Which soldering station? JBC, Metcal, Weller...

[Zero999]

I've used various expensive soldering stations at work: Weller, Antex JBC etc. and I find them pretty much the same performance wise. I also have a Hakko FX-888D and I don't find it inferior to the more premium soldering stations. To an extent you're just paying for the brand name. In my opinion, the only reason to pay more is one needs it to be calibrated,.

Just don't buy a dirt cheap station, like the one sold by Maplin, which is just a phase controller connected to a cheap mains soldering iron.

[Fsck]

Hi,

normally I'd say yes.
But I will rather not buy a used soldering-station. I've seen quite a few which had to take a lot of mechanical abuse (near junk experience ).
And the ones which did not, well, a few minutes ago a Metcal MX-PS5000 was sold for 350€, without any warranty of course.
The i-Con 1 is not that often at ebay, usually ends at ~200€+shipping if in reasonable condition. More often you can get the i-Con 2 with two Handpieces like the i-Tool and tweezers (which I don't need). For them I'd have to pay as much as for a new i-Con 1.

If I have to pay nearly 2/3 of the price of a new unit, I stick to the new one. No risk, no cleaning and a nice new original packed product.

when I mean used, I mean the "ancient" analog dial models that I listed in my 2nd post on page 1. metcal STSS's are pretty simple (manual for the "newer" auto-tip off variant says 1992) , and unless they've been seriously abused, will work fine for many more decades to come.

I'd expect the JBC AD2700 to be relatively simple as well, though I don't know about it's durability.

[SteveyG]

I've used various expensive soldering stations at work: Weller, Antex JBC etc. and I find them pretty much the same performance wise. I also have a Hakko FX-888D and I don't find it inferior to the more premium soldering stations. To an extent you're just paying for the brand name. In my opinion, the only reason to pay more is one needs it to be calibrated,.

Just don't buy a dirt cheap station, like the one sold by Maplin, which is just a phase controller connected to a cheap mains soldering iron.

Try a Metcal and you'll be surprised. There is a staggering difference compared to those with traditional heating elements with a separate tip and electronic feedback.

[mamalala]

metcal STSS's are pretty simple (manual for the "newer" auto-tip off variant says 1992) , and unless they've been seriously abused, will work fine for many more decades to come.

Ah, but there is a caveat. They use parts in the driver stage that are no longer available. So, if the driver FET blows (some VN.... type), you have to do a bit more than just a drop-in replacement. And even the final's are not that easy to come by these days.

While i agree that Metcals usually last a long time (and i have an STSS myself, plus one of my DIY versions), this is something that a potential buyer should be aware of. But in any case, as far as the Metcal 13.56 MHz system is concerned, i think that only a good JBC is comparable in performance. The latter pumping way much more power into the tip to achieve the same result, but anyways, same result nonetheless...

Once you worked with a statin that has such a thermal recovery, you simply don't want to go back, unless forced to.

Oh, and there is the nasty thing about the "older" Metcal stations (STSS, MX500, ...): It will never really switch off the supply. The transformer is always on, the actual switch only switching the secondary, after DC conversion and some regulation.... Be aware of that. But then, you can build your own as well, i have a thread here about that: https://www.eevblog.com/forum/projects/diy-metcal-13-56-mhz-rf-supply/] [url]https://www.eevblog.com/forum/projects/diy-metcal-13-56-mhz-rf-supply/[/url]

Greetings,

Chris

[DL8RI]

Hi,

I looked for a STSS on ebay, and it seemes to be even harder to get. And price-wise not very attractive.
A DIY-Station would be a nice solution and alternative. But right now, unfortunately, I don't have the Time and quite a few projects like a USB-Powered "Lab"-PSU waiting. Maybe later as a just-for-fun project.... And as a replacement for my Weller WS81.

@Hero999:
Thanks for your reply, but I have the impression you misunderstood the intention of this thread a little bit.

[Zero999]

Try a Metcal and you'll be surprised. There is a staggering difference compared to those with traditional heating elements with a separate tip and electronic feedback.

I have not tried it. It seem Going from what I've read, it doesn't seem like it's anything new, just a PTC resistor element with a constant power dissipation. The trouble is, the temperature is fixed, which I don't like the sound of. I like to be able to adjust my soldering iron.

[Nerull]

Hi,

I looked for a STSS on ebay, and it seemes to be even harder to get. And price-wise not very attractive.
A DIY-Station would be a nice solution and alternative. But right now, unfortunately, I don't have the Time and quite a few projects like a USB-Powered "Lab"-PSU waiting. Maybe later as a just-for-fun project.... And as a replacement for my Weller WS81.

@Hero999:
Thanks for your reply, but I have the impression you misunderstood the intention of this thread a little bit.

Depends on region, I would imagine. I just ordered an STSS supply off ebay in the US, and there were a bunch to choose from, all pretty cheap.

[Nerull]

Try a Metcal and you'll be surprised. There is a staggering difference compared to those with traditional heating elements with a separate tip and electronic feedback.

I have not tried it. It seem Going from what I've read, it doesn't seem like it's anything new, just a PTC resistor element with a constant power dissipation. The trouble is, the temperature is fixed, which I don't like the sound of. I like to be able to adjust my soldering iron.

Metcal stations use RF induction heating, with temperature regulated by the curie point of the tip. There is no temperature sense. Temperature is selected by using different tips.

The instant the tip starts to cool down from the curie point it begins absorbing more RF energy to heat, and it cannot overshoot. The direct heating of the tip results in very fast heatup and recovery times.

[robrenz]

Try a Metcal and you'll be surprised. There is a staggering difference compared to those with traditional heating elements with a separate tip and electronic feedback.

I have not tried it. It seem Going from what I've read, it doesn't seem like it's anything new, just a PTC resistor element with a constant power dissipation. The trouble is, the temperature is fixed, which I don't like the sound of. I like to be able to adjust my soldering iron.

Then you want a JBC, Metcal performance but adjustable temperature.

[DL8RI]

Depends on region, I would imagine. I just ordered an STSS supply off ebay in the US, and there were a bunch to choose from, all pretty cheap.

No chance
I'd estimate about $100 shipping plus customs here in Germany. Every measurement gear I got from overseas so far, I had to pick up from the local office of the customs authorities. And that in total would more or less ruin a cheap unit from the states.

Well, I'll buy the ERSA-Station and compare it with the JBC at work. ERSA does marketing with "Performance like a cartridge, but with interchangable Tips", one User here had the chance to test both and prefers the ERSA before a JBC. That makes me curious. Let's see...

And at least between all this "High-End"-soldering-stations, theres not that much difference in performance. The level is quite high and after that it's more a personal thing. Maybe I'm wrong and if I build myself a Metcal-Supply, I'll only use this one, but I don't believe it's such a big jump like if you compare it with a Hakko 936 (as I learned here: today FX-888). But that Hakko is a rather cheap Hobby-tool.

[SteveyG]

Try a Metcal and you'll be surprised. There is a staggering difference compared to those with traditional heating elements with a separate tip and electronic feedback.

I have not tried it. It seem Going from what I've read, it doesn't seem like it's anything new, just a PTC resistor element with a constant power dissipation. The trouble is, the temperature is fixed, which I don't like the sound of. I like to be able to adjust my soldering iron.

I think you've been reading the wrong information. 

[Zero999]

Then you want a JBC, Metcal performance but adjustable temperature.

Used JBC before and I don't find it any better than Hakko - you're paying for the name.

[Fsck]

Then you want a JBC, Metcal performance but adjustable temperature.

Used JBC before and I don't find it any better than Hakko - you're paying for the name.

Exactly which JBC have you used? There are some older wimpy 55W models. I dare you to use their HD model with the giganto tips, have it sink its full 250W and not be impressed.

[Zero999]

Exactly which JBC have you used? There are some older wimpy 55W models. I dare you to use their HD model with the giganto tips, have it sink its full 250W and not be impressed.

It was a 55W model but you've got to compare like with like. Of course any higher power soldering iron will melt solder more quickly than a 60W iron, regardless of the brand so it's a silly comparison.

[Fsck]

Exactly which JBC have you used? There are some older wimpy 55W models. I dare you to use their HD model with the giganto tips, have it sink its full 250W and not be impressed.

It was a 55W model but you've got to compare like with like. Of course any higher power soldering iron will melt solder more quickly than a 60W iron, regardless of the brand so it's a silly comparison.

like != like when you're talking about different technologies. I'd expect my metcal stss 40W (max, dependent on tip) to be pretty close to a JBC 55W, the metcals use a pretty significant thermal mass for their tips while JBC is all about minimal thermal mass and high power. the stss 40W stomps on a Hakko FX-888 and yet has >25W less output power.

[zapta]

Solder power and technology are implementation details.

What matter is how well it does the job and how much it costs.

[peter.mitchell]

Try a Metcal and you'll be surprised. There is a staggering difference compared to those with traditional heating elements with a separate tip and electronic feedback.

I have not tried it. It seem Going from what I've read, it doesn't seem like it's anything new, just a PTC resistor element with a constant power dissipation. The trouble is, the temperature is fixed, which I don't like the sound of. I like to be able to adjust my soldering iron.

Then you want a JBC, Metcal performance but adjustable temperature.

Metcal has adjustable temperature, it just is a little less conventional - it requires different carts for different temps.
That said, I think it is no issue, usually you use low temp on small things, med temp on med things and high time on big things, so buy one small 500/600f cart, one med 700f cart and one big 800f cart.

Carts are cheap anyway, i don't get the big deal?

[ElektroQuark]

That is no how Metcals are designed to work. You don't need a higher temp cartridge for bigger things: you need a bigger cartridge.
Different temperature cartridges are targeted to different PCB sustrate bases or component temperature tolerances.

[neslekkim]

Exactly which JBC have you used? There are some older wimpy 55W models. I dare you to use their HD model with the giganto tips, have it sink its full 250W and not be impressed.

It was a 55W model but you've got to compare like with like. Of course any higher power soldering iron will melt solder more quickly than a 60W iron, regardless of the brand so it's a silly comparison.

like != like when you're talking about different technologies. I'd expect my metcal stss 40W (max, dependent on tip) to be pretty close to a JBC 55W, the metcals use a pretty significant thermal mass for their tips while JBC is all about minimal thermal mass and high power. the stss 40W stomps on a Hakko FX-888 and yet has >25W less output power.

55w?, i don't even know how many watts my JBC is, I have the 2BB and the DIT, but my hakko I think is 65watt, but it doesnt help since my JBC is much faster and responsive than that one..

[peter.mitchell]

That is no how Metcals are designed to work. You don't need a higher temp cartridge for bigger things: you need a bigger cartridge.
Different temperature cartridges are targeted to different PCB substrate bases or component temperature tolerances.

Yes and no.
If you have a larger thermal gradient, the heat transfers quicker, so whilst larger tips can transfer more heat because they have more thermal inertia, contact area, and they are generally the hottest temps in their series.
While the bigger tips do help significantly, higher temps will heat the joint enough before the heat disperses into the board, so you can remove large components quickly without heating the board even minorly.
Additionally, the bigger cartridge can produce the same amount of heat energy as the smaller one, it just happens that the bigger one can transfer heat into the join much more effectively.

[Dago]

Exactly which JBC have you used? There are some older wimpy 55W models. I dare you to use their HD model with the giganto tips, have it sink its full 250W and not be impressed.

It was a 55W model but you've got to compare like with like. Of course any higher power soldering iron will melt solder more quickly than a 60W iron, regardless of the brand so it's a silly comparison.

like != like when you're talking about different technologies. I'd expect my metcal stss 40W (max, dependent on tip) to be pretty close to a JBC 55W, the metcals use a pretty significant thermal mass for their tips while JBC is all about minimal thermal mass and high power. the stss 40W stomps on a Hakko FX-888 and yet has >25W less output power.

55w?, i don't even know how many watts my JBC is, I have the 2BB and the DIT, but my hakko I think is 65watt, but it doesnt help since my JBC is much faster and responsive than that one..

The CD-B station can do up to 130W peak. Which is a major factor why JBCs are so fast and responsive.

[DL8RI]

Hi,

out of curiosity I looked at my watch how long my JBC at work took to come up from Hibernate (it was set to 340°C), it's about 6 seconds.
Thats nearly the same Time a ERSA i-Con 1 needs to heat up to 340, as seen in a Youtube-Video. OK it was set to a higher Temp (360) and therefore "overruns" the 340. But I think it's quite impressive for a "classical" Tip+Heater-Station.

I don't give that much about numbers, but just wanted to share it with you.

Meaning: It is one criterion of mine in this special case. But for the real work, well, I don't give a much about.
Especially if it's so close by. Everything between 20sec and zero is promising a good heat transmission.

Solder power and technology are implementation details.

What matter is how well it does the job and how much it costs.

Of course. But it's interesting and a nice discussion, don't you think?

[uoficowboy]

Try a Metcal and you'll be surprised. There is a staggering difference compared to those with traditional heating elements with a separate tip and electronic feedback.

I have not tried it. It seem Going from what I've read, it doesn't seem like it's anything new, just a PTC resistor element with a constant power dissipation. The trouble is, the temperature is fixed, which I don't like the sound of. I like to be able to adjust my soldering iron.

Then you want a JBC, Metcal performance but adjustable temperature.

Just wanted to add in that I agree here.

At a previous job they had a JBC station and a number of Metcal stations. The Metcals were MX-500 bases with a couple different handles - MX-RM3E, MX-H2-UF, and MX-PTZ. The JBC base station was an HD (I think) and with three handles - PA120-A, T210-A, and T245-A.

I strongly prefer the JBC over the Metcal, having spent many, many hours with both. The cord on the Metcal is heavy and gets in the way, while the JBC cords are lightweight and much less bothersome. The JBC tweezers are just far, far superior to the Metcals for tight work. Both irons regulate temperature nicely, and both have a nice range of tips available. But to me the JBC wins based on smaller, lighter handles with lighter cords and adjustable temperature (a feature that is only occasionally needed - but when you need it you need it).

[peter.mitchell]

The cord on the Metcal is heavy and gets in the way, while the JBC cords are lightweight and much less bothersome.

This is no longer an issue on Metcal handpieces such as the Metcal MX-H1-AV Advanced Hand-piece. It is lighter than it's predecessor yet is made from aluminium instead of plastic! The cord on the handpeice is about the same as the JBC, but it is much longer, allowing you to use the "over the shoulder" trick to make the cord seem even lighter (i learned this from welding).

[DL8RI]

Hi!

Just ordered the ERSA i-Con 1.

I will write something about it as soon as it arrives.