Portaband vertical benchmount conversion

[KL27x]

I have had a portaband for a couple years now, but it has mostly collected dust. Most of my garage shop evolved around specific needs for electronics. I bought my first jigsaw to build and modify enclosures. I built a router table specifically to cut PCB. I build jigs for handling electronics components and PCBs for assembly, testing, etc. in manufacturing. When word got around I bought a welder, I got a 5" angle grinder one Christmas, the kind AvE uses; it barely fits on my "welding table." I have never had to cut down a trailer or anything like that. And as huge as the grinder is, the portaband is way huger and heavier. I always intended to build a stand for it, for cutting small stuff. But I never figured out where I was going to put it.

I figured that out.

I hope you guys (i.e. Coppercone2) like this.

*Video removed by me, because it included the use of dangerous tools of which I'm not an expert nor did I include warnings or disclaimers.

[Gregg]

Nicely done; a lot of thought went into that transformation.
And the nice part is that it didn't take a bunch of posts to the forum with questions all along the way.

[KL27x]

Thanks. Thought went into it, yeah.

The front skid, I just added pieces until it was stable, to find the minimum it needed.

I made it as low as possible while still having room to get a paint brush under the saw to clear the chips. This is not just to save height, but it's to make it copacetic with my drill press, which laid stake to this corner years ago.

I have just over 2" clearance between the top of the saw table and the bottom of my drill press chuck. So I can handle up to 2" material without moving the drill press out the way.

All I have to do to use the saw is to drop the table on my drill press equal or lower than the saw table. And because the saw is setback behind the vice, all I have to do is drag the drill press forward to drill long pieces.

I made the table extend ~3" in front of the blade, so's I can cut up to 2" angle when laid like a tent. Not that I have ever laid hands on 2" angle, yet. My steel supply to date has been w/e home depot has, and w/e fits easily in a flat rate USPS box. The saw has just a shade over the advertised 5" cut width, even with the 1/4" table replacing the original foot plate. So you would also want at least a bit more than 2.5" table in front of the blade for that reason, if you wanted to have the ability to conveniently cut a 5" OD tube or pipe.

I thought of half a dozen ways to secure the wooden pegleg to the saw handle. Hose clamp. Zip ties through the square tube. PET straps cut from a bottle, joined with soldering iron, heatshrunk. Delrin rod stuck through the handle, bored for a brass pin, to maintain double-insulation. But after getting it bedded like a glove, I can't see adding anything. It feels rock solid. The weak-link is when unclamped and rocking back/right, and the wood leg stays with the machine throughout. It's the size/shape of the base that fails, first. I would have to extend or flip around the foot before I would need to worry about securing the leg to the machine any better. That took a good fit, BTW, and some repairs with wood shavings and glue to fill in the critical low spots. The point being I can cross that bridge if I ever get there and want to move the machine.

[coppercone2]

Hmm, this gives me an idea. I have had a plan for a long time to finish my welding table and make it so that the slats can be adjusted with tapered pins to adjust the spacing, so that it can be turned into a giant drill press stand if necessary

It would not have much depth, but a thin slat could be used to add a battery powered band saw to the table on a modified slat or something

perhaps it could round off weird stuff like a thick aluminum plate that plasma would have trouble cutting. And feed angles could be set with magblocks (adjustable angle one+rails maybe)

unfortunately my corded band saw emitted smoke and was thrown away long after a switch repair

i like how its not a 300 pound cast iron behemoth with a 5 foot exclusion zone around it

[Kleinstein]

Small band saws are tricky tools. Due to the relatively sharp bend around the small rollers the blades tend to last not very long. This may be ok for hard materials and if no running idle longer times. The bands can also be relative expensive - however it depends on how common the size is.

At least for wood working the rollers are ideally not much smaller than some 500 mm.
At least in Germany used band saws are relatively low price, if you don't mind the weight / size and age. 300 pounds is more like the light weight newer ones.

[coppercone2]

for the base against the handle, you could make it two parts that mate with thumb screw when they are fit over each other

that piece could also have a trigger mechanism to latch the trigger since it would fit around the trigger (maybe a cam like a foldable saw horse)

and it could use a magnetic mount LED light (3x AAA on pushbutton maybe)

and to make it portable without a death wish, it could deploy struts that fit into each other, again with thumb wheel


and you can glue rubber to the bottom with loctite 480 to make it more stable

but i don't know if all the friction and stiffness even if precisely made could make it safe without mass.. lol you can stuff a lead filled rectangular tubing in the bottom when you are working with more dangerous materials that can kick it

and since the tubing on the bottom is open, its possible to maybe chain it around something like a saw horse, it would be kind of cool if you are doing outdoor decorative work with wood in a garden (finish carpentry on a raised bed idk)


I made a table for my fordable and collapsible saw horse (actually fits on a wire shelf w/ nicely finished wood that has a H shape of wood (flats) under neath that clamps into the saw horse to turn it into a flat table, the underside of the H will have rotatable bits (like a chinook) eventually that lock it to the saw horse to turn it into a stabler table that can't pop out. This would be a good tool for it, especially since the folded steel saw horse (not the A shape one, but the one with a little foot bench and cams) is a little heavy and gets pretty stiff when deployed.

This stuff is good for making a non shitty garden

[KL27x]

least for wood working the rollers are ideally not much smaller than some 500 mm.

I have experienced the problem of continually breaking blades on a small 9" wood saw, for sure. The smaller wheels definitely don't help for that. But the build quality was probably a bigger issue on that particular saw of mine. With a stiff enough frame and good enough damping, there seem to be plenty of people who are very happy with their 9" and 10" wood bandsaws, these days.  But the price-point doesn't make any sense, to me. The steel frame benchtop wood bandsaws are like $260-350.00. The 14" saws are barely more, and at a minimum you will have less frequent blade changes and subsequent tuning, even if the smaller benchtop saw could do what you need. I don't know what you are cutting, Kleinstein, but for the stuff I do my 14" saw is uber-reliable. 500mm would be great, but I'm not doing A-bom level stuff, here. I mostly drop F-boms in my garage. I can do that without spending $2k more for the saw (and for the $300 carbide blade I'd just have to buy if I had a 20" saw!)

FYI, these steel-cutting bandsaws are way slower in speed than wood saws. This makes it practical to use much smaller wheels vs a woodsaw. And the whole point in converting a portaband is to cut steel! As far as portabands go, the 5" ARE the big ones.* They make much smaller and lighter ones that you can use with one hand, with even smaller wheels! The entry-level horizontal steel-cutting saws are not much larger, if at all, than these large portabands, other than the stand/framework. But they probably have quieter motors.

All that said, I have to admit. The sound this HF saw makes doesn't inspire a lot of confidence. But as much as I've cut so far on the first blade? Heck, if it lasts the 3-pack, it might still be worth it to me to try the HF lottery, again. The cost was never an issue. And now I have it mounted and integrated, space is not really a big issue, either. 

Heck, I bought this one for $100 2-3 years back. And now it's on sale for $89.99 until the end of June!? Of course, I never really save that much. When I buy something like this at HF, I can't resist buying a boatload of other crap I don't really need. HF knows that. 
There's also a Wen brand 5" portaband selling on eBay for $115 - $120 or so, all day.

Copper, yeah, those are all good ideas. I'll revisit them if/when I ever want to change how I use the saw. It's not a very long walk from one end of my garage to the other, so I have a feeling my saw is going to live and die where it now sits.

*If you were not familiar with a "portable bandsaw," aka portaband, I guess you might have got the wrong impression from the title. I'll edit it. This is a well-known modification, by now, for the reason of making a (vertical) bandsaw that will cut steel. Not to make a bandsaw that is portable. Even the common commercial vertical metal saws are dual horizontal/vertical and both cost a bit more than a portaband as well as take up more space.

[coppercone2]

I just think it has alot of potential to be highly mobile since you build it so light

A heavy option would be big cast epoxy granite surfaces ETC (well sand, I have yet to see anyone do it with actual powered granite)

[KL27x]

I think these are pretty heavy to begin with, though! I'm not sure if adding any weight is really necessary. The rubber feet and the telescoping foot would probably do the trick, though.

In just playing around with this, it IS much handier to move around when it's vertical, hooking it around the "roof" of the saw, near the top bearing guides with one hand. Just don't slip and drop it! As compared to picking it up when it's laying around, the handles are at either end, and it doesn't carry well with just one of these carry points. That's really the huge problem with the portability of a 5" portable bandsaw. They probably weigh over 20 lbs, they don't lay flat, they take up a ton of space even in storage. With limited bench space, I had to lay it on the floor whenever I used it, which due to that being pretty sucky was not very often.* And if you de-tension the HF version, the blade pops out, randomly. The most compact way to store it is basically in the huge igloo cooler box that it comes in. It takes less space just leaving it set on the bench, the way I have it set up.

*I think Jimmy Diresta's version is pretty ideal for a hand-saw, cuz it sits upright in either direction all those times you will have to set it on the ground... and pick it back up. In my limited experience, this is the biggest bane to the experience. It's ergonomic when in use, but it's the other 90% of the time it is a pain.

[coppercone2]

you can test it by trying to cut something that normally causes a bandsaw to knock (idk what this is, I think it happened to me before on a hand held one (I think it was cutting some weird shape low cost aluminum frame, after it happened decided to switch to metal saw).. I only use band saw for 'normal' geometries, like pipe, etc

(think like shitty solar panel frame, 60% of a C section tube with a bunch of different ribs and a small flange on it, with another flange on that, so it almost looks like a spiral when you look at it sideways (if you exadurate the topology))

To be honest I tend to use the metal cutting saw more often (milwakee non fuel one).. it cuts through steel flat bar fine.. the hand held one does not have the precision benefits of a table mount one, and even on a lathe or whatever typically you can thin it down to use with the smallest portable band saw if you don't want to use a hack saw for parting.

I guess I bought it anticipating cutting way more huge objects (maybe I did precut with it on a 4x4 hollow tube before it went on the metal miter saw).


and idk if you can implement it, but the safety guard that comes down on a modern table band saw is something I use (but it never like prevented a problem). Then again I use a table saw without a protective splitter... as usual safe work is for rich people


a band saw fails video would be interesting. With a table saw I try to do most of the work on the push plate rather then using it in a orientation where I need to push it with a stick


For some reason I think for doing electronics related cutting on a band saw, the only dangerous object might be a weird extrusion case (i.e. hard drive case).

[coppercone2]

https://sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?242385-Bandsaw-kickback

this is kinda scary, I never attempted to do something like this (resaw) because the blade drift was too high.. kinda scary if you make the tool super precise you can end up using it unsafely.


Thats when I noticed alot of injuries happen too, when I am trying to work quiet doing things weird because its late at night. (overloading quiet tools basically), or simply overplanning motion to minimize clanging (downright paranoid and it means you are working WAY too late).

Smart thing to do is to tap, glue, scribe, measure and draw at 1am lol

[KL27x]

I have a pretty good relationship with my wood bandsaw. I have never had a "bandsaw kickback," but I've chunked the blade a couple times trying to cut a round that wasn't gripped tightly enough. If your thumb happened to be pushing in line with the blade, that kinda thing could conceivably spin your thumb over the top and into the blade. I am completely paranoid about getting any bits inline with the blade, though; I think it is pretty much common sense.

If you for some reason decided to cut a small piece while holding it completely off the table, that would also be dangerous. When it gets to the end, the saw can grab and break/fold the piece into two without separating it. Then the piece folds in a blink, pulling the ends towards the blade. And this happens so fast, you wouldn't even know to let go. This is a weird one, because it could hurt you even if kept all your bits out of the line of the blade.

I dunno, but between those two rules of keeping the work on the table and not pushing your thumbs/parts in line with the blade, the bandsaw is fairly benign. That's what I like about it. If something goes wrong in the middle of a cut, I just stop, clamp the piece/sled if it's too long to sit there on its own, let go, turn off the saw, then fix w/e needs to be fixed. There's no kickback like on a table saw. You can't get into a situation where you find the cut going screwy; it doesn't look like it will finish without jamming/catching; and you are stuck holding one end of the work and figuring out how to get out of that situation without shooting a missile across the garage. Worst that happens is you screw up your insert, blade, sled, w/e. And if you can't let go of the work, you might have to back it out at the worst.

If the blade is wrecked, it's only $10.00 down the drain. When the blade breaks, it's not a spinning blade of death. As long as the covers are on, it just stops.

For straight cuts in small pieces I use a sled and have plenty of options for holding the pieces without my paws. Resawing or long rips in thick realwood (wood with grain) I use a point fence, because you do have to make adjustments for the grain to get the straightest cuts with mortal-size bandsaws. I had lots of problems making straight cuts for the first several years of learning from YouTube. There's lots of great stuff on there, like this portaband mod. But the internet doesn't know how to tune a bandsaw. If you follow the popular opinion, you will either happen to fall into that small percent that just happens to improve when following this voodoo. Or you will chase your own tail.

As far as a steel cutting bandsaw, I can't imagine a safer way to cut steel. I suppose the horizontal saw is the safest. Clamp it, turn it on, and be nowhere near it while it cuts. But compared to an angle grinder, there seems to be way less that can go wrong.

Some tools I just don't trust myself to use? Tablesaw, circular saw, lathe. I know those will maim in a blink, and the first lesson will probably be the one to do it. I don't consider myself disciplined and conscientious enough to be around those tools. Those are more dangerous than a bandsaw, IMO.

[coppercone2]

bosch turns it into a chop saw

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k3aN6WPsb20&feature=youtu.be

if someone wants to build any band saw stand, it might be a good idea to start with a bosche saw because it has mounting holes and an aluminum body.. so if you are new and getting into metal work you could potentially buy one tool and build 2 adapters (the one in thread and copy bosche one)

https://www.ebayshopkorea.com/itm/Bosch-1XR-Mount-for-GCB-120-Band-Saw/253082432377

its not the cheapest thing in the world, you can make something precise enough for a chop saw probably (maybe better project then building your own lathe!!)

3x the cost of a bouer HF one though (but I don't even go to that store anymore since their ultrasonic cleaner broke off the glue and started melting through the bottom of the chassis! fuck horror freight. I also could not figure out why there was water in the bottom of the ultrasonic on the electronics.. I was going crazy.. I realized just now (6 months later) that the tank is actually 3 pieces!  there is a hidden lip under the lid, so its not like they formed the rim of the container as the seal, there is another bit.. so if it splashes around the tank water gets on the HV electronics! piece of shit! They could not get their metal forming operation right, so they put a plastic adapter that fits the lid 'nice'. But guess what, water condenses on the lid and drips through the seal into the FUCKING POWER SUPPLY. Also, they mounted a PSU on the fucking bottom rather then make it wider and put it on the side so at least water does not pool down there.

I am going to take it apart, add mesh screens on the vent holes to minimize splash, drill a hole on the bottom so it actually drains if water gets in, and conformal coat the PCB, and add silicone flowable adhesives in the inside of the rim. Even when it looks good its partially completed LOL.

Oh yea, and add a membrane over the keypad because water gets in through the buttons. oh and probobly redo the loose crimps and adhesive mount them. (loose trollex connectors). Or just fucking throw it out. And drill some holes on top of the PCB so water can drain instead of silently doing electrolysis.


Guess it needs 'water cooling' to run right??


Oh right, I remember what happened to the old band saw, that I think was HF. It broke, but before it broke it had a incident where some how the saw blade slipped off the rotation disks and started cutting into the chassis (so when it was dislodged, it still had enough energy from one of the spinning disks to cut into itself). I don't remember the exact mechanics of how it happened, must have been in like 2006. And the switch broke before it smoked up too. Same thing happened with the little HF shop vac, bad switch.. but it also happened to the delta miter saw (though, that thing was from the 80's)

and, I am pretty sure you know,but AVE does some analysis on HF tools to show actual weak points (instead of just like obvious cost cutting ease of use (typically HF user is like "im a manly man I can get around that little problem with bad grip etc".. he actually diagnosis the problems that actually can effect the skilled/determined people takes some complicated mechanical analysis (non obvious) to justify the use of good power tools other then just being 'fancy' and 'expensive').


Also, due to having a HF user in the house, I had the displeasure of dropping one of the adjustable angle head ratchets and having it explode when it fell 3 feet off a table. A new one too.. I actually thought it might be good and was questioning my more expensive brand name purchases before a ball bearing flew off into the darkness... (they really figured out how to make shitty ratchets look good now).


I can't imagine having a shop filled with HF crap. Just fixing the ultrasonic cleaner is a big effort.. its like 6 mods to make it safe/good (then I am sure some unobtanium flyback transformer will fry). Do you have a 3rd eye for this shit after a while Though, I noticed in general, anything with fluids, even like high end VWR gear that is expensive (i.e. pump controller).. is built like shit. 1000$ unit looks like it was a point to point wired bootleg budget knockoff stereo made in 1950. Like first year college EE protoboard.. but with solder. Tumbleweed. Not neat nice point to point wiring.. I am talking like it just being stuffed in there. Hot plates are great, but as soon as it has a any kind of pump fittings on it or whatever, my hair stands on the back of my head.

[KL27x]

I don't usually need professional quality construction/shop tools. For home repair/reno stuff what involves sweating and dusty crawlspaces, I use the phone to call my handyman.

I must be lucky, so far. I can't think of anything from HF I was truly disappointed with. In fact, I can't recall a single HF tool that I ever wore out or broke, TBH. I gave a working HF belt sander away, after I upgraded to a larger and quieter bench sander. I still have all the other HF tools I ever bought, and they are all still working. My little drill press is the first and oldest, probably around 10 years old. It's on its second drive belt, and although it takes awhile (I give it a low duty cycle), it will drill 1/2" holes in steel.

There are several HF tools I would highly recommend, even. I think what sold me on the HF portaband was ChuckE2009's review of it. When he broke it within 5 minutes of taking it out of the box, I was like yep. That's the one I want, lol. The problem that sent this man over the edge was 2 phillips head screws what stick out a little too far. They're non-structural; they just hold the rubber protector on, and the blade can catch on them when you take it out. Backing them out half a turn took 20 seconds. But this guy decided he had to take the entire saw apart.

The fact he films the return and they gave him a refund without any problem is the icing on the cake. How do you go wrong with that?

[coppercone2]

chuckey disappeared after going on some white nationalist/isolationist rant or something

too much tweak or something

[KL27x]

^Yeah, I discovered that when I finally noticed his channel and videos were gone, earlier this year.

Our media is a political machine, and YT is no exception. I never saw any of this ranting and racism. Never really noticed any politics or agenda, even. W/e the truth of his personal politics, I honestly don't really care. I didn't watch any of his videos for that.

I imagine he could have saved the channel, but only by "bending the knee" to some douches at YT. But he probably got himself worked up too much by then.

Wranglerstar, OTOH, I switched off almost immediately. I still like to know how to get him completely out of my feed. This guy is obviously a racist. Heck, even AvE gets a bit cringy when he's a had a few too many.

I'm sure there are racists and extremists all over the place. Just cuz people are good at being PC, publicly, meh. I'm sure 90% of the people I watch are assholes. If ChuckE's old vids were still up, I'd still reference them for the information. I don't have to agree with anyone's politics to appreciate what they're good at. Humankind; we're all assholes in some way or another.

[coppercone2]

yea i had no idea chucky had heat until I tried to figure out why his channel went missing. I enjoyed his channel because he made low precision work useful (don't need expensive German machine tools)

obviously i don't like people who try to get the shop or lab involved with politics (then its a target for an enemy party, well at least stupid/opportunistic people). There is probably some hard core left winger that is saying weld shops are the Reich now. They are a little rough place because of heavy lifting, heat, dirt, solvents, loud noises (things that tend to make people testy) but its not a political indicator.. I hope people know that. What is said in shops tends to say in shops and its said because you are about to bust blood vessels and have a heart attack doing something very difficult for comparatively little benefit and pay most of the time. I like to think wranglestars poltiical views are not accurate because he might have decided to do a video after 2 hours of log splitting or something. I know heavy labor like that, especially when you are working for yourself (and it ends up being 2$ an hour work) makes you kinda crazy for a while.


However if you decide to read a manifesto because of welding I seriously think you need more fun projects, radio, tv or something.. hard to write that one off. Manifesto is kind of shady. Chucke read one IIRC. That says something about him. Enough to end up here:

https://www.trackingterrorism.org/chatter/videos-popular-youtuber-chucke2009-reads-brenton-tarrants-manifesto-audio-book-claims-be-far

Not a great thing. Also, if you are a small buisness owner doing low to medium skilled work (he is not exactly designing stuff for national industrial might that requires ivy league graduates), minorities are your friends. Easy hire, decent worker, so long you are not a dick. Pretty sure if I ran a business near the southern border I would be speaking in Spanish.. why fight the trend and make enemies?

[KL27x]

I like to think wranglestars poltiical views are not accurate because he might have decided to do a video after 2 hours of log splitting or something.

This guy inserts his values and morality into almost every video. As I said before, I don't have to agree with someone to appreciate what they're good at. I don't know what this guy is good at other that preaching on a soapbox and self-promotion.

I remember watching him do something, explaining how and why his way was the best and he was a genius. Then 10 minutes into the video, you discover this is the first time he ever did it... But he watched some other people do it on YT. Honestly, his face just looks very punchable, to me.

Then, if you have clicked on one of his click-bait videos, they pop up on every related search.

[coppercone2]

well his way of doing it will be the best if russia misses by one nuke, before cancer

the entire premise of those videos all relies on poor missile guidance systems lol. of course my anticipation of the fate of those people is typically permanent shadows left on the wall, like everyone else. I do feel that he watched 'the road' a few too many times maybe...

farmers are not that self sufficient, you need the chemical industry. i don't think they plan on insect and rodent migrations etc

those videos are late night fun but kinda silly (tactical lumberjack)

[KL27x]

Another YT-maker… I suspect he's a bit of a jerk. But I watch his videos, because he makes good videos. He actually fired a shot at one of my comments, in one of his rant videos, cuz I mentioned a problem with his bandsaw. He decided to hang the motor on the bottom wheel, to take the place of a damper spring.

Like most people, he can't admit he's wrong. He changed out the bearings to larger ones. And now he's scrapping his bandsaw with no explanation to build a new one. Well, his unsolicited reasoning is that this 20" bandsaw he spent 300 hours building works perfectly fine and does everything he needs, except it's 6" too short. So the obvious thing to do is to build a smaller bandsaw rather than make the legs a little longer. And he will scrap the old one for the high value steel bits and all those parts that don't fit the new 12" bandsaw.

[KL27x]

F-ing google. Guess who just popped up on my YT feed?

Gotta fool 'em by writing W****l*r*s**r, or something.

[coppercone2]

youtube comments are borderline talking to corporate, you are informing people but also interfering with cash flows. (*be gentle*)

But it has to happen unless you want.. television. I get attacked for safety analysis on custom horrendous woodworking tools alot. Usually because people don't have the correct plane so they make some crazy shit. Precision woodworking is crazy without planes. You need alot. People figured out how to work good and design good planes over the last 4000 years. But you always get a razor blade on a 2by4 for some reason (god damn, open a magazine son! they tell you how to do it) . Its the oldest material.. if you reinvent the wheel make it nicer.. instead you get orcish war weapons. I saw the video was like 'oh yea this is unsafe, i hurt myself 3 times, but do this its awesome' (wheras you can spend 30$ on a nice plane to do the same freaking job and not look like a dick). Attack of the window washers.

I also don't like the chain saw blade on a angle grinder deal. But how much worse is it then chain saw sculpting (kind of an approved technique) IDK.

But its usually called trolling for some reason. More like saving tax money on ER visits from stupid carpenters.

[KL27x]

youtube comments are borderline talking to corporate, you are informing people but also interfering with cash flows. (*be gentle*)

Well, yeah, in-so-far as that person can censor and ban you. Dunno about cash flow. I suspect it's more about ego defense mechanisms in this particular case. 

The curved stone thing I am obsessed with, that is cash flow. That guy on reddit was actually intrigued by my video. He asked if I thought there was any money in it. Yeah, the money is in burying it and selling high profit synthetics. That money is being minted every day, and it funds our "education" on the subject.

Edit: I finally clicked that link and figured out what he did to get his show removed. Even though you said it, it didn't register. Wow. Yeah, I kinda want to erase this entire thread, now, and am sorry to have brought the name up, at all.

When you said he read a manifesto, I thought you meant to himself. And then he said something off-color on YT, who it seems like they are always overreacting and shutting down channels for sometimes minor or even incorrectly applied reasons. I assumed it wasn't that bad. Shocked.

[coppercone2]

I meant that it can have a corporate angle in the sense that they think they might loose regular viewers if you continuously prove the ideas they have are not well thought out/worth doing. Probably not a realistic situation because I would still watch the videos to see what goes wrong or what not to do or what is not enough but IDK if the hosts always know that. Could also get it thrown off a recommended channel list (i.e. dave jones wont endorse known trash, so you are closing a cash funnel off).. and I think the bad ideas might still be useful in a struggle but they should be known to be bad ideas.

And you can always demote something to be a prototyping method unsuitable for unattended/permanent use, if its easy enough.. even if the youtube video says its the end all construction method. (I guess thats where the ego comes in). They are still usually useful because they are cheap, I have not seen a total bad idea cash hole dumpster fire on youtube yet (maybe solar roads). I just put it in the bucket of ideas related to being stuck in the sahara and needing to make a motorcycle out of a car.

I guess they get mad when the situation dictates the A-team has to be trapped in a warehouse to make the idea viable rather it being the hottest new thing ever that everyone should switch to right now OMFG ITS THE BEST.

I imagine the header being slapped with a sideways orange-beige ribbon that says "Army survival guide" on it. Or almost every russian made youtube DIY video ever. "this idea becomes high quality after world war 3." Typical russian video : How to modify the ECU of stolen auto to correctly run on wood gas to plow farm when tractor breaks. (possibly a real spetznaz advisor's guide on subverting ukraine after its EMPed)

[coppercone2]

im waiting for wranglestar to cut some trees in night vision