resistance of the wires and then subtract that from the 2 wire measurement.

It's important to remember that the objective is to prevent a high voltage pulse being applied to the RF input of your rig.  The ham radio club station I used while getting my MS had a bulkhead on the wall.  You were expected to connect the appropriate antenna when you started to operate and to disconnect them when you left.  The club station and antennas were on top of an 8-10 story building that housed the EE department.  This was not a switch.  It was a row of PL-259s on the wall bulkhead and a row of labeled cables.

Remember, you're trying to protect the radio gear. If lightening hits the antenna, some or all of the feedline is going to be destroyed

[coppercone2]

if you mess with the ground impedance by shorting it with a bunch of wires for some kind of counterposie or whatever, are you more likely to take a lighting strike?

same thing if you drive a buncha rods deep for a better ground.

I assume the answer for small stuff is unmeasurable but how about really large ground modification systems? and waterlogging of substrate.

[ogden]

if you mess with the ground impedance by shorting it with a bunch of wires for some kind of counterposie or whatever, are you more likely to take a lighting strike?

Unless you are doing it for huge areas, it does not change lightning hit probability. Some say that proper lightning rod(s) with pointy spike(s) may slightly decrease hit probability due to corona discharge, but opponents including me, disagree. That corona dissipate gazillion times lower energy than charge of clouds above - how it can help?

Ground impedance shorting, let's say low impedance earthing between all the interconnected structures helps to reduce lightning step voltage which occur when it hits nearby structure (tower/building/tree). If you have tower in the field/backyard and cable is going into your radio shack, you would want to make good, common for both, low impedance earthing system. Otherwise ground bus between tower and your shack is RF cable. You would not want that even when lightning does not directly hit your tower. This is why it is so important to do very good grounding of any cable where it enters house BTW. If you fail in this regard then results can be nasty or even deadly. You want to get lightning into the ground as soon as possible so it does not seek path to neutral of the power grid through every appliance & water pipe of your home.

[coppercone2]

does anyone have any good recommended guides on how to build a lighting protection system for a small house, say 2000 sqft?

preferably a nice amusing youtube video. an over built one that people here can agree is good.

[coppercone2]

anyone got a copy of IEC 62305?

fucking IEC want money to tell you how to prevent your cave from burning down

http://www.zinoglobal.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/12/IEC-62305-1-1.pdf
http://www.zinoglobal.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/12/IEC-62305-2-1.pdf
http://www.zinoglobal.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/12/IEC-62305-3-1.pdf
http://www.zinoglobal.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/12/IEC-62305-4-1.pdf


this tells u what u need to read


http://www.pts.ir/panel/images/post/tpb85gmi6kIEC%20625611-621.pdf
http://www.pts.ir/panel/images/post/n53p2z19cqIEC%20625612-378.pdf