Author Topic: Youyue 858D+ some reverse engineering + custom firmware  (Read 423971 times)

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Offline horga83

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Re: Youyue 858D+ some reverse engineering + custom firmware
« Reply #425 on: February 21, 2017, 11:40:49 pm »
Anyone know where the schematic and parts list is for these boards?  I've searched high and low and can't find anything.
I of course mean the wguibas MK1841D3 adapter board in the previous post.

Many thanks.

« Last Edit: February 21, 2017, 11:42:59 pm by horga83 »
 

Offline manianac

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Re: Youyue 858D+ some reverse engineering + custom firmware
« Reply #426 on: February 22, 2017, 02:16:08 am »
Anyone know where the schematic and parts list is for these boards?  I've searched high and low and can't find anything.
I of course mean the wguibas MK1841D3 adapter board in the previous post.

Many thanks.

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/reviews/youyue-858d-some-reverse-engineering-custom-firmware/msg888729/#msg888729

This is wguibas' board, I followed the traces to make mine.  I don't know of any schematics currently though.
 

Offline Gixy

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Re: Youyue 858D+ some reverse engineering + custom firmware
« Reply #427 on: February 22, 2017, 06:37:13 am »
@manianac
Hum, in your board the traces width seems too thin. Are you sure that your manufacturer can do that? Usually 6 or 8 mils is a minimum and you can't put 3 traces then between two pins of a DIP package.
 

Offline manianac

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Re: Youyue 858D+ some reverse engineering + custom firmware
« Reply #428 on: February 23, 2017, 01:03:44 am »
@manianac
Hum, in your board the traces width seems too thin. Are you sure that your manufacturer can do that? Usually 6 or 8 mils is a minimum and you can't put 3 traces then between two pins of a DIP package.

I used 6mil traces except for the power/ground.  OSHPark has worked flawlessly for me on a board in the past (PCB size was the primary goal) with 6mil, so I"m not too worried about that.

That all said, I am still very new to this, so there's always a great chance I messed up.  Where did I put three traces between the pins?  I don't see that looking at the pcb.
 

Offline Gixy

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Re: Youyue 858D+ some reverse engineering + custom firmware
« Reply #429 on: February 23, 2017, 06:53:21 am »
You're right. Only two traces, I haven't seen the third one turning around the pin very near from the hole. Aniway if you have enough space, you'd better using 8 mils minimum width.
 
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Offline cephyr

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Re: Youyue 858D+ some reverse engineering + custom firmware
« Reply #430 on: February 24, 2017, 10:52:45 pm »
If you give me your address I could send one out to you for just the shipping.  The shipping costs like $13.50 USD, at least thats what it was to bulgaria for a package.  Maybe just the board without the components could be sent in a regular Letter envelope for much cheaper.

Wayne

hey wayne,

Got an replacement unit. I've sent you an PM
 

Offline raihei

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Re: Youyue 858D+ some reverse engineering + custom firmware
« Reply #431 on: March 09, 2017, 05:15:15 pm »
hey @raihei thanks for sharing!

I also recieved an Kaleep rework station with the same chip
looking forward to mod mine too.
Which conversion PCB did you use?


Sorry for the late reply, I soldered a conversion PCB by myself with a protoype solderboard.

If you give me your address I could send one out to you for just the shipping.  The shipping costs like $13.50 USD, at least thats what it was to bulgaria for a package.  Maybe just the board without the components could be sent in a regular Letter envelope for much cheaper.

Wayne

Do you still have a conversion PCB from MK1841D3 left which you could send me without components via letter to germany? How much will it cost? I want to replace my handmade prototype board with a professional one  :)
« Last Edit: March 09, 2017, 05:21:00 pm by raihei »
 

Offline manianac

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Re: Youyue 858D+ some reverse engineering + custom firmware
« Reply #432 on: March 11, 2017, 12:18:53 am »
I have finally assembled my MK1841D3 conversion board, and it works like a champ.  Thank you madworm for your awesome firmware, and wguibas for the MK1841D3 layout.

 

Offline wguibas

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Re: Youyue 858D+ some reverse engineering + custom firmware
« Reply #433 on: March 11, 2017, 12:43:54 am »
Quote
Do you still have a conversion PCB from MK1841D3 left which you could send me without components via letter to germany? How much will it cost? I want to replace my handmade prototype board with a professional on

 I'll check it out  and let you know.
 

Offline iflorinache

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Re: Youyue 858D+ some reverse engineering + custom firmware
« Reply #434 on: March 11, 2017, 09:36:13 pm »
Hi, guys.
I began to read long ago about changes to this station soldering and decided to buy it. Even if I had a whole adventure with buying, finally got to me.
After a few experiments I decided to open it, during which I found to have the same defect: loose ground.
The chip is MK1841D3, but I have a new version for PCB.
The question is how to mod the station? What boards can I use?
Thank you.
« Last Edit: March 11, 2017, 09:43:04 pm by iflorinache »
 

Offline dorin

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Re: Youyue 858D+ some reverse engineering + custom firmware
« Reply #435 on: March 12, 2017, 06:10:45 pm »
I got a "YOUYUE" from Aliexpress in hopes of easy hackability but this also has the MK1841D3, bummer. It wasn't one of the cheapest at 55 euros, but at least the assembly quality is decent. It has okay soldering, good grounding and the physical switch is not on the same line as the triac switch, therefore there's no mains voltage on the front connector when the unit is turned off.

Instead of bothering with an MK to ATmega adapter board, i'd rather redesign a complete mainboard for this station, that would also overcome the hardware limitations that the custom firmware can't solve, like fan detection and electronic dimming for better heater control.

Wondering how many folks would be interested in this?
Proposed features:
 - Powerful STM32 MCU (can run classical arduino no worries, see stm32duino)
 - Digital dimming for heater (currently the triac is only being switched on/off at a relatively low frequency, causing thermal fatigue and non-optimal control)
 - BLDC fan detection (to check that it spins at least, best to measure RPM using signal extraction from power noise)
 - Full digital control of the fan (currently the external pot is hardwired to the fan, MCU can only turn on/off)
 - Beeper
 - ?
« Last Edit: March 12, 2017, 06:29:07 pm by dorin »
 
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Offline bitseeker

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Re: Youyue 858D+ some reverse engineering + custom firmware
« Reply #436 on: March 13, 2017, 05:19:54 am »
That sounds like an interesting project, dorin.

I wonder how much more work would be needed to make it support the Youyue 8586, which added a soldering iron to the station. I'm not sure if a dual-purpose PCB could be concocted, but it might be nice to have improved temp control for the iron, too.
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Online mleyden

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Re: Youyue 858D+ some reverse engineering + custom firmware
« Reply #437 on: March 13, 2017, 11:20:40 am »
@dorin - I'd be interested...

OLED Display?
 

Offline dorin

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Re: Youyue 858D+ some reverse engineering + custom firmware
« Reply #438 on: March 14, 2017, 09:26:06 am »
That sounds like an interesting project, dorin.

I wonder how much more work would be needed to make it support the Youyue 8586, which added a soldering iron to the station. I'm not sure if a dual-purpose PCB could be concocted, but it might be nice to have improved temp control for the iron, too.

The circuit logic part of the air gun would definitely be the same, but the PCB would need to be redesigned from scratch because the 8586 has a different layout for the LED display and buttons. I am not sure how much this would be worth it since it doesn't seem to be a popular model.


@dorin - I'd be interested...
OLED Display?

Because LED segments are so last century right  ;D
SSD1306 128x64 would vertically fit well in the existing cutout, but horizontally it is not wide enough so there would be some gaps.. And any bigger OLED that I know of is way too big for the cutout and not cheap at all.
Plus, the current display has good contrast too, the only problem is displaying messages.
« Last Edit: March 14, 2017, 09:30:12 am by dorin »
 

Offline bitseeker

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Re: Youyue 858D+ some reverse engineering + custom firmware
« Reply #439 on: March 14, 2017, 08:58:06 pm »
I wonder how much more work would be needed to make it support the Youyue 8586, which added a soldering iron to the station. I'm not sure if a dual-purpose PCB could be concocted, but it might be nice to have improved temp control for the iron, too.

The circuit logic part of the air gun would definitely be the same, but the PCB would need to be redesigned from scratch because the 8586 has a different layout for the LED display and buttons. I am not sure how much this would be worth it since it doesn't seem to be a popular model.

Yeah, I kind of figured it'd be like that. It's true that the 8586 isn't as popular as the 858. I got it because it was only a few dollars more -- the iron alone cost more than it did to get it as part of the 8586. So, it's my backup iron in case my Hakko ever needs fixing.
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Offline Shock

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Re: Youyue 858D+ some reverse engineering + custom firmware
« Reply #440 on: March 16, 2017, 12:10:28 am »
Some repair videos that show internals and heater operation. Interesting in the last video, perhaps the always on failure of wands burning out is caused by the RC snubber circuit failing.



« Last Edit: March 16, 2017, 12:22:12 am by Shock »
Soldering/Rework: Pace ADS200, Pace MBT350
Multimeters: Fluke 189, 87V, 117, 112   >>> WANTED STUFF <<<
Oszilloskopen: Lecroy 9314, Phillips PM3065, Tektronix 2215a, 314
 
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Offline dorin

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Re: Youyue 858D+ some reverse engineering + custom firmware
« Reply #441 on: March 22, 2017, 09:33:56 am »
Looks like someone tried to redesign this before but the project has been dead for the past 11 months after progressing reasonably far:



http://www.heartoftechnology.com/blog-update-858d-and-reddit-design-challenges/
 

Offline Christe4nM

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Re: Youyue 858D+ some reverse engineering + custom firmware
« Reply #442 on: March 22, 2017, 04:42:58 pm »
Hi all,

I'm the guy behind Heart of Technology and I feel like it's past time that you hear more about the project. I'll think about maybe starting my own thread, but here's an overview for everyone reading this tread.

History
I did start out about a year ago and got the PCB almost done, but still needed to do component value calculations in the schematic and finishing touches on the PCB. That was about April last year. Then for multiple reasons I was simply unable to spend any time at all on the project, hence it seemed to be dead for 11 months. (There used to be an update on my blog that the project was still alive but it looks like I lost it when I had to restore the site from backup recently.)

Actually, I just started last month to work on the project with a fresh look. I like to do things thoroughly which can take a bit of time. For example I spend at least a day trying to understand how safety standards relate to clearances on the PCB and if I could use a TO-220 package for the triac without violating said standards.
In the past I did consider writing blog posts on the design so far, but I found that I’m not the person to put something out there that I haven’t tested myself yet. Also writing those posts takes time off the design time, so it’s either one or the other. In any case, the design as it was (like at the time of the rendering of the PCB I uploaded) has a few flaws that make me not want to share those design files. I might have generated too much expectation at the time by showing off a PCB of an unfinished schematic.

Design
The reason for doing this redesign is most of all to learn about everything involved, not just to get it done. So I went into things like EMC standards, safety standards, triac snubber design, auto-zero opamp input current bias, thermocouple step response times and control loop design. For me the reasoning why a design is done the way it is, is at least as important as the design itself.

As the design is now, it has the following parts:
- Mains powered heater driver.
- Mains zero-cross detection (to sample ADC and run control loop at 100/120Hz).
- Linear DC fan driver switched on/off by the microcontroller. (PWM is unfeasible in this design for several reasons in my view.)
- Fan stall detection: this gives feedback whether fan is indeed running.
- (Proper) Thermocouple amplifier with over-temperature comparator in hardware.
- Hardware logic to make sure the heater does not turn on if there is a fault with either the fan or temperature. This is separate from the MCU in case firmware gets this wrong for whatever reason.
- The microcontroller and user interface.

For the microcontroller I went with an NXP (Freescale) Kinetis 5V part. It's not Arduino but this is one I'm familiar with and have the tools for. (Actually when I first started out with microcontrollers I had to go into a big ARM with no prior knowledge. So I bypassed the classic learning path with PICs and AVRs, and Arduino came only a few years later when I was coding for a then new STM32 ARM M4.)
Since so many people are familiar with Arduino I am thinking of doing a second design with a 5V AVR, but for now that'll have to wait until the first design is done.

Status
I do have a schematic for almost all the circuits but it is incomplete and I’ve found mistakes. So right now I’m revisiting all the parts of the schematic. The fan driver and the thermocouple amplifier are done right now.
I decided not to put everything on one PCB on the first go, but rather have a separate proto PCB for each sub-circuit. This makes testing each part easier I think. However I want to order the complete BOM in one go, so that’ll have to wait until I have everything done.

So there you have it.
« Last Edit: March 22, 2017, 05:37:13 pm by Christe4nM »
 
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Offline bitseeker

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Re: Youyue 858D+ some reverse engineering + custom firmware
« Reply #443 on: March 23, 2017, 07:18:02 pm »
Thanks for the history and update. Looking forward to following the project.
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Offline madwormTopic starter

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Re: Youyue 858D+ some reverse engineering + custom firmware
« Reply #444 on: March 27, 2017, 06:04:52 pm »
Same here 😆
 

Offline cinealfa

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Re: Youyue 858D+ some reverse engineering + custom firmware
« Reply #445 on: April 09, 2017, 05:08:02 am »
Quote
Do you still have a conversion PCB from MK1841D3 left which you could send me without components via letter to germany? How much will it cost? I want to replace my handmade prototype board with a professional on

 I'll check it out  and let you know.
I would like one as well, Sent you a PM
 

Offline sprok

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Re: Youyue 858D+ some reverse engineering + custom firmware
« Reply #446 on: April 17, 2017, 12:04:37 am »
.
« Last Edit: October 11, 2017, 07:24:55 pm by sprok »
 

Offline Strada916

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Re: Youyue 858D+ some reverse engineering + custom firmware
« Reply #447 on: April 17, 2017, 06:05:44 am »
Has anyone determined what differences there are, if any, between the 220V and 110V versions?

I'm looking around and some of the 220V models look better but I need 110V and don't know how hard it would be to switch. The power cord is obviously different but that's very easy to change. The killer problem would be if the heater core is designed for a specific voltage.
Most likely different transformer and heater element.

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Offline Barm

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Re: Youyue 858D+ some reverse engineering + custom firmware
« Reply #448 on: April 20, 2017, 05:21:56 pm »
I have discovered a newer version of 858D mainboard (from Aliexpress seller).

858D06.PCB
2016.09.29

The main differences from 858D04 versions are:
1) SMD components design and, as a result - a different PCB layout
2) Heatsink on TIP122
3) controller MK1840D3 (could not find info, is it different from MK1841D3

I have not tested yet, will check on a next week.

UPD.
Looks like the same board as here
« Last Edit: April 20, 2017, 05:28:27 pm by Barm »
 

Offline Shock

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Re: Youyue 858D+ some reverse engineering + custom firmware
« Reply #449 on: April 21, 2017, 04:42:59 am »
You brought the bare pcb for or which station?
Soldering/Rework: Pace ADS200, Pace MBT350
Multimeters: Fluke 189, 87V, 117, 112   >>> WANTED STUFF <<<
Oszilloskopen: Lecroy 9314, Phillips PM3065, Tektronix 2215a, 314
 


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